Lazorous Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Ya . . . too bad they didn't have access to Blizzard's source code or everything might have been in already. What you propose only works in open source environments where the playing field is level. MMO code blocks aren't open source nor are they resold kits that a developer can just go shop for and plug in. It gets created from scratch. The good ones make it look easy which for some strange reason convinces some that it just magically happens. Good grief. [edit] Oops, they use differents engines. Well that complicates things. Don't forget that everyone is a programming genius because they read a few articles about games and computers. That gives them all the knowledge necessary to critique the programming methods of every software/game they find that doesn't meet their interests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KippTabor Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) just wanted to let you know i saw your post and will acknowledge it is right because no one else here will I will. He's right. The people who keep sticking their fingers in their ears while shouting "BUT THIS IS 2012 SO I EXPECT MOARRRR!" are clueless and only reveal their lack of programming knowledge and logical reasoning skills. Cars have been around for over a hundred years and they still break down. Even very expensive cars. I don't think they really expect more - I think that they think that they will gain forum cred with the other "concern" trolls, by pretending to be too good for any new MMO that emerges. Edited January 31, 2012 by KippTabor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloro Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Ya . . . too bad they didn't have access to Blizzard's source code or everything might have been in already. What you propose only works in open source environments where the playing field is level. Other than the engine and it's additions, MMO code isn't open source nor is it available as resold kits that a developer can just go shop for and plug in. It gets created from scratch. The good ones make it look easy which for some strange reason convinces some that it just magically happens. Good grief. So many people don't understand this! Yes, WoW has a lot of nifty stuff in it. That nifty stuff took years of effort and tens of millions of dollars to implement. Just because Blizzard put the time and money into it, that doesn't mean Bioware can just push a button and magically recreate the same designs. Even if they could do so, that's assuming that WoW is a perfect game, and moreover it's assuming that recreating a perfect game would be remotely worthwhile. I wouldn't assume any of that. But then, the real point is... even if they could copy WoW's designs, and even if they WANTED TO, the code wouldn't be remotely compatible. You can't just pull the AH (or any other feature) out of WoW and pop it into this game. That isn't possible in any meaningful sense. Even if you skipped the design phase (which would be insane, and which Bioware absolutely does not do), ALL the coding would have to be done from scratch, and all the testing and implementation would have to be done from scratch, exactly as if WoW had never existed. Armchair designers generally don't get this. They point to a feature in a game they like and issue imperious demands that the devs "copy and paste", because to them, it's really that simple. Sadly, in reality, things don't work like that at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazorous Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Armchair designers generally don't get this. They point to a feature in a game they like and issue imperious demands that the devs "copy and paste", because to them, it's really that simple. Sadly, in reality, things don't work like that at all. Lol, pretty much all the whiners that want things right away, on these forums, are all "Armchair designers". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloro Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Lol, pretty much all the whiners that want things right away, on these forums, are all "Armchair designers". Heh, almost everyone who posts with ideas about how MMOs can be improved are armchair designers, myself included. Few actually care enough about the topic to seek out theory though (e.g. read books by Bartle/Koster/Wright; read gaming design sites like Gamasutra; read blogs like Psychochild's, etc). Instead, most just assume that playing games is enough to make them an expert in all facets of game design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I aplogize for having two different revs of the post. I went back to do a quick edit and didn't realize it would get so hammered during the edit. sry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jndca Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Ya . . . too bad they didn't have access to Blizzard's source code or everything might have been in already. What you propose only works in open source environments where the playing field is level. Other than the engine and it's additions, MMO code isn't open source nor is it available as resold kits that a developer can just go shop for and plug in. It gets created from scratch. The good ones make it look easy which for some strange reason convinces some that it just magically happens. Good grief. [edit] Oops, they use differents engines. Well that complicates things. QFT X2 Again, i log onto my main server and still see at least 100 people on average running around the imperial and rebel fleets. No fail for you, BW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazorous Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) Heh, almost everyone who posts with ideas about how MMOs can be improved are armchair designers, myself included. Few actually care enough about the topic to seek out theory though (e.g. read books by Bartle/Koster/Wright; read gaming design sites like Gamasutra; read blogs like Psychochild's, etc). Instead, most just assume that playing games is enough to make them an expert in all facets of game design. Posting improvement ideas is one thing, and are valid within reason. But those "insisting" certain improvements be made their way, right away, with no exceptions, are the ones that need a slap in the face. IE: "I will unsub unless these 10 things are done within the 15 days before my sub expires". Edited January 31, 2012 by Lazorous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWYYZERDD Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 The counter argument of course being that YOU don't have any proof either. No really arguing like this works. I've seen it. Over. And over. And over. The difference is that he's not insisting that it's not failing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littletza Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 These threads make me giggle. Never have I seen so much baseless hate for a game since MMOs began with Ultima Online and even then there was not this much vitriolic rhetoric towards a game. So many claiming that it is a failure. That the game had the worst launch in mmo history. Yet I have seen no basis for any of these claims because I played every major mmo launch and I can compare it to every single one and this is one of the smoothest I have been in. Agreed Did you ever have the "pleasure" of experiencing the Anarchy (offline) Online launch? btw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoUZeroEnna Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I get an FPS that averages 95-100. I chose the V-Synch option thou to tied my FPS into my monitors refresh rate and the game runs even smoother now since my Refresh is at 60. The game runs perfectly smooth for me on all planets except Illum and on Illum my average FPS is around 25 but it does have spikes that go down to 10. That is a serious problem and does need to be addressed but since that is only one planet I know that the error is in the coding of the planet itself and is contained to there. It should take about a month to fix that and I am not really worried because I know it will be fixed. Some of you act like that since a few things are not working as intended now that they will never be fixed or addressed. I would like you to go back to the first patch notes for WoW and look at just how many things were fixed in the first patch and how many things were still broken after that first patch. And then remember how many things were promised at launch that were scrubbed before launch, BGS for example. I always want things I enjoy to become better but I will not bash a company senselessly that is putting forth its better effort to address every issue and fix it. They are not magical beings from the 7th dimension that can wave a wand while they ride their inter-dimensional unicorns and have everything fixed before it even happened. It takes time people, patience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surakis Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Here is a big indicator for me. In other Forums for other game launches I have been a part of over the last 15 years, I have never seen this much hate, or "I Quit" talk right out of the gate. To me that is bad any way you slice it. I don't need to see numbers to know the overall vibe in SWTOR is bad. Just visit the WoW forums. There is no other game forum with as much QQing and "or else" threads. It takes about 20 haters to flood and you'll notice many of the same names poping up over and over and over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyIommi Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Not to join in on the SWTOR has failed crowd but I have seen ONE NORTH AMERICAN SERVER hit heavy load in the past 3 weeks and I play every day for 6-12 hours a day. FATMAN had a que on sunday night. Took me 5 minutes to get in. Swiftsure was full as well IIRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyIommi Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 There is no flaw in that comparison. What you're comparing to are differences in engines and graphics. You can argue the game could have better graphics or a better engine. Those two items of concern were not the main topic of my comparison, because we're talking about the variety of complaints to an MMO. Complaints to a new MMO, are not new, and will never be. The similarity is in the genre of the product. It's an MMO, so you must compare with MMO development patterns. And as far as MMO patterns go, this has done relatively well. Compare server downtimes, compare stability, compare glitches, compare content. Any seasoned software developer can explain to you the possible issues that can occur with MMO's that creates such a diversion in results and bugs. This is not a simple First Person Shooter with high end graphics, or any other single player game. And even those games, nowadays, still don't always release with 100% perfection. Look at Dead Island... bugs galore. By your standard, there shouldn't be any at this day and age right? If you're comparing to Rift, you do realize Rift launched with a lot of server issues right? Same concept. Server issues and glitches will still exist in programming regardless of what year it is. STO was released only a few years ago... yet they started off with questionable graphics, bugs, and unpleasing planets. They've since improved a lot of that. And by your logic, why do vehicles in 2011 still need oil changes? That was so 1990s and earlier. Why do we still need oil changes? Shouldn't technology have caught up and eliminated all those inconveniences? It just goes to show that regardless of time, there are still basics of those technologies that still need to be observed. I'm not saying Swtor is perfect. But to believe that everything should be done your specific way and bug free because it's a few years later just shows you don't have much knowledge in the world of software development. Bugs in coding don't magically disappear with time. I'd go on with more programming examples, but I feel you're just going to continue a closed minded view, so my time would be wasted. Rift also had HORRIBLE optimization. Trion fixed it over time. BW will do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloro Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Posting improvement ideas is one thing, and are valid within reason. But those "insisting" certain improvements be made their way, right away, with no exceptions, are the ones that need a slap in the face. IE: "I will unsub unless these 10 things are done within the 15 days before my sub expires". Agreed. Entitlement and ignorance are a nasty combination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazorous Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Agreed. Entitlement and ignorance are a nasty combination. And welcome to 50% of the posts. I conclude it's 50% because I said so. And what I say is fact. amIdoingItright? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoUZeroEnna Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 You are definitely doing it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djsmileey Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 just wanted to let you know i saw your post and will acknowledge it is right because no one else here will I wanna see your source on this source of resource. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HyCatra Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I think you need a basic business and economics lecture. Box retailers like Best Buy and Gamestop buy the boxes for 40$ and receive a profit of 20$ when they sell them. That means EA only receive 40$ for each box sold. And, not that many bought the CE, not nearly enough to recuperate the 200 million development estimate from box sales alone. No, EA needs massive subscriber numbers for at least one year before they can make positive economic profits. Having worked retail in a software store, i know for a fact that stores do not make a 33% margin on software. 6-10% is more like it. All the money in game stores that doesnt come from selling used games/consoles comes from accessories which usually are sold at a 100% mark up, giving a 50% margin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHeadCapper Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) It's easy to make baseless claims but without proof most reasonable people will never take you seriously. I saw some guy claiming SWTOR lost 65% of it's subscribers the other day, the guy of course had no proof. This ^^ It's kind of funny seeing the tin foil hat brigade out. Edited February 1, 2012 by TheHeadCapper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NRGMX Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 lol @ wow trolls , this game has issues like all the others , but they cant afford to sit out and ignore it , i too play on a heavy populated server , but alot of my friends just lost interest and stopped and im seeing either new players or alts starting up alot but it dont make the situation any better , if they a loosing interest just as quick as picking it up . then yes , it needs looked at ! well c how things go after everyone has played out their 60 days . its still way to early to confirm failure ! (btw: bliztard lied about their subs and were caught out with it last year . so w/e u read or was told , was lies !) its just the way it is > Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skoll Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 This ^^ It's kind of funny seeing the tin foil hat brigade out. These people are too paranoid to use tinfoil unless they've manufactured it themselves. Who knows where that store-bought tinfoil has been or if it's been tampered with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmerus Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Ok, you're just rambling on about what is considered "good" to you. It's an arbitrary concept that you can't even define. I asked you what specifics you want to be used as defining good and you haven't answered. Because based on my definition of "good", I would say it runs good for a lot of people. It may not run "GREAT", perse. See, I can be arbitrary too. And as far as I can tell, those youtube examples run their settings at least medium to high. The ones that claim Max settings are not running them in Low. Perhaps you're mixing up youtube resolution with in game resolution. And just because Ilum is giving some people issues, it does not define the state of the game. That is not the only place people go to. The comparison should be reviewed as a whole within the game, which includes quests. Ilum's design is questionable at the moment and is likely still due for more patches. It is a relatively unstable area to base the entire game's performance on, relative to each person's system. http://forum.i3d.net/attachments/offtopic-english/943227833d1305709183-english-spam-thread-not-sure-if-troll-just-very-stupid-28n1299498207760-29.jpg If you can't run the group content flawlessly then why do you tell everyone you can? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcomax Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Bioware is currently projected to have 13.7 million subscribers by June 2012. LOL, 13.7 Million? I'll put the ranch they don't ever cap 4 million, and if they go above 3 million I'll be very shocked. This game is set to fail, it's only a matter of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshalleck Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 LOL, 13.7 Million? I'll put the ranch they don't ever cap 4 million, and if they go above 3 million I'll be very shocked. This game is set to fail, it's only a matter of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts