Varghjerta Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 If you tell me I can't roll Need on something I want from the FP then why would I bother helping you run the FP? So you can roll Need on what you want while I have to pass on what I want? No thanks. I would rather help players run FPs who don't mind me rolling Need on items I want while they also roll Need on items they want as well - it's called helping each other out. All you want to do is use me for what you want and I would get nothing I want out of it. That is like saying to the kid in the sandbox that are trying to keep all the toys from the rest of the children but he wants it all so that is ok. And ofcourse you can roll need on all that you want but don't get surprised if people uses the ignore function aswell when you clearly do not show any courtesy to other players in youre group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crica Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) That is like saying to the kid in the sandbox that are trying to keep all the toys from the rest of the children but he wants it all so that is ok. And ofcourse you can roll need on all that you want but don't get surprised if people uses the ignore function aswell when you clearly do not show any courtesy to other players in youre group. No, I am asking the kid in the sandbox to help me dig a hole in the sand and we both get to roll the Need dice for an equal chance to win the item at the bottom of the hole that we both want to use. While he is asking the kid in the sandbox to help him dig a hole in the sand so he can have the item at the bottom of the hole that they both want to use. Edited February 1, 2012 by crica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicalPremise Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) If I am going to use it and you are going to use it then we both need it. If we both help each other out then we both get an equal chance to win what we want to use by us both rolling Need for it. Yes, that is how you help each other out. All you want to do is use me for what you want while I don't get anything I want. No thanks. *sigh* You're not going to use it. You're going to give it to your companion, and in 2 levels you're going to replace it, and yet I'm the villain? Spare me. Edited February 1, 2012 by LogicalPremise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crica Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 You're not going to use it. I am not going to sell it, I am not going to RE it, I am not going to give it away and I am not going to throw it away. So, yes, I am going to use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varghjerta Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) No, I am asking the kid in the sandbox to help me dig a hole in the sand and we both get to roll the Need dice for an equal chance to win the item at the bottom of the hole that we both want to use. While he is asking the kid in the sandbox to help him dig a hole in the sand so only he can have the item at the bottom of the hole that we both want to use. Actually in a RNG game as this is both kids have equal opportunity getting something they want from that hole. But what happens after they uncover that item is where we differ in opinion You anything that drops and because i can need i will need Me if the kid/s that helped me dig that hole, and that item will help the kid/s to dig the hole faster with some other kids the next time , they do get priority. Edited February 1, 2012 by Varghjerta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crica Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 what happens after they uncover that item I already told you - they both want to use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crica Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) Me if the kid/s that helped me dig that hole, and that item will help the kid/s to dig the hole faster with some other kids the next time , they do get priority. If I don't get equal dibs (IE: equal chance to win it) on an item I want to use that I would have to equally help work for, why would I help work for it? No thanks. Edited February 1, 2012 by crica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varghjerta Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) If I don't get equal dibs (IE: equal chance to win it) on an item I want to use that I would have to equally help work for, why would I help work for it? No thanks. Well i can easily say we differ way in our opnions And i basicly find youre standpoint, as a person i do hope (but i know i will) to not encounter youre kind in instances ,This is not an attack onto you as a person i do respect youre opinion but i do just do not agree with it Edited February 1, 2012 by Varghjerta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crica Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) Well i can easily say we differ way in our opnions And i basicly find youre standpoint as a person i do hope (but i know i will) to not encounter in instances ,This is not an attack onto you as a person i do respect youre opinion but i do not agree with it And I do not agree with using players to get items I want. If they help me get the item to drop then we all get an equal chance to win the item because we all equally worked for it - I don't use people for my own gain, I ask people to help me so we ALL can gain. Edited February 1, 2012 by crica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash-X Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 And I do not agree with using players to get items I want. If they help me get the item to drop then we all get an equal chance to win the item because we all equally worked for it - I don't use people for my own gain, I ask people to help me so we ALL can gain. See if I'm a healer (and I am.) and something drops specifically for my class and you are some DPS class I will not be happy about that. I feel like I did the entire FP for nothing and that I was being used just for healing. No I don't think you should get equal rights to my healing item that dropped..just like I should not get equal rights to something that dropped for your class. I think players have to be considerate. Sometimes people will do FP over and over again for one drop, as I have. Luckily enough doing Esseles like 4 times just so I can go to Coruscant in a cool robe, luckily for me the 4th or so time it finally dropped and the rest of the Puggers rolled greed and I need and said grats. If that 4th time the item dropped and some Trooper rolled on it I would likely just say F it and log out. So far in all the FPs I've done I have never run into someone needing for a companion or mods unless they have said so before the roll and everyone was usually fine with it. I understand your POV. I do...but understand that if you roll on someone else's class and they are rolling need on it also that you are making them mad or frustrated. Big deal? Well with the instances not being cross server you never know when you might need that person again. I dunno, that's just my opinion. When I PUG I try not to piss people off and usually make a few friends on the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crica Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) If I'm a healer (and I am.) and something drops specifically for my class and you are some DPS class I will not be happy about that. I feel like I did the entire FP for nothing What? You helped run the FP for an equal chance to win the items you want to use, just like I did. How is that for nothing? The only way it would be for nothing is if you helped run the FP and did NOT get an equal chance to win the items you wanted to use and you had to PASS the items you want to use to everyone else who helped instead. Why would you help run a FP if you don't get an equal chance to win the items you want from it? Edited February 1, 2012 by crica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crica Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) When I PUG I try not to piss people off and usually make a few friends on the way. When I PuG, I give everyone who helps me run a FP an equal chance to win the items they want to use since they equally helped make them drop...that ALWAYS makes friends along the way. Edited February 1, 2012 by crica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash-X Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 What? You ran the FP for an equal chance to win an item you want to use, just like I did. How is that for nothing? The only way it would be for nothing is if you ran the FP and did NOT get an equal chance to win an item you wanted to use and you had to PASS it to me to use! How would you be using an item you can't use exactly? Selling it? For an NPC companion character? No I did run the FP for nothing. Because the item dropped and someone that didn't even need it as much as me took it. I guess since I am a healer most people will not roll on my class stuff because I've never had it happened in all the time I've played the game. I think it is against MMO-etiquette and I guess all the PUGers I've run into think the same. My advice is always roll greed on something that is not my class. Why? Because I clearly only want it for less important purposes, while the person rolling need is actually going to use that item and maybe cherish it if it is an orange (especially so) if you don't need the item don't roll need on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crica Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 How would you be using an item you can't use I only want items I can and will use, not the items I can't or will not use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eternalnight Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Why do people keep repeating this same nonsense again and again? All you want to do is use me for what you want while I don't get anything I want. You don't get anything? Really? Have you ever seen anyone suggesting loot rules where one person could roll everything and the other could roll nothing? I certainly have not. Now, if I suggest loot rules that say no needing for companions (at least not when someone needs the same item for their main character), and the loot rules are same for everyone in the group, how does that mean you don't get "anything"? If no needing for companions is allowed then we both loose our chance to get certain types of companion gear, and at the same time we both get a better chance of getting gear for our main characters, and since we can't know in advance which items will drop, we both have the same chance to get something. So what is wrong with that? Or nevermind "what is wrong with that?" Just please... Can someone, anyone, please tell me, how does this work: Apparently: We both get better chance to get gear for our main character = You get nothing ??? Ok? Makes sense? This is why I can't take the 'pro need all' crowd seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crica Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) someone that didn't even need it as much as me took it. As much as you??? How in the world do you need a video game item MORE that we BOTH can and will use? Not only that, but why in the world would you think everyone wants to help you run a FP so YOU can have the item instead of you both rolling Need to see who wins it when you both want to use it?? Edited February 1, 2012 by crica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crica Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 We both get better chance to get gear for our main character = You get nothing Correct - because I do not need any gear that you want me to have. I only need the gear you do not want me to have, so why would I help run the FP with you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjmc Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 No I did run the FP for nothing. Because the item dropped and someone that didn't even need it as much as me took it.If you needed it, then you should have pressed need and they wouldn't have been able to "take it". You would have both rolled and had an equal chance to receive it. Because I clearly only want it for less important purposes, while the person rolling need is actually going to use that item and maybe cherish it if it is an orange (especially so) if you don't need the item don't roll need on it. Just because you think the purpose is less important doesn't mean that the other person does. Since you disagree on relative importance, the dice get to be the final decider. Orange gear can be cherished by more than just the class that benefits most from the armor mod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash-X Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Why do people keep repeating this same nonsense again and again? You don't get anything? Really? Have you ever seen anyone suggesting loot rules where one person could roll everything and the other could roll nothing? I certainly have not. Now, if I suggest loot rules that say no needing for companions (at least not when someone needs the same item for their main character), and the loot rules are same for everyone in the group, how does that mean you don't get "anything"? If no needing for companions is allowed then we both loose our chance to get certain types of companion gear, and at the same time we both get a better chance of getting gear for our main characters, and since we can't know in advance which items will drop, we both have the same chance to get something. So what is wrong with that? Or nevermind "what is wrong with that?" Just please... Can someone, anyone, please tell me, how does this work: Apparently: We both get better chance to get gear for our main character = You get nothing ??? Ok? Makes sense? This is why I can't take the 'pro need all' crowd seriously. Makes no sense to me. Smuggler coat drops, Sentinel rolls need on it and gets it. Sent robe drops, Smuggler gets it. Yay? You both screwed each other from gear you both could have used. Congrats I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash-X Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 If you needed it, then you should have pressed need and they wouldn't have been able to "take it". You would have both rolled and had an equal chance to receive it. Just because you think the purpose is less important doesn't mean that the other person does. Since you disagree on relative importance, the dice get to be the final decider. Orange gear can be cherished by more than just the class that benefits most from the armor mod. I don't care about 'equal' chance on the roll. By your logic there should not even be a need/greed system. Just roll your dice and everyone gets their 'equal' shot. Why have a need/greed system then? To me the equal chance is rolling into the FP and hoping my piece drops, if Trooper armor drops then he gets it and I don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjmc Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Smuggler coat drops, Sentinel rolls need on it and gets it. Sent robe drops, Smuggler gets it. Yay? You both screwed each other from gear you both could have used. Congrats I guess. In the first case both people needed the coat (and pressed need), one of them got it. 50% of the people got what they wanted. In the second case, either the sentinel didn't need it and the smuggler did (and smuggler got it) or they both did and 50% of the people got what they wanted. (Or neither wanted it so it didn't really matter). In any case, both people got something they wanted (or rolled fairly on the only item that either of them wanted). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crica Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) Makes no sense to me. Smuggler coat drops, Sentinel rolls need on it and gets it. Sent robe drops, Smuggler gets it. Yay? You both screwed each other from gear you both could have used. Congrats I guess Depends on what they consider important to them personally, doesn't it? If I do not want to use any gear that someone offers me from a FP run, then I have no reason to help them run it other then out of the kindness of my heart. Since they are not offering to run the FP with me out of the kindness of their heart, why are they expecting me to do so? Offer me an equal chance to win the gear that I want to use and you will have my help to run the FP. Offer me the opportunity to pass YOU the gear that I want to use and I will just look at you funny. Edited February 1, 2012 by crica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crica Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Just roll your dice and everyone gets their 'equal' shot. Why have a need/greed system then? Need is there for when players do want to use the gear. Greed is there for when players don't want to use the gear. Pass is there for when players don't want the gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eternalnight Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Correct - because I do not need any gear that you want me to have. I only need the gear you do not want me to have, so why would I help run the FP with you? And that is your problem. On a situation where you have fully geared main character, you would personally benefit from loot rules that allow needing for companions. But that's just in that one situation. That's not a reason to make it apply to everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjmc Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Need is there for when players do want to use the gear. Greed is there for when players don't want to use the gear. Pass is there for when players don't want the gear. That sounds like a good summation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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