Bionixx Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 /resumethread What's wrong with the MOBA genre other than being one of the fastest growing player vs player genres in the past few years? What is being proposed is not impossible to do in the game. You can code for what is being asked. I just think that we can all agree that Ilum isn't working out in its current form. Personally, I think this idea about objective pushing and a timer on the battle instead of it being endless is just the best idea suggested, not the only possible solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viscerus Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Great Idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shivus Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Bioware, please implement this. Even if it's not the grand open world pvp vision you had, it's leagues better than what you have in place right now, and likely far better than anything you can do to "fix" the currently broken beyond repair system. The most important thing. It will be FUN and not an incredibly dull grind just to get valor and finish dailies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee-Jay Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 Bioware, please implement this. Even if it's not the grand open world pvp vision you had, it's leagues better than what you have in place right now, and likely far better than anything you can do to "fix" the currently broken beyond repair system. The most important thing. It will be FUN and not an incredibly dull grind just to get valor and finish dailies. Yes, I think it's important that the battle can end at some point. World PvP needs a little directing and encouragement without being too "force upon". The cooldown period should depend on how long an actual battle takes. If battles take as long as early Alterac Vaelly games, a 6-10 hour cooldown might be appropriate too. It would make victory feel more meaningful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryantp Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Would love a MOBA style type of game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bionixx Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Would love a MOBA style type of game. I know, right? It would be a great addition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostburns Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Blizzard was thinking of doing a DoTA type bg in Mists of Pandaria, so we'll see how it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wintro Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 this sounds like an amazing idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenonParsec Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 way better idea than the dude who proposed putting a PvE world boss encounter in the middle of Ilum. Me likey. Will BW deliver? Doubtful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee-Jay Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 I know, right? It would be a great addition. So great in fact, that I feel like continuing this thread, despite someone already having stated /end thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virtus-Celeritas Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I would love to see something like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikeydecoy Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Sounds like a great idea to implement, anything really over current Ilum. My only discrepancy is the 500 credit cost for RPGs. Sure, it doesn't sound like much, but it will add up. If a walker can sustain 10 hits, that's 5000 credits worth of RPGs. And spread across different players, that still isn't a lot. But if you buy in large quantities, it just seems like you shouldn't have to. Some players don't have the time to farm credits/warzones/do dailies or have any consistent stream of decent credits, and it could add up over time. It could also discourage said players from picking up RPGs in the first place, or lazy players thinking that they shouldn't have to waste credits if someone else can just destroy the walker instead (it is, after all, large scale world pvp). Now I feel this is a minor issue, it certainly isn't a lot of money as I said, it's just that even the minimal cost as it is seems unnecessary. I would recommend something along the lines of free RPGs you can pick up at the base, but only hold a certain amount at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) Why stop with Ilum, turn this entire game's PvP into Dota. Each warzone you start with basic equipment, and as you kill people/NPCs or complete objectives you get money, which you can use at the shop in the respawn zone to buy gear. Oh wait, no hamster wheel grind involved, just fun. That'll never work! Edited January 31, 2012 by EternalFinality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cokn Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 So... what about low population servers? How does this help them? Is it just a steamroll with one side constantly breaking the other team's base? What about REALLY unbalanced servers? This just gives incentive for the over-populated realm to get even MORE stuff from Ilum then before as they will now run these games unopposed. This sounds like a fun game honestly but the problems with Ilum are a microcosm of the entire game with realms being unbalanced. I play on a server where there are NO pvp queues at 50, zero, nadda, squat. I have been queued for roughly 12 hours straight on a Saturday and not gotten any pops and I *still* have my "Complete a Warzone Match" quest in my log from when I hit 50 several weeks ago. If they want to do this, I say make a new Warzone with this mechanic where there is more control over the population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee-Jay Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 Sounds like a great idea to implement, anything really over current Ilum. My only discrepancy is the 500 credit cost for RPGs. Sure, it doesn't sound like much, but it will add up. If a walker can sustain 10 hits, that's 5000 credits worth of RPGs. And spread across different players, that still isn't a lot. But if you buy in large quantities, it just seems like you shouldn't have to. Some players don't have the time to farm credits/warzones/do dailies or have any consistent stream of decent credits, and it could add up over time. It could also discourage said players from picking up RPGs in the first place, or lazy players thinking that they shouldn't have to waste credits if someone else can just destroy the walker instead (it is, after all, large scale world pvp). Now I feel this is a minor issue, it certainly isn't a lot of money as I said, it's just that even the minimal cost as it is seems unnecessary. I would recommend something along the lines of free RPGs you can pick up at the base, but only hold a certain amount at a time. Well you can argue about the cost of RPGs. I consider their cost more of an anti--inflation mechanism and something that should stop people from being overly wasteful with them without limiting their use. I don't really care if they're 100 credits or 10. I just don't think they should be free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee-Jay Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 So... what about low population servers? How does this help them? Is it just a steamroll with one side constantly breaking the other team's base? What about REALLY unbalanced servers? This just gives incentive for the over-populated realm to get even MORE stuff from Ilum then before as they will now run these games unopposed. This sounds like a fun game honestly but the problems with Ilum are a microcosm of the entire game with realms being unbalanced. I play on a server where there are NO pvp queues at 50, zero, nadda, squat. I have been queued for roughly 12 hours straight on a Saturday and not gotten any pops and I *still* have my "Complete a Warzone Match" quest in my log from when I hit 50 several weeks ago. If they want to do this, I say make a new Warzone with this mechanic where there is more control over the population. Well population caps are an option, one Bioware might even consider for the current Ilum. But again, population imbalance is a separate issue and not what this thread is supposed to be about. Personally I also think it's a problem that will fix itself eventually, as long as BIOWARE makes it unattractive to play the overpopulated faction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonitrus Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 This just slows down the pace of republic dying if they at all chose to play on those heavily biased servers. I like the 3 lane idea and the walkers. what they should also have is a stream of some elites, strongs and normal soldiers/droids in the mix to mess with the oposition. say this 1st tier of defensive turrets provide a shield so unless the walker drops it you cant sneak behind their lines and cause problems stopping overcrowded imps from steamrolling Reps in their home base. so once the shiled goes down players can pass through to next stage. at all this time NPCs can pass through the shiled without problems. so the defensive side still has some work to do supporting their inner turrets from these npcs who are both fighting your own NPCs and yourself but if they manage to beat a wave of your troops and you dont counter them they will move and secure some mini objective behind enemy lines like destroy a transformer weakining the shield or something. this objective is permanent for the duration of the encounter and opens offensive and defensive quests to bolster/weaken that objective. so say you do a small kill + collect some insignia turn in quests against this objective on the defensive side and you can weaken the troops at this from say all elites to all strong instead. the offensive side would have counter quest to bolster from elite to champion. so in effect can have 2 levels of tier up and down ehnancement happening PER LANE. have few critical objectives like this and can keep the whole server population busy with both PvP and PvE in the same place all contributing to the greate good of their side. there shuld be some quests involved to add into this mix for those who dont want to engage in pvp and get steamrolled. say a side has their first tower destroyed and are now on the defensive. a set of defensive quests opens up. say kill 300 (tweak for balance) soldiers where say normal=1 weak =0.5, strong =2 and elite =3 and player kills =5 or more to make it less of an incentive to lone wolf and get killed by defenders. once each player hands in the quest it builts up a tally of say reinforcement morale or some other stat. once it reaches a threshold you enable permanent defensive bonuses like extra HP for buildings or extra attack bonuses turrets etc etc so you can farm npcs the reset timer should be maybe daily or 6 hours min or more. nothing SMALL. we are talking about THE EPIC STRUGGLE AT ILLUM. if a side wins Illum then have a 6-12 hours reset on the zone and during that reset the winning side would gain access to serverside buff to all players say +5% XP gain and 5% extra gold from npc kills loot. maybe even 10% endurance and damage boost. as for the RPGs being the only way to bring it down i think its still favouring the overcrowded side. maybe tie it in with quests where more and more of your troops (npcs) carry RPGs so say you start with 1 per wave then 2, 3 , 4 ,5 and make each tier quest exponentially harder to achieve so say 100 insignia, 200,400,800,1600 or some sort. some mechanic where the war effort can be supported via farming/defending npc waves would benefit the balance more especially if you shield/restrict access to zones based on shield generators. so you will have say 1or 2 big generators per lane and massive demiliterised zone in the middle with player controlled turrets and some other style obstacles to hinder npcs/walkers/players etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrug Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) Ugh, this is a battleground, a 24/7 open world pvp instance.. How could this work.... Are you saying that 24 people cant be in on one side only some of the time? How do you control numbers? Oh if you try, your battleground is moot. What happens when noone is there? Sorry, there is nothing really wrong with the current battlegrounds other than the republic is holding its tail between its legs, not getting proper leadership on some servers, and just not showing up... when they do, they roll in one pack of 20 into another pack of 24 and yell UNFAIR.. instead of playing the strategic war game it is of divide and conquer.... They could make the battlegrounds 500% better, by simply removing all that junk add in crap, open the world up so its mysterious and you have to cover your *** moving around... But for some reason they put this stupid **** in the middle and capture points and no one plays strategically?!?!? whatevs Edited January 31, 2012 by Shrug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bionixx Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 A couple of points were raised. A) The cost of RPGs. 500 credits is not expensive at all. Especially since if you make them unique you can't stack them up. Not only that you take care of that problem but you promote teamwork. B) PvE boss. I think there should be one in an instance that you can only access during the 1-2 hours between battles and only the side which controls Ilum has access. This will give a reason for PvErs and PvPers alike to come and control Ilum at the very least during peak hours every day (or at least Tue/Wed/Thu). I know this is turning into Wintergrasp but honestly, it's better than what it is now and frankly I liked Wintergrasp. C) Population imbalance. As I suggested in a previous post, just limit the number of one side by the other one. For example, you can only have 25% more people of Faction A compared to B. If there are 20 Reps on the entire map, there can only be 25 Imps. D) Extra mobs. Idk about this one. It will tax the game engine especially on low end machines. I prefer having as suggested certain immobile turrets along the way which serve as checkpoints/minibosses of sorts. Sure it would be more epic with more NPCs but I'd rather have a smooth game. Also don't forget that with more NPCs, it will become more bug/exploit prone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrug Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 C) Population imbalance. As I suggested in a previous post, just limit the number of one side by the other one. For example, you can only have 25% more people of Faction A compared to B. If there are 20 Reps on the entire map, there can only be 25 Imps. Join Message: Error: You can't join, you're faction is outnumbering opposing forces! Player Response: Screw You Bioware, I am playing to play!!!!!!!! Player Rages to Forums... ***?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bionixx Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Join Message: Error: You can't join, you're faction is outnumbering opposing forces! Player Response: Screw You Bioware, I am playing to play!!!!!!!! Player Rages to Forums... ***?!?! Probably there will be some part of the population that will feel this way but if Ilum becomes actually fun to play, you will see a significant increase in players actually wanting to do it. WoW uses a similar system and it has worked out pretty well for them. 1 thing is at least sure, the bolster system sucks. I'd rather have 50 players play on Ilum in a fair fight and 20 wait than have 30 Imps and 2 Reps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrug Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 unfortunately as a retired game programmer, your not understanding what a battleground is... and maybe should rework this thread as some sort of warzone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonitrus Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Probably there will be some part of the population that will feel this way but if Ilum becomes actually fun to play, you will see a significant increase in players actually wanting to do it. WoW uses a similar system and it has worked out pretty well for them. 1 thing is at least sure, the bolster system sucks. I'd rather have 50 players play on Ilum in a fair fight and 20 wait than have 30 Imps and 2 Reps. server pop imbalance issue is an issue on itself not fixable by game mechanics. years of jedi this jedi that light side this and that have trained us to want and try the dark side the illum game/zone mechanic imbalance is preety much in favor of numbers game where nothing is given to the guerrila style tactics option. is some sort of small group tactics quests are implemented in secure/partially secure zones to offset any number inbalance game then it is possibly a fix. like my uncle always said if your hammer doesnt work GET A BIGGER HAMMER!! and the Imps look like have access to bigger hammers They could even implement a warzone like mini instances 5-10 mins matches that go into a tally that contribute to a tertiarry mechanic in illum. say you queue and only allowed to queue for those while in illum and say at 8v8 typical style warzone all featuring different parts of illum. so have a cap of say 20 matches per any one time so if you have 32 reps and 1000 imps thos 32 reps will get to play alot compared to the imps but the overall tally is the important aspect. say the queue goes for the duration of the zone say 6 hours. each win goes to a tally that contributes to reaching a certain threshold. after such thresholds are reached have some illum wide buff present to the winning side players. so if you had 32 hardcore pvpers rebublic side steamrolling 8v8 and getting their thresholds up planetwide than any republic world pvpers will benefit from the buff. same for the imps. if you have multiple of these instances all contributing different parts to the planet then it can be made a open world warzone without anyone actually open world pvping that would be awesome would it not? i am afraid its hard to balance/fix/tweak/nerf/buff/call it what you want, a game mechanic that stems from inbalance due to social issues. They need to work on some COOL factor buffs for the light side. maybe add Yoda as a class on its own and watch the player flock to the FOTM class republic side i afraid with classes being 'mirrors' people dont feel like they miss out on cool stuff Light Side and flock to the "cool and bad a55 looking dark side" all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anti_Bodies Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I would love a Dota styled SWTOR. This would also make a wonderful Warzone too (that would be more controlled then open world DOTA). Love it though, it defintly works for Ilum and I really want this. bump!!! stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bionixx Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 A population imbalance is an issue in itself. I agree with that statement. What I am suggesting however is simply a mechanic to ignore it. If you only let a certain number of people in like WoW does it, the 2 teams facing off will not be imbalanced in number. Of course that leaves some people waiting outside of the PvP part of Ilum but oh well, sucks to be you. Happens in WoW too, just wait until the next battle in 2 hours. While Ilum is an open area, for the duration of the battle, it functions similarly to a warzone. There is only a certain number of people allowed in and everyone else can wait at the cave entrance. There are clear objectives and there are finally groups of equivalent sizes fighting. How is this worse than what we have now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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