Operative/Scoundrel Damage (Pics from WZs)

[Chaos_Distortion]

The problem is I do not see that happening. I've seen this sort of behavior from devs many times in the past. They hastily nerf a class instead of actually sitting down and taking things slow, to make sure the nerf is needed and will not invalidate the class entirely.

 

By the time they come around to actual balance, many people would have given up, left or rerolled, which is just bad for the game as a whole.

 

Why can't they just take a moderate, sensible approach for once, and if they really want to fix the problem, why not address the root causes of it?

 

In a game I played before, there was a lot of QQ about the AOE of one class (H). The devs said they are toning down the AOE of all classes, because it is higher than intended, but they are going to start with that class (H). They destroyed that class' AOE in the following patch.

 

What happens next patch? They buff the AOE of another class, and give an insane AOE to third class.

Warhammer Online.

[CEAF]

Seriously, just reroll. I have a Champ geared Op (and I prefer healing so I wasn't even Concealment spec 90% of the time) and have rerolled a Sorc.

 

In a full length WZ I now put out 350K damage/60K heal (shield) at level 25 with half a talent tree and blue gear all while having utility that's so stupidly over the top I just shake my head.

(note: BH Merc/PT is pretty much as good as Sorc)

 

The devs have no idea what they are doing with regard to balance. I strongly advise you to pick the obvious best class and play it. Your game experience will be 1000% less frustrating.

[Sathid]

Seriously, just reroll. I have a Champ geared Op (and I prefer healing so I wasn't even Concealment spec 90% of the time) and have rerolled a Sorc.

 

In a full length WZ I now put out 350K damage/60K heal (shield) at level 25 with half a talent tree and blue gear all while having utility that's so stupidly over the top I just shake my head.

(note: BH Merc/PT is pretty much as good as Sorc)

 

The devs have no idea what they are doing with regard to balance. I strongly advise you to pick the obvious best class and play it. Your game experience will be 1000% less frustrating.

 

I will most likely shelve my scoundrel due to the nerfs and have already been lvling a sage which is OK because there is not too many of them on my server compared to the army of inquis/sorcs the empire side has.

 

May even unsub if something good doesnt happen in the next two weeks.

Edited January 30, 2012 by Sathid

[Lykurgus]

 

<snip>

 

bin hit a few times by Scoundrels Operatives for 7k+

 

the current situation for me atm is this .... i regularly get killed inside a stunlock by OP's coz theres just no way to counter the amount of burst they put out, only if im lucky, and they arn't very good, i can run away, if they are good however im dead, no question, no argument

 

<snip>

 

 

 

After the 1.1 patch? I seriously doubt that.

 

Now that the Biochem changes are in Ops can no longer kill you in under 3 seconds. If you are going to insist on saying they can then you are either undergeared or a liar.

 

But meh, as you said in your opening line most people on here have no freaking clue what they are on about. it seems you can include yourself in that category.

[Llilium]

You are noob because always in all wz, the best damage is 7k+.

 

go to cry

 

you are noob best damage is you face lol 7k i type like genius now

[Laikacosmo]

People are running around with over 16k-23k HP in BM gear. Even assuming an opening crit for 6k, how is that instagib? Even after a "mythical" full rotation of crits during the 3s knockdown: 6k + 3k + 3k = 12k. How is that instagib?

 

Because no one counts the dots (that can crit) that tick away during the duration of each of those hits. Everyone seems to neglect those because they are so fixated on shiny big numbers.

 

Every little bit counts.

[Vesperr]

First - no one likes to die without being able to do anything. Second - heavy armor classes dont like feeling nude when attacked by operative. Third - you are getting nerfed one way or another.

[Sevvy]

The KD/Jarring Strike nerf and the 20% Hidden Strike damage nerf was fine. The Acid blade nerf is too much.

[Sathid]

First - no one likes to die without being able to do anything. Second - heavy armor classes dont like feeling nude when attacked by operative. Third - you are getting nerfed one way or another.

 

That is an issue of using your abilitys and nerfing a class will not help you,it's not the class,it's you.

[Lykurgus]

That is an issue of using your abilitys and nerfing a class will not help you,it's not the class,it's you.

 

Yup. Then all the bads will QQ about something else, untill they nerf that.

 

And so the circle continues.

[Drakks]

Operatives had some crazy burst, but in pvp the larger problem is that they did it while you were unable to control your character -- that, as a concept, never works out. Skill is completely removed from the equation by a simple boolean check of whether you had all your defensive CDs ready for this one person.

 

To the other issues - Mercs, really? People think spamming tracer missle is op? Personally, I find the class hilarious, as you interupt a tracer once with a lockout on the skill and you can literally watch the character stand there while the player is smashing his one button and can't figure out why nothing is happening.

 

Beyond that Sorcs DO need a nerf, just not in their damage. I have no issue with thier ability to output damage, nor their escapes -- where they need tweaking is in their baseline healing and shielding, since it all scales with the same stats (same goes for Sorcs). Without spending a point in the healing tree, a medicore player here can pull an easy 100k healing and triple that in damage. Scoundrels/Operatives and Commandos/Mercs base heals aren't this effective, to wit you'll see solid damage OR healing from these classes, rather than seeing both which tends to be the case on Sorcs/Sages. That all being said, I really think if Sorcs/Sages baseline heals and shielding was reduced (but obviously increased from their respective healing trees) a lot of the complaints would die.

Edited January 30, 2012 by Drakks

[nophere]

Ok, this is first time posting on these forums coz i usualy just read and laugh to myself at how stupid most people are on these forums, and the truth is 95% that post here have no clue about what **** they're chattin, yet accuse others of the same and its pathetic, it really is.

 

now my first point for this is ....

 

 

 

 

you state "sorce" of being in all those screenies ...... and then claim Agent but not sure if SNP or OP ...... what makes you so sure they're sorce ?? ...... they are in fact Assasins, for 2 reasons ....

 

1. none of them have any healing done apart from one, which im not sure is a sorce and maybe due to use of med packs for my second reason which is ..

 

2. Sorce don't hit for the numbers being shown .. equal champ gear to another player a sorce will NOT hit for over 4k, Assassin on the other hand will, and do all the time.

 

 

I play sorcerer my self, healer mostly, i'm currently sitting on 10% expertise with my current gear, and i can say 100% i've never bin hit by another sorce for more than 3.2k

i've also when running dmg specc never hit anyone my self for more than 2.8k which was with chain lightening used off the wrath proc from madness tree giving 20% extra damage.

 

i have however, bin hit regularly by assassins for 4k+, BH's for 4.5k+ and bin hit a few times by Scoundrels Operatives for 7k+

 

the current situation for me atm is this .... i regularly get killed inside a stunlock by OP's coz theres just no way to counter the amount of burst they put out, only if im lucky, and they arn't very good, i can run away, if they are good however im dead, no question, no argument, im dead. don't give me the lol force sprint/bubble/cc ******** coz in the real world vs real pvper's it's not even a factor my healings gimped within pvp combat, and certain classes i cannot stand toe to toe and out heal a single classes DMG its not possible, i can run rings around a single assassin IF i have obsticles to kite him around, same can't be said for the other melee classes as they have more tools for lockin people down and closing gaps.

 

now im not saying sorce is underpowered as such, but they deffo are NOT overpowered and all the people saying otherwise are just bad players, every decent pvper knows if theres a sorce on the field you go kill them first, coz they're the easiest target to kill especialy for melee, i constantly get arse ***** by 4+ melee in every WZ coz they know as well as i do, im not gonna survive 3 seconds.

 

lets list the sorcerers defensive arsenal :-

 

1. Static Barrier

 

oh wait thats it .... which can be used once every 20 seconds and by my estimate absorbs roughly 4 - 5k dmg with the 20% buff from lightening ..... which seein as almost every other class in the game crits for 4k+ anyway, doesn't exactly stop much in the long run.

 

with how all the whiners on this forum talk static barrier could even absorb chuck norris, its bollox.

 

truth is at the end of the day sorce is not Overpowered, its far from it, yes they "can" be nasty if left alone to freecast on some nub standing in the open scratchin his lefty.

 

but as soon as any attention is turned to them they have to run away coz they can't withstand a battering from anyone, light armour, no Defensive CD, and everything we do is on a cast, any instant cast's we get, then have a 10 sec+ CD before they can be used again, some instants we need to cast or channel something in order to get a proc BEFORE we can instant cast .... and even then the proc isn't 100% .... wrath from madness sometimes takes 3 Force lightening channels to proc, thats 9 seconds of channeling before you can then insta cast chain lightening, which then has a 6 sec CD.

 

i could ramble about this all day, i know there are ignorant arrogant anal passages out there that will still argue Sorce is the devils work.

 

OP / scound is gettin nerfed coz they need it, theres no way anyone can argue against it.

 

BH =//= Merc / trooper -- this needs nerfing next, as thier DMG / armour / healing is out of whack they're a hybrid just the same as a sorce, yet they have heavy armour which provides a 100% uptime dmg reduction, as well as doing the second / third biggest crits in game next to the OP's, as well as being able to heal ..... now im not gonna say what needs to be done to nerf these coz i honestly don't know enough about every single ability they have to give a factual opinion .... only thing i can say is .... gettin spammed by a single ability that hits for shet loads is too much combined with everything else.

 

marauders -- i think they need a little tone down on thier defensive CD's in conjuction with thier dmg ... i've seen a fully BM geared guy tank 6 people, and kill 2 of them before they could finaly kill him ... given, some of the 6 may have bin window lickers but fact remains, 1 guy shouldn't be able to tank 6 and kill 2 while his CD's are active. other than that, don't see much issue with them

 

every other class has thier annoyances, but in general is somethin you learn to live with and counter ....

 

so i say this ..... all the people claiming sorce dmg is OP in pvp, piss off and stop being bad.

 

all those that say sorce utility in pvp is OP .... maybe in butthall only ... but then, concidering the amount of knockbacks / grips / charges / stuns ect ect .... they are hardly alone, they are the only class that brings a defensive grip .... but theres 2 others that have an offensive grip to counter ....... so agen, stop whining and form a team of players that combine the strengths of everyone. theres no "i" in TEAM !

 

You are just bad. There is no other way to tell you.

 

You say you only have static barrier? Should I tell you how a sorc has some of the most util in the game? Lets name them for you and maybe then you wont cry for everyone else to be nerfed because you cant play your own class.

 

1 Static Barrier

2 A blind on static barrier when it fades (Talented)

3 AOE knockback

4 An instant CC (talented)

5 Interupts

6 Electrocute

 

I swear to god watching sorc's crying about others being OP and crying for everyone to be nerfed BECAUSE THEY ARE HORRIBLE makes me crack up.

[Sathid]

Operatives had some crazy burst, but in pvp the larger problem is that they did it while you were unable to control your character -- that, as a concept, never works out. Skill is completely removed from the equation by a simple boolean check of whether you had all your defensive CDs ready for this one person.

 

To the other issues - Mercs, really? People think spamming tracer missle is op? Personally, I find the class hilarious, as you interupt a tracer once with a lockout on the skill and you can literally watch the character stand there while the player is smashing his one button and can't figure out why nothing is happening.

 

Beyond that Sorcs DO need a nerf, just not in their damage. I have no issue with thier ability to output damage, nor their escapes -- where they need tweaking is in their baseline healing and shielding, since it all scales with the same stats (same goes for Sorcs). Without spending a point in the healing tree, a medicore player here can pull an easy 100k healing and triple that in damage. Scoundrels/Operatives and Commandos/Mercs base heals aren't this effective, to wit you'll see solid damage OR healing from these classes, rather than seeing both which tends to be the case on Sorcs/Sages. That all being said, I really think if Sorcs/Sages baseline heals and shielding was reduced (but obviously increased from their respective healing trees) a lot of the complaints would die.

 

I agree with most of that but dont forget Inquiszys or is that included in Sorc? anyhow when four to six spots are almost always these casters,HOUSTON we have a problem and it was not or is not scoundrels/Ops that have been breaking the PvP it is the amount of Sorc's/Inquis far and away than anything else.

Edited January 30, 2012 by Sathid

[Sevvy]

I swear to god watching sorc's crying about others being OP and crying for everyone to be nerfed BECAUSE THEY ARE HORRIBLE makes me crack up.

 

Same. But it's to be expected. The ezmode class always has the most whiners. Because it generally takes very little skill/effort to play. Not saying that every Sorc is a skill-less one button mashing scrub. But there are a lot of people like that out there.

[VertisReaper]

People don't realize that the opener is only part of the problem. Average opener is around 4k HP. THat's already 25% of my HP. My gf can explain it better as she actually plays the class. Basically her damage consists of a 4k opener and like a 3k backstab. After that I'm taking dot ticks that bring me to 15% HP.

 

That is with 600 expertise on my guardian.

 

So basically w/o defensive CD's an operative has brought me already down to 15% hp in a single opening rotation. That is fair?

Edited January 30, 2012 by VertisReaper

[nophere]

People don't realize that the opener is only part of the problem. Average opener is around 4k HP. THat's already 25% of my HP. My gf can explain it better as she actually plays the class. Basically her damage consists of a 4k opener and like a 3k backstab. After that I'm taking dot ticks that bring me to 15% HP.

 

That is with 600 expertise on my guardian.

 

So basically w/o defensive CD's an operative has brought me already down to 15% hp in a single opening rotation. That is fair?

 

You would be down to about 40-50% after the opener. Good players can overcome that and kill an Operative before they die.

Edited January 30, 2012 by nophere

[Sathid]

People don't realize that the opener is only part of the problem. Average opener is around 4k HP. THat's already 25% of my HP. My gf can explain it better as she actually plays the class. Basically her damage consists of a 4k opener and like a 3k backstab. After that I'm taking dot ticks that bring me to 15% HP.

 

That is with 600 expertise on my guardian.

 

So basically w/o defensive CD's an operative has brought me already down to 15% hp in a single opening rotation. That is fair?

 

You have 12k hitpoints on your guardian with 600 expertise?

 

My scoundrel has 16k and not that much expertise,,,,yahh .

 

 

It's this stuff that started and went for two weeks that brought the nerf.

[Sevvy]

People don't realize that the opener is only part of the problem. Average opener is around 4k HP. THat's already 25% of my HP. My gf can explain it better as she actually plays the class. Basically her damage consists of a 4k opener and like a 3k backstab. After that I'm taking dot ticks that bring me to 15% HP.

 

That is with 600 expertise on my guardian.

 

The average opener? 4k on a Hidden Strike is a crit. 3k on a Backstab is a crit.

 

People never like to mention the times that a Hidden Strike hit them for 2.3k and the subsequent Backstab hit them for 1.5k.

[Sevvy]

Lol guys, what's 4 x 4,000?

 

 

16,000. Very good.

Edited January 30, 2012 by Sevvy

[Sathid]

How do you have 600 expertise and 12k HP is my question?

 

He doesnt,the kids came on here pulling numbers out of their ,,,,,, until Bio relented,thats what happened.

[ninjashadowdark]

Its so true. All the players crying about nerfing this and that are clearly the sub-par skilled of the community. Why? The patch for OP isn't even out yet, and they havn't even seen how must burst the changes will bring in action.

 

Yet, they are already crying about sorcerer/sage and mercs/comm. Its clearly they don't want to improve on thier own skills and just want something to whine about till Bioware have buffed the class they are playing so they can feel good about themselves and how good they are. But clearly due to the reason they just simply have no skills for pvp.

 

I have seen all classes break 500k+ dps and all classes have some really good player behind it. To all the nerf criers, maybe you guys should try to improve on yourselves instead of trying to bring others down. I guess its human nature to not admit that.....you suck.

 

wait 500k one shot ..... lol

[nophere]

Lol guys, what's 4 x 4,000?

 

 

16,000. Very good.

 

He edited it.. His original post said 12k and 600 expertise so we already know he is full of it.

 

Another cry for nerfs from people lying.

[Sevvy]

He edited it.. His original post said 12k and 600 expertise so we already know he is full of it.

 

Another cry for nerfs from people lying.

 

Ahhhh, I seeeeeee.

[Sathid]

He edited it.. His original post said 12k and 600 expertise so we already know he is full of it.

 

Another cry for nerfs from people lying.

 

But wait he said a 4k hit was 25% of his health,so the remaining health would be 3x4k thus 16k,atleast thats how i read it.

[VertisReaper]

people can't read. 4k is 25% of my HP ...HERP DERP. Edited January 30, 2012 by VertisReaper