JeremyDale Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 A game that takes months to complete compared to a game that takes 4 days to complete (ME3)... seems massive to me. GW2 isn't going to be any bigger zonewise... so yeah, I'd say this game is massive. What are trying to compare it to, a game that has had many content expansions over the course of 8 years? Well yeah, it's smaller than that atm... It may seem massive to you, but it doesn't to me. I spent years and years on Final Fantasy 11. A month was nothing - and there is no way I can see myself even spending 6 months on this game, let alone half a decade like I have on some other MMORPGs. This game just doens't feel or play like an MMORPG to me. It's a free country though, so we can agree to disagree. Also, it's not about the "zone size" Bulldogs. SWTOR lacks a free and interconnected world. There is very little freedom or ability to explore. There are walls and barricades and long zones seperating everything. The world jsut feels cramped, linear, and scripted. It just doesn't have the "massive" feel to it that other MMORPGs have such as WoW and LOTRO, both of which have huge impressive worlds that players can freely roam about and explore. SWTOR just doesn't have this. It's built like a single-player action game with a lots of "sharding" as it's called. This really hurts the game IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulldogs_Rule Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Everyone's forgetting that GW2 has no sub fee... I'll be playing both probably So you like the game enough to stick with it and not complain with irrational arguments like OP? Happy to see you stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zangaboing Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Well allow me to educate you. How often on this game do you spend your time in groups or "multiplaying"? I doubt very often before you reach max level, considering it is painfully easy to rapidly solo most of the content on this game. So even by your own odd standards the term doesn't apply. This game is cleary aimed toward solo play. Hell, you can't even complete the main story quests together....as if two jedi consulars for example attempt to do their story lines as a group one has to enter "spectator mode" and it doesn't even count for them lol You are just wrong. This is no Massive game, not in either respect. Not in world size, nor in multiplayer experience. Massively multiplayer does not mean that players are forced to group to clear all the content. You can complete quests and level up in a group - the game even rewards players who do that with extra xp and drops - its another matter if the incentives arent strong enough and players choose to level up solo. That means that the developers still need to work on the leveling part. They still have to group up in order to complete heroic quests, flashpoints and operations though, so i dont see how you can say that "This is no Massive game, not in either respect. Not in world size, nor in multiplayer experience." and be so smug about it too. With just a simple google search, check out some f2p games that you CAN call mmos: http://www.zimbio.com/MMORPG/articles/vAwovAoAIiK/Weird+Free+Play+MMOs+MMORPGs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
looneybinjim Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 the sky is falling! the end is nigh! woe is me! dooom dooom! ive heard this all before on various other mmo's. and you know what? even the oldest of those mmo's is still going strong (after 12 years). so do us all a favour, and go play crash bandicoot or something and stop filling these forums with rubbish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zangaboing Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 So you like the game enough to stick with it and not complain with irrational arguments like OP? Happy to see you stay. I know, i know... im just weird... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyDale Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Actually I've grouped up while leveling in this game a lot more than I have on my last 3-4 wow characters I leveled up. Back when I still played wow. Let me guess, wow isn't an mmo either? I was using your standard of what supposedly makes an MMORPG, not mine. And by your standards, there is certainly nothing "massive" about the multi-player element of this game - which is perhaps the most solo-heavy MMORPG I've ever played. I group up with friends to level on Borderlands too for example, but I woudn't consider that a MMORPG either. The fact there are a couple of optional "heroic quests" on each planet you can group up for hardly makes this an impressive game from an emphasis on multiplayer perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulldogs_Rule Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 It may seem massive to you, but it doesn't to me. I spent years and years on Final Fantasy 11. A month was nothing - and there is no way I can see myself even spending 6 months on this game, let alone half a decade like I have on some other MMORPGs. This game just doens't feel or play like an MMORPG to me. It's a free country though, so we can agree to disagree. Also, it's not about the "zone size" Bulldogs. SWTOR lacks a free and interconnected world. There is very little freedom or ability to explore. There are walls and barricades and long zones seperating everything. The world jsut feels cramped, linear, and scripted. It just doesn't have the "massive" feel to it that other MMORPGs have such as WoW and LOTRO, both of which have huge impressive worlds that players can freely roam about and explore. SWTOR just doesn't have this. It's built like a single-player action game with a lots of "sharding" as it's called. This really hurts the game IMHO. Wide open spaces with nothing in them feel like lack of dev creativity to me. I have no desire to roam around a place that is not going to provide ANY benefits. Of course I never played any of those other MMORPGs because I just wasn't interested in the slightest. This is my one and only foray into the MMORPG realm as none of the titles on the horizon look interesting to me. I can agree to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zangaboing Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I was using your standard of what supposedly makes an MMORPG, not mine. And by your standards, there is certainly nothing "massive" about the multi-player element of this game - which is perhaps the most solo-heavy MMORPG I've ever played. I group up with friends to level on Borderlands too for example, but I woudn't consider that a MMORPG either. The fact there are a couple of optional "heroic quests" on each planet you can group up for hardly makes this an impressive game from an emphasis on multiplayer perspective. So if not content that needs other players to clear it, what would you consider "standard" mmo content? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyDale Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) Massively multiplayer does not mean that players are forced to group to clear all the content. You can complete quests and level up in a group - the game even rewards players who do that with extra xp and drops - its another matter if the incentives arent strong enough and players choose to level up solo. That means that the developers still need to work on the leveling part. They still have to group up in order to complete heroic quests, flashpoints and operations though, so i dont see how you can say that "This is no Massive game, not in either respect. Not in world size, nor in multiplayer experience." and be so smug about it too. With just a simple google search, check out some f2p games that you CAN call mmos: http://www.zimbio.com/MMORPG/articles/vAwovAoAIiK/Weird+Free+Play+MMOs+MMORPGs I"m not being smug. You are just overly-sensetive or something lol And MMORPGs did use to mean exactly that. There has just been a serious dumbing down to turn MMORPGs into solo games to accomadate players who really have no business playing an MMO to begin with. If players want to play a solo action/adventure game with the option to team up with a friend there are plenty of games out there for you. There is no need to intrude on the MMO market then fuss and cry when they can't solo the game in a month. It's ruining the market frankly. And I stand by what I said. NO game you can so easily reach max level and see all of the environments in the span of a month can be considered "massive" in my mind. Edited January 30, 2012 by JeremyDale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjwho Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 Wide open spaces with nothing in them feel like lack of dev creativity to me. I have no desire to roam around a place that is not going to provide ANY benefits. Of course I never played any of those other MMORPGs because I just wasn't interested in the slightest. This is my one and only foray into the MMORPG realm as none of the titles on the horizon look interesting to me. I can agree to disagree. Yeah thats the main problem with TOR playerbase. A lot of them have not played other mmo's and just saw this as a SW mmo. Then there is the problem this game really is meant for single player experience, combined with huge amounts of bugs, bad csr's, and horrible design on a basic level. Meh, i give it 6 months. Doubt the subs will last that long with the total lack of endgame content and the amount EA/bioware are gonna care about swotr after ME3 comes out lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyDale Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Wide open spaces with nothing in them feel like lack of dev creativity to me. . Sounds just like SWTOR to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaxSithari Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Awesome, good points there oh great org poster. Here are a few more questions, if you would: If it goes F2P, will you all keep playing? If it doesn't, will you all keep whining on these boards while paying $15 a month? If you leave and have bound items, can you sell them and give me your creds? I'll also take any craft mats. You can leave with a clear conscience. How long have the ME3 devs been working on SWTOR? Should the TOR team stop creating patches while they work on the next DA, as you seem to think BW only has one studio and can't generate more than 1 game at a time? And one more for you prognosticators out there: across all my ME saves, what is the ratio of Ashley/Kaidan as VS? If you can answer that correctly, then I will believe your prophecies on the success or failure of TOR. Tootles! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyDale Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Yeah thats the main problem with TOR playerbase. A lot of them have not played other mmo's and just saw this as a SW mmo. Then there is the problem this game really is meant for single player experience, combined with huge amounts of bugs, bad csr's, and horrible design on a basic level. Meh, i give it 6 months. Doubt the subs will last that long with the total lack of endgame content and the amount EA/bioware are gonna care about swotr after ME3 comes out lol. I give it the same. 6 months tops unless some huge design overhauls take place - which is pretty doubtful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archifikoss Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Let me predict the future by release dates. Sounds odd doesn't it? 3/6/2012. Mass Effect 3. -You will lose half your pve fanbase if not more. ANY pve goodies in this game are already dwarfed by ME 1 and 2. 3 now has co-op. GOODBYE PVE. Summer/Fall 2012. -You will lose all your PVP. That is, if people don't get fed up with the horrible statis of it as is. Guild Wars 2 will, of course, destroy this game's pvp in every way from graphics to gameplay to sound. Though i doubt many people will stick to this game's pvp when its pretty bad as is. GOODBYE PVP ----------------------------------------------------------------------- That is, if its not F2P in the next 6 months. Oh, it's one of those "speshul" threads again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikeyeli Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 lol. ME3 = not an MMORPG. i'll beat it in one weekend and then go back to swtor. This Like its happened with every other game ived played, beat it in 2 days, than go back to whatever mmo i was playing at the time. Guild Wars is Competition. But compairing ME3 to Swtor, makes no logical sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eleventySeven Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Even if SWTOR servers were shut down tomorrow, never to be brought back, I wouldn't be surprised if it was still profitable. What is more likely to happen, as retail sales remain low over some period of time, the retail price will drop incrementally - eventually becoming free-to-play with some sort of item mall or similar. This is the science to squeezing blood from a stone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xShadow- Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 you do know the mass effect 3 "coop" is mainly a survival mode with story, nothing else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surakis Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 wait. You think SWTOR is an mmorpg/?? Its more of a single player game with co-op. Actually, it fits singleplayer a lot more than MMO. Perhaps you can blame it on ability delay but your troll power did not activate properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zangaboing Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) I"m not being smug. You are just overly-sensetive or something lol And MMORPGs did use to mean exactly that. There has just been a serious dumbing down to turn MMORPGs into solo games to accomadate players who really have no business playing an MMO to begin with. If players want to play a solo action/adventure game with the option to team up with a friend there are plenty of games out there for you. There is no need to intrude on the MMO market then fuss and cry when they can't solo the game in a month. It's ruining the market frankly. And I stand by what I said. NO game you can so easily reach max level and see all of the environments in the span of a month can be considered "massive" in my mind. What you're saying makes absolutely no sense. How is the time spent by players to reach max level any relevant to whether a game can be called an mmo. In fact, who said that mmos MUST have levels? You just dont get what everyone else is telling you. You've just set your mind with a warped idea of what MMO games were/are/should be and you refuse to see any alternative. I can understand not liking this game, you have a lot of reasons not to. But this is an mmo. You cant deny that - you're just kidding yourself or just trying to piss everyone else off (which i think is the case here). edit 1.0.1a -Added an F that was missing. Edited January 30, 2012 by Zangaboing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackPipsam Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 There is PvP in SW:TOR? Anyways I would say the only thing that would make me move elsewhere is The Secret World or if SOE updates Vanguard for once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giondi Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 But point is, this game is single player. You play the most with yourself. And instance with friends. Unlike WoW. There, you instance with strangers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derbefrier Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) so all the people arguing over the definition of MMORPG was pretty amusing but got old quick and just got sad and depressing. GW2 is going to be awesome. i have done some research and its going to be a fun game no doubt. will it steal me away from TOR? i dunno I will burn that bridge when i need to but if they deliver on their promises than mostly likely i will cancel my sub when that game is released (would love to play both but i dont have the free time for 2 MMOs) as for the future of this game if BIOWARE fixes some bugs adds more content regularly than their will be plenty of people more than willing to keep playing. Edited January 30, 2012 by Derbefrier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surakis Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Everyone's forgetting that GW2 has no sub fee... I'll be playing both probably Wait, GW2 the great SWTOR killer is starting out F2P? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toroi Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) Okay, I actually am quite enjoying the game for now, but, yeah, it needs some work or I'll move on eventually. My take on this whole future thing. 1. The whole "this is not an MMO" argument is just stupid semantics. Its irrelvant. I played WoW for ages, but with new toons many people single quest all the way to 85, with maybe an instance or two thrown in. Gee, that's how you level up in SWTOR too. Bottom line, who cares what you call it? If you like it you like it, if you don't go play something else. 2. Bugs - yeah, its buggy. Bottom line is they blew it by releasing it too early. Needed maybe a couple more months of beta and fixes. I think they boosted immediate sales by releasing before the holidays, but overall lost out on subscriptions and new players over the long term. Bad call there. 3. Features. This relates to number 2, but things like a looking for group feature, better auction house, a more developed endgame, etc. should have been available at launch. Now they are playing catchup and it doesn't look good that way. 4. Class imbalances. Ok, this was just stupid. All the abilities with animation delay such as mortar volley, project, etc. are on Republic side. This should never have happened if they had been thinking. Needs to be fixed fast. This is also a big contributor to the empire side having so many more players. 5. Lack of open world. This is just a preference, really. I rather enjoy going to different planets and its simply not possible to make it in the same style as a single open world. I do agree that all the blockages like walls and mountains make it hard to explore and I find it frustrating at times. Long world load times are also a pain. 6. Story. I like this; some don't. I feel way more drawn into my character and the game due to the story design. Does it make it more single player? Sure, but I run plenty of flash points and heroic quests with people, too. I don't like to be forced to group, because that would suck if I couldn't find a group. I think they've drawn a decent balance, really. Maybe a bit less sharding to make things seem a bit more "multiplayer", but I don't mind the current mix. 7. Customer Service. Just flat out stinks. Developers need to respond to issues better and actually post frequently in the forums and address player concerns. Let people know that they understand the issues and will address them. Otherwise, they'll lose subscribers. Bottom Line, fix the bugs, add some endgame beyond farming warzones or raids and fix the bugs and class imbalances. I and many others like the game in general, but there's a lot of competition out there, so Bioware really needs to fix the issues players have and actually start engaging the community before they start losing too many players. Good game with lots of potential - I hope they can make it work. Edited January 30, 2012 by Toroi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zangaboing Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) Unlike WoW. There, you instance with strangers. Or just level up by yourself until you're 85 and then, suddenly you CAN play with other people. Wait, GW2 the great SWTOR killer is starting out F2P? Yes, just like the previous Guild wars game, you just buy the box and then just pay extra for expansions. Edited January 30, 2012 by Zangaboing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts