Can we trade some story for some MMO?

[Dalex]

As the title mentions, can we lose a bit of story and gain a bit more MMO so this doesn't feel like mass effect with coop? The class story is fine, its nice and innovative I agree, but the rest of the side missions are not quite up there.

 

The phases are only accentuating the huge sterile worlds. I get that class quests need phases to preserve people from ruining your story, but why do we have phases for heroic 2, heroic 4, hell the worst is they have phases for SOLO quests?!?!? My server is already a ghost town. Right now on Tatooine we have a record 30 people, which isn't even too bad considering we had 8 this morning... These people are so far apart from each other due to the huge world that is littered with phases. We never see imperial players even though its supposed to be a PVP server, but we don't even see each other!!! That doesn't feel like an MMO.

 

Instead of focusing on voice acting for every single quest... can you focus on introducing incentives to group, to make the world vibrant, open and full of players. These players don't need to be separated by more artificial barriers... The only areas in the game that should be phases are class quests, warzones and flashpoints/operations.

 

Besides the class story, the story in the side missions doesn't even involve decisions that matter. Nothing I choose in conversations matters (they even rehash a lot of the voice acting), I can respond like a total douchebag or a goody goody two shoes and the NPC will just continue his script. The light/darkside choices are a little better, but they only serve the purpose of getting gear pieces that require said alignment. That only makes it worse, because I find myself just choosing one of the two so I can get the gear I want. Why isn't there neutral gear.

 

Even in the class story, I can't make dramatic choices either, I'm always guided towards a predictable outcome except in a few special moments. Why can't I kill my companions again? That would actually have a nice effect on the story.

 

So anyways yeah, WTT Story for MMO, pst.

[Thorun]

This isnt going to end well.

[SoulstitchMMO]

Bioware spent 200million on writers and voice actors. They forgot to budget money for actually hiring programmers.

[Evilidea]

No! All I am saying is no to losing story. Getting more MMO functionality is great but not at the cost of story. For myself and I am sure 1000's upon 1000's of others story is what we feel has been missing from all the other crap mmos we have been playing the last decade.

 

BW please add MMO features soon so the type of players like the OP do not go viral and contaminate your design decision of having STORY. Thank you that is all.

[Iret]

when will people stop comparing this to world of wankers.....

[Dalex]

when will people stop comparing this to world of wankers.....

 

What part of my post mentioned anything about any other game besides SWTOR? Selective reading much? It's hard to compare TOR to other MMOs anyway, other MMOs are you know, more MMOish.

[Evilidea]

What part of my post mentioned anything about any other game besides SWTOR? Selective reading much? It's hard to compare TOR to other MMOs anyway, other MMOs are you know, more MMOish.

 

And in many of our opinions they suck for it. I hope BW finds the right balance eventually.

[ShonaChaos]

I've always been a proponent of adding features that accentuate people playing together in MMO's.

I don't understand how MMO's continue to evolve as single player games with auction houses. Nothing you're able to beat by yourself should be worthwhile experience.

I'm currently level 47 and have gotten there solo. I've done 2 flashpoints with friends i work with. But even that was just for fun and isn't even required to progress in the game.

 

People will say that you can choose to play in groups if you want, but the majority of people will always choose the path of least resistance, since grouping is such a pain to most. This game, and others like it... such as Rift and WoW simply allow you to play it as a single-player game. Is that what the player-base really wants? I find it hard to believe a decent community can evolve in this type of game. I mean, you don't even need to learn group mechanics until you hit max level and want to start raiding. It doesn't feel the same. Why play an entire game solo to max level before you have to play with anyone?

[Dalex]

And in many of our opinions they suck for it. I hope BW finds the right balance eventually.

 

Not sure what "many of our opinions" is supposed to mean. But this is advertised first and foremost as an MMO with a paid subscription. That kind of entails more MMO than anything else.

 

As they have mentioned in the interviews leading up to this game, story is only a pillar out of 4 that make up MMOs. In this game, it seems to be the only relevant pillar, with the other three thrown in for good measure. That doesn't hook anyone to a game.

[Darth_Pants]

can we trade some of these kids who cry about everything, for some real mmo players?

 

thanks.

[Thamelas]

I would agree somewhat with the OP's point of view. Initially I was all caught up in the voice acting, but after playing for a while, I think voice acting should remain only in class quests maybe. I don't know. It just gets old fast, especially when you've ran the quest a few times on alts.

[Surakis]

can we trade some of these kids who cry about everything, for some real mmo players?

 

thanks.

 

+1!

 

[knightblaster]

 

People will say that you can choose to play in groups if you want, but the majority of people will always choose the path of least resistance, since grouping is such a pain to most.

 

You answered your question there -- people generally do not like "forced grouping" as a playstyle, at least not when they are leveling. People see it as a pain -- so gaming companies have made it less of a pain, and have gotten more subscriptions as a result of that.

[DorkTrooper]

I vote for alternating between adding more MMO features AND perpetuating the story/quests. Keep the most players interested that way.

[ShonaChaos]

You answered your question there -- people generally do not like "forced grouping" as a playstyle, at least not when they are leveling. People see it as a pain -- so gaming companies have made it less of a pain, and have gotten more subscriptions as a result of that.

 

I understand that argument, there are probably more people who would rather play the game as a solo game. It would be nice if a major game came out that forced grouping as a way to level up and play. I think that's what brought people into the genre in the first place, with games like UO, Everquest, and FFXI.

I know this magical game doesn't exist and wouldn't have as many subs as a game like WoW. But I honestly feel people are tiring of the current batch of games that have been coming out that all mimic this current playstyle.

[princey]

Not sure what "many of our opinions" is supposed to mean. But this is advertised first and foremost as an MMO with a paid subscription. That kind of entails more MMO than anything else.

 

As they have mentioned in the interviews leading up to this game, story is only a pillar out of 4 that make up MMOs. In this game, it seems to be the only relevant pillar, with the other three thrown in for good measure. That doesn't hook anyone to a game.

 

Pillars are Combat, Progression, Exploration, and Story. The only pillar I would agree that is (somewhat) lacking in TOR is exploration. They do reward exploration with datacrons, chest, boss mobs, and lore entries, but it's still limited.

 

I don't see how combat is just tacked on for good measure. You spend FAR more time in combat than anything else in this game. Sure, it's glitchy, but they're working on it.

 

As far as progression goes, there is plenty of progression. You've got level progression, story progression, companion affection progression, valor progression, social level progression, space progression, alignment progression, gear progression (for yourself and companions). Like I said, plenty of progression.

 

 

I understand that argument, there are probably more people who would rather play the game as a solo game. It would be nice if a major game came out that forced grouping as a way to level up and play. I think that's what brought people into the genre in the first place, with games like UO, Everquest, and FFXI.

 

It's also what limited the genre in terms of popularity, imo.

Edited January 29, 2012 by princey

[Zyanzor]

As the title mentions, can we lose a bit of story and gain a bit more MMO so this doesn't feel like mass effect with coop? The class story is fine, its nice and innovative I agree, but the rest of the side missions are not quite up there.

 

The phases are only accentuating the huge sterile worlds. I get that class quests need phases to preserve people from ruining your story, but why do we have phases for heroic 2, heroic 4, hell the worst is they have phases for SOLO quests?!?!? My server is already a ghost town. Right now on Tatooine we have a record 30 people, which isn't even too bad considering we had 8 this morning... These people are so far apart from each other due to the huge world that is littered with phases. We never see imperial players even though its supposed to be a PVP server, but we don't even see each other!!! That doesn't feel like an MMO.

 

Instead of focusing on voice acting for every single quest... can you focus on introducing incentives to group, to make the world vibrant, open and full of players. These players don't need to be separated by more artificial barriers... The only areas in the game that should be phases are class quests, warzones and flashpoints/operations.

 

Besides the class story, the story in the side missions doesn't even involve decisions that matter. Nothing I choose in conversations matters (they even rehash a lot of the voice acting), I can respond like a total douchebag or a goody goody two shoes and the NPC will just continue his script. The light/darkside choices are a little better, but they only serve the purpose of getting gear pieces that require said alignment. That only makes it worse, because I find myself just choosing one of the two so I can get the gear I want. Why isn't there neutral gear.

 

Even in the class story, I can't make dramatic choices either, I'm always guided towards a predictable outcome except in a few special moments. Why can't I kill my companions again? That would actually have a nice effect on the story.

 

So anyways yeah, WTT Story for MMO, pst.

 

 

 

This isn't WoW, there isn't 10million people playing. This game is only a little over a month old. You can't expect miracles overnight. WoW wasn't made overnight. It took 7 years for WoW to get where it is. Keep supporting the game and I'm sure Bioware will give us what we want. We just have to be patient.

[Dalex]

can we trade some of these kids who cry about everything, for some real mmo players?

 

thanks.

 

Lol, sure we can. Bioware needs to provide a real MMO for these "real mmo players".

 

Seriously though, responses like this only serve to alienate the players. As soon as we criticize your "perfect" game, we are "crying" lol? So we can't say anything about the game, unless to say its great? Get real please.

[knightblaster]

I understand that argument, there are probably more people who would rather play the game as a solo game. It would be nice if a major game came out that forced grouping as a way to level up and play. I think that's what brought people into the genre in the first place, with games like UO, Everquest, and FFXI.

I know this magical game doesn't exist and wouldn't have as many subs as a game like WoW. But I honestly feel people are tiring of the current batch of games that have been coming out that all mimic this current playstyle.

 

Yeah. Right now what you have are publishers and developers trying to get some of WoW's market, so they are making games that are like WoW. The problem is that it's very hard to out-WoW WoW itself -- WoW will always be better at being WoW. But, because WoW's market is so large (and this is unique in MMOs), people are going to keep trying to get that market -- especially EA, which will keep doing this to compete with Activision.

 

I think that the reality is that WoW is an outlier, and that the average MMO is more of a niche market, with a realistic goal of 300-500k subscribers for a very good MMO. The trouble is that relatively few publishers/investors are going to develop a AAA cost structure game for that level of stable subscribers when WoW has millions of subscribers. In other words, it would be possible for a differently-designed MMO to reach, say, 300k subs by making it more of a niche game with gameplay that is different from WoW -- but you'd have to have a realistic target, and know the market niche you are designing for. As of now, most developers and publishers are "playing it safe" and replicating WoW, while the MMOs that have different designs tend to be indie developed and not AAA titles.

[ShonaChaos]

Lol, sure we can. Bioware needs to provide a real MMO for these "real mmo players".

 

Seriously though, responses like this only serve to alienate the players. As soon as we criticize your "perfect" game, we are "crying" lol? So we can't say anything about the game, unless to say its great? Get real please.

 

I agree, there's not really much MMO about this game at all.

Crafts can be maxed in days without the aid of anyone, space battles are single player, can level to max without ever seeing anyone or talking to anyone, travel is single-player, gear can be obtained through questing and random world drops...

[Damia-Eden]

Sorry, your problem is more fundamental--it cannot be solved in this game. They have spent so much time making me feel like a powerful Sith/Jedi that I find it absolutely jarring to be defeated by anything. I despise the grouping element feeling that a solo game with instances and AH is actually a better design. The instances are fantastic in my book. I actually hate the high respawn areas created to service 100+ people in my server instances. I'd prefer the whole game be one instance.

 

I don't think you can say I'm a big boogie man Sith and then turn around and have me group with 5 people. The only reason it works for me in woW is that they have succesfully made the story so ludicrous and stupid that my connection with my character has nothing whatever to do with roleplaying. She's just pixels. The more decisions and the more a game involves me, the less it will suceed as an MMO because the MMOs just make absolutely no sense (there's 10 jedi all doing the same dang thing, ***?).

 

Personally, I've wondered how a solo MMO could work with subscriptions and monthly downloadable content. I think they actually didn't get brave enough and just accept their own model.

 

I will add my voice to the chap who pointed out that speaking voices should not be used for non-storyline quests. Someone speaking should be my hint that something important is going on. That need not, of course, be only class quests; but it should be only multi-part quests that are telling some kind of story or asking me to make some serious decisions.

[Dazgra]

You have some good points OP, sorry you have to deal with the bioware defense force.

[ShonaChaos]

Yeah. Right now what you have are publishers and developers trying to get some of WoW's market, so they are making games that are like WoW. The problem is that it's very hard to out-WoW WoW itself -- WoW will always be better at being WoW. But, because WoW's market is so large (and this is unique in MMOs), people are going to keep trying to get that market -- especially EA, which will keep doing this to compete with Activision.

 

I think that the reality is that WoW is an outlier, and that the average MMO is more of a niche market, with a realistic goal of 300-500k subscribers for a very good MMO. The trouble is that relatively few publishers/investors are going to develop a AAA cost structure game for that level of stable subscribers when WoW has millions of subscribers. In other words, it would be possible for a differently-designed MMO to reach, say, 300k subs by making it more of a niche game with gameplay that is different from WoW -- but you'd have to have a realistic target, and know the market niche you are designing for. As of now, most developers and publishers are "playing it safe" and replicating WoW, while the MMOs that have different designs tend to be indie developed and not AAA titles.

 

I think we can agree that most of the best games we have played are the games that keep around 300k-1M subscribers. Games that can create a good community will have subscribers. Community is what keeps people interested. I feel no community at all with this game. Actually, there are times I'm the only person on the entire planet I'm on. I think localizing servers is a bad idea. Worlds should be active 24 hours a day, not just in peak hours. I don't think people can rationalize spending 15 dollars a month to play a single player game

[krinaman]

Can someone tell me what MMO had lots of people all over the world?

 

Any I played had many in the starter areas and a bunch at the level cap area.

 

WoW is a ghost town leveling.

 

Rift, with it's postage stamp size world is a ghost town.

 

Please, tell where this "MMO like" game is

[Dalex]

You have some good points OP, sorry you have to deal with the bioware defense force.

 

Thanks. What's jarring is that this so called "bioware defense force" as you eloquently put it is only hurting the game by telling anyone who disagrees with this being the end all be all of games is a troll/whiner.

 

I've followed this game since its announcement. Do you really think I just want to see it fail? I want it to succeed, but the way its going, its not going to, because they have banked on the wrong elements. Stop for a second and think of what this game would be like if the Star Wars IP wasn't present...