I know its too late to say this but..

[GellonSW]

How about you give us a list of RPG's you've played over the past year so we can get an idea of what your comparing it to.

 

That ranks up there with "Let's see you make a better game" as awful fallacious arguments.

[Telendria]

Actually the entire premise for this thread is wrong. You are saying that the decisions have no bearing on the direction of the quests and that for the majority of them is not the case.

 

Certainly class quests that lead to you getting a companion for instance are rail driven and you can only find a slightly different way to get there. For most other quests however that isnt the case, and your decisions drive who lives or dies, which elements of the story you might avoid or go further into. It determines which mobs you face, and if you resolve the problem through diplomacy, aggression or by subterfuge.

 

99% quests are on rails. In the end, it didn't matter if I saved the senate member from explosion or not, in the end it didn't matter if I shot the hostages as BH or not, heck, half of the quests, I always press the "I won't do it"/"I'd prefer different way" answers and it STILL somehow makes me do it how the game dictates, not the answers.

 

I think I saw like 4 quests on either side that actually HAD a choice of what Q I will do, but in the end, the followup was still the same.

Edited January 31, 2012 by Telendria

[acheros]

99% quests are on rails. In the end, it didn't matter if I saved the senate member from explosion or not, in the end it didn't matter if I shot the hostages as BH or not, heck, half of the quests, I always press the "I won't do it"/"I'd prefer different way" answers and it STILL somehow makes me do it how the game dictates, not the answers.

 

I think I saw like 4 quests on either side that actually HAD a choice of what Q I will do, but in the end, the followup was still the same.

 

! reading comprehension ahoy!

[Florial]

I agree with the OP in a way. The stories seem to have the same outcome with slight variations. For example, I'm playing a lightsided SI and hubby is playing a dark sided one. I made a lightside choice on one class quest and thought that I had saved the day with a sunny outcome for everyone. The end of the story turned out the same way at the very end (not going to be specific here because I hate spoilers). It was a bit disappointing that there was the same outcome for both of us making drastically different choices.

 

With that said though, I'm really enjoying the game and have 3 different characters I'm working on and looking forward to their stories. I also like the companions and their stories. Admittedly, doing the same generic quests on each planet is getting a bit old so we've decided to really concentrate on one set of characters so we don't need to repeat all the same old quests for a bit. I would have loved to see more leveling areas since the leveling path seems pretty linear to me.

Edited January 31, 2012 by Florial

[grania]

This thread came from general, didn't it..

[Dracocuhz]

So I read through almost all the responses in this thread and I could not believe that there is no one that stated, who cares about a story?? This is strickly my personal opinion however, any game I have ever played, I played because of the actual "game play". For example, I enjoy when my BH flies up into the air and rains down missiles on NPCs, some times killing the whole group before I am done casting. There have only been a couple of quests that I actually listened through without hitting my spacebar.

 

I was just curious if the majority of players in MMOs play for a story. If that's the case read a book, a video game will never come even close to the immersion that you will find while reading an amazing story.

[LoneRebel]

Um. Lemme just point out something, mmmkay.

 

Of course we all want the story to be even more complex than it already is.

 

The game client's size is already 27 GB. How large would it be if the story was expanded?

 

Count your blessings. It's not the end of the world that the story is more linear than you wanted.

 

everyone who says the play for the story are actually saying that they play 1 hour a week and havent hit lvl 30 yet. All aspects of this game are crap, story included.

 

I love how elitist and condescending this sounds. Okay, so you are a top-ranked pro gamer because you reached 50 in two days. And then you complain that the game sucks?

 

Or he, you know, finds the game enjoyable despite the bad storylines.

 

AMAZING ISN'T IT!?

 

Actually, I'm pretty sure he said that "all aspects of the game are crap."

Edited January 31, 2012 by LoneRebel
Added new content.

[Slopback]

All MMO has the same thing. You level 1 character to 50 with a series of quests. You will see the same quests when you level another alt. It goes on and on.

 

In before I'm called a WoW fanboi, but in WoW you can level at least 4 characters with questing without going to the same areas (and WoW areas have their own stories as well, just not in a form of voice acting). I'm just sayin'.

[acheros]

Um. Lemme just point out something, mmmkay.

 

Of course we all want the story to be even more complex than it already is.

 

The game client's size is already 27 GB. How large would it be if the story was expanded?

 

Count your blessings. It's not the end of the world that the story is more linear than you wanted.

 

While the file size is true..I'd just like to point out that I never once said this was

 

A) the end of the world

B) going to ruin the game

C) the reason I quit

D) that I quit at all.

[Florial]

So I read through almost all the responses in this thread and I could not believe that there is no one that stated, who cares about a story?? This is strickly my personal opinion however, any game I have ever played, I played because of the actual "game play". For example, I enjoy when my BH flies up into the air and rains down missiles on NPCs, some times killing the whole group before I am done casting. There have only been a couple of quests that I actually listened through without hitting my spacebar.

 

I was just curious if the majority of players in MMOs play for a story. If that's the case read a book, a video game will never come even close to the immersion that you will find while reading an amazing story.

 

I'm an avid reader and agree that many things can't come close to a good book. With that said though, I'm not sure why we can't expect the same in our video games. Of course games will never replace my books but they should have the ability to pull you in and captivate you from the start.

 

I've played many single players games that have had a pretty good story to them--Balder's Gate, the Ultima series, the Sierra games, etc. More recently, I remember starting Dragon Age and being absolutely engrossed in the stories. First time that I was really pulled in and captivated. SWTOR takes a close second for me and I've really enjoyed the class storylines and genuinely want to know what happens next. If it wasn't for the strong storylines, I'm not sure that I would have picked up this game in the first place. I'm rather neutral for a sci-fi universe but have really enjoyed what I've seen so far.

 

I'm not sure but would suspect that many players who do play this game are enjoying the story. Game play is also important since story runs out at some point. Story seems to be a strong selling point of this game though.

[acheros]

I'm an avid reader and agree that many things can't come close to a good book. With that said though, I'm not sure why we can't expect the same in our video games. Of course games will never replace my books but they should have the ability to pull you in and captivate you from the start.

 

I've played many single players games that have had a pretty good story to them--Balder's Gate, the Ultima series, the Sierra games, etc. More recently, I remember starting Dragon Age and being absolutely engrossed in the stories. First time that I was really pulled in and captivated. SWTOR takes a close second for me and I've really enjoyed the class storylines and genuinely want to know what happens next. If it wasn't for the strong storylines, I'm not sure that I would have picked up this game in the first place. I'm rather neutral for a sci-fi universe but have really enjoyed what I've seen so far.

 

I'm not sure but would suspect that many players who do play this game are enjoying the story. Game play is also important since story runs out at some point. Story seems to be a strong selling point of this game though.

 

Simple, the average MMO player wants Dr Seuss, not Shakespeare.

Most of the people here defending the story so much wouldn't be able to wrap their minds around a story more complex then hop on pop.

[noire]

The storyline re-playability is crap. Play it once, its all the same with little difference.

the differences are often as shallow as "fight NPC #12656" vs "Dont fight NPC #12656"

the choices are shallow and meaningless save for slightly different dialog.

 

How would I fix that? Branched storylines, not just dialog trees. Make it so that if you press 1 for a dialog choice, it becomes a slightly different story then if you press 2.

 

Do I think this will happen? No, its too late, it would require an entire over-haul of the entire game, voice actors to be brought in again, I know it will never happen. But I'm still unsatisfied that the story is so controlled..

 

 

Quest A - Being the first class quest you get on a planet.

That is the chain for choosing the first option through out every single quest.

Quest A, has the choice of 1 and 2. Choice 1 and 2 leads to either quest B and C. I pick choice number 1.

Quest B, has the chocie of 3 and 4. Choice 3 and 4 leads to quest D and E. I pick choice number 3.

Quest D, has the choice of 5 and 6. Choice 5 and 6 leads to quest F and G. I pick choice number 5.

Quest F, has the choice of 7 and 8. Choice 7 and 8 leads to quest H and I...

 

 

This is the chain for choosing the second option in the first quest and the first options in the subsequent quests.

Quest A, has the choice of 1 and 2. Choice 1 and 2 leads to either quest B and C. I pick choice number 2.

Quest C, has the choice of 9 and 10. Choice 9 and 10 leads to either quest J or K. I pick choice numer 9.

Quest J, has the choice of 11 and 12. Choice 11 and 12 leads to either quest L or M. I pick choice numer 11.

Quest L, has the choice of 13 and 14. Choice 13 and 14 leads to quest N or O. I pick choice numer 13... and so on and so forth.

 

Now with every 'ending quest' (lack of a better word to call them, the last quest in a quest chain) on each planet you will have 8 different endings to the class quest chain on that particular planet. 15 quests in total for each class and planet. 14 different choices that is supposed to alter the story. There are approximately 10 planet that has class quests (I might have forgotten one or so). Of course you could try and just branch the middle and bring it back to one ultimate goal in the last quest, but then you end up with the 'illusion of choice' anyway, cause no matter what you do you will still end up with the same results. So you're looking at 150 quests with unique story, dialogue and cut scenes through the entire game, for one class. Now multiply that with the 8 classes there are (4 for replublic and 4 for empire). Even with the poor 2 choices given in that example I fear that people would still play the "illusion of chocie" card...

[AscendantOps]

Although I've always been a Republic enthusiast, I admit the majority of the stories weren't that good as I and many others had hoped. Quotes of the Jedi Knights are so cheesy, it's almost always something like "These criminals will not stand a chance against a Jedi of the Republic". Totally absurd.

 

The only story chain I have really liked so far is that of Sith Warrior, though there are minor faults in it, too.

[LoneRebel]

Since you want a discussion, I'll give you one. I disagree with your OP. Of course I'd want the storyline to be even more complex, but I'm fine with it as it is. I know where to be satisfied. The amount of voice acting done is insane already. Even though sometimes the same result happens whichever dialogue choice I pick, I'd still replay it just to hear the other lines.

 

Besides, the story does change, if only slightly, depending on whether you're LS or DS, for example. Your alignment and also your species determines how people interact with you, which I find pretty interesting.

 

BW is aiming for a "canon ending" like in KOTOR, so the storyline has to be kinda linear. Also the eight class storylines have to agree and not contradict each other (since as I understand it, each of the eight classes is supposed to be a currently unnamed great person who lived during that period.)

 

Of course, alternate endings would be nice (since even KOTOR had non-canonical endings). But I'm satisfied as it is. I think BW plans to extend the story past level 50, which would make branching storylines and alternate endings extremely awkward to implement.

Edited January 31, 2012 by Moitteva
rude +replies

[Moitteva]

Hey Everyone,

 

We always appreciate your feedback as long as it is constructive, on-topic to the thread subject, and respectful of other community members.

 

We have recently had to remove and/or edit a substantial number of posts that were non-constructive, off-topic, and rude from this thread.

 

We'd like to ask everyone to take a moment and please see this thread from Allison Berryman regarding posting your feedback on the forums.

 

Here are a couple of things to keep in mind when you continue your discussion:

 

Insults and Rude Comments - You may not agree with what someone says but we do expect you to be respectful of others and their opinions. Being rude to them and insulting them is never allowed.

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Please use the flag button - If you come across a post that you think breaks the forum rules, please flag it so we can investigate it.

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We thank you for your effort in keeping this discussion constructive and respectful.

[Uruare]

...and illusion that works and is 100x more fun than just clicking quest givers as fast as possible and powering thru quests as fast as possible to get it over with.

 

IMO, if you don't like this style of game...the answer is clear. Don't play it. Crying about it or complaining about it is pretty ignorant. Or playing something you claim to not like...is genius for sure. I'd imagine the quality of player on the servers would improve if the people who don't really like the game just stopped playing (and posting, for that matter).

 

I like how they've done the questing, I don't get bored, and I even watch some of the dialogs several times (with different characters, voices, and responses since it's often amusing or entertaining). I space thru some of it too since I have a lot of alts and some stuff is more interesting/entertaining than others.

 

 

Your reasoning is flawed.

 

I would argue that the number that complain that wish to see the game improve are not inconsiderable. Quite possibly, the majority. Whether their intention is 'improve for me' or 'improve for everybody' or somehow admixtured effectively is, sadly, irrelevant.

 

Why is it irrelevant? Unless you're a developer of this or any MMO, your means to provide feedback with any hope of it being acknowledged begin at very nearly 0 and tend to only get worse from there.

 

It doesn't really matter how much you care or what you think, how good or how terrible your ideas are; the facts, with which few are, in some fashion or another, unaware, are thus.

 

But I guarantee you that if everybody with a complaint up and left, the developers would be out quite possibly their best resource for figuring a lot of bug and balance issues out on Test and Live servers alike.

 

I further guarantee that a great deal of the improvements neither the developing studio nor the publisher could reasonably afford to devote payrolled staff to using and abusing as hard as players tend to use and abuse systems and their mechanisms wouldn't happen nearly so quickly, if at all in some cases, if not for the determinations of the dissatisfied.

 

So please, don't confuse complaining or being dissatisfied for being worthless. Fundamentally, you are absolutely wrong. As an unfortunate secondary, the presentations of these complains and dissatisfactions is often unhelpful.

 

So what it really seems you're disliking are poor methods of complaining.

 

If you can understand that many of those poor methods are the result of the vast majorities very likely not feeling at all like anything they could possibly say would be heard, you might lay grasp to a better situated comprehension of why they do as they do.

 

Quite a few developers repeatedly state in their replies and posts that they value community feedback, that it's vital to their improving the game to be the game we collectively want it to be, so on, so forth.

 

Frankly, I don't think they're lying; if they're actually taking raw concepts out of all this drek that a forum winds up being, good on them. Sifting the gold out of the mountains of slag and mud can very well be worth the bother.

 

If they're just being political and issuing politically disarming statements (which I do not personally believe is exclusively the case, though the benefits do not seem necessarily exclusive between either intention), they might at least disarm some of the clamboring to be heard on the parts of the assembled masses.

 

What's ironic is that organized and civilized feedback would be the most substantially ideal for their interests, and despite this being a very easily referenced fact (if not commonly known), one will almost never see players in such games organize themselves and create amongst themselves their own systems of civil interaction with the developing parties.

 

Imagine how much both playerbase and developer interests could get done if there came, in such a game as this, to exist a reasonably structured assembly of players committed to giving feedback on even one system in the game.

 

A little bit of organization and basis for common ground can unify voices and, yes, put a certain degree of power into the players' hands.

 

The power to be heard. The power to provide genuinely valuable feedback to the developers. The power to change the game they're playing.

 

One person kicking the wall on a forum isn't at all like to amount to much no matter how they kick or how eloquently and intelligently they post anything. Speaking from personal experience, I've been in both pairs of shoes, have known many others that were as well.

 

Individually, we're very ignorable, and worse than merely ignorable, very easy to miss and very difficult to take into consideration for the practical fact of that no matter what one person thinks, it is still what one person thinks.

 

Get a few hundred or even a few thousand people together, get them organized just a little bit and get them to focus on hashing over points of concern and working on coming up with what to change and suggestions of how as well as what to leave alone and I'd be wiling to bet my shoes that that would be a player organized resource many developers would swim up waterfalls to have.

 

Much of anything otherwise or less and...well, they kinda have to (no matter how kind they are not to ever say as much) treat us a lot like lab rats a great deal of the time in order for anything to get done at all.

Edited January 31, 2012 by Uruare

[Intarabus]

Two aspects for me:

 

Is the story content good?

 

- I am playing a Jedi consular and are about in mid-game. I think the general task momentarily is a bit repetitive, but I am finishing part one. Personally I dig more the stories about how to save the different planets, and some side quests have very good stories, often even better then the main one.

 

Is story building good?

 

- I would also have the side quests more branched, but it is clear, that in a game of this size some those things are very hard to do. I never was really good at math, but it is clear, that, if you had some choices in a quest on the first planet would affect what happens on every later planet, you could get hundreds of endings. So, it is basically a "reset" if you go to another planet. Older quests are at hold, and you do something totally new.

Perfect example how to do this was Morrowind/Oblivion: affecting what you did and with whom you ally, you could never do some quests or some NPC were pissed when you talk to them. But the many possibilities also led to that there are nearly no cut scenes and stuff.

Otherwise, both KOTOR games were not so much more complex than TOR. There were some side quests, where you had to visit several planets, but they did not get deep. KOTOR 2 was in way open more open to choices, but to the effort there was just one ending regardless what you do before finishing.

 

But what I would like to have more in TOR is Character-attributed stuff.

There should be quests, that you could get only if you are light side, or dark side, or neutral, and their should be species-based quests (since, so far, it did not occur to me that species choice had really effect).

 

Last point: replayability. I think it is good, because you have 8 classes to pick and all the companions. But I would have liked, if there had been also 8 starting planets instead of 4, because of the side quests. For example, if I go Jedi Knight after my Consular, for level built-up I practically have to do the same non-class quests again.

Edited January 31, 2012 by Intarabus

[acheros]

Since you want a discussion, I'll give you one. I disagree with your OP. Of course I'd want the storyline to be even more complex, but I'm fine with it as it is. I know where to be satisfied. The amount of voice acting done is insane already. Even though sometimes the same result happens whichever dialogue choice I pick, I'd still replay it just to hear the other lines.

 

And you, and everyone else(myself included) are perfectly entitled to agree or disagree with whatever you want. In fact, I'm HAPPY that you're perfectly satisfied with it. I'm not going to flame you, or call you stupid or anything like that for enjoying something I do not, thats just asinine. But so is insulting something for not liking something you do. See how that works?

 

Yes, the amount of voice acting is absolutely brilliant, most of the voices fit perfectly although there are a few flaws(Why does a body type 4 zabrak sound exactly the same as a body type 1 human?) the voice acting is one of my favorite parts! it makes the game easier to get immersed in.

 

Besides, the story does change, if only slightly, depending on whether you're LS or DS, for example. Your alignment and also your species determines how people interact with you, which I find pretty interesting.

They don't change the story, they change the dialog. That is vastly different. and even then its usually only one or two lines! As a sith inquisitor, for instance. They'll call you things like alien if you're anything but a human.

 

BW is aiming for a "canon ending" like in KOTOR, so the storyline has to be kinda linear. Also the eight class storylines have to agree and not contradict each other (since as I understand it, each of the eight classes is supposed to be a currently unnamed great person who lived during that period.)

and yet, KOTOR DID have a branching story! isn't that AMAZING!? being lightside or darkside in KOTOR drastically altered the story to the point that everyone I know played it twice just to experience them both.

 

Of course, alternate endings would be nice (since even KOTOR had non-canonical endings). But I'm satisfied as it is. I think BW plans to extend the story past level 50, which would make branching storylines and alternate endings extremely awkward to implement.

and I hope you continue to be fully satisfied, I do. I however am not.

[Intarabus]

and yet, KOTOR DID have a branching story! isn't that AMAZING!? being lightside or darkside in KOTOR drastically altered the story to the point that everyone I know played it twice just to experience them both.

 

But the thing that really made a decision of the outcome was late in the game. Before, you could choose basically between 2 storylines on each planet - light one and dark one.

[acheros]

But the thing that really made a decision of the outcome was late in the game. Before, you could choose basically between 2 storylines on each planet - light one and dark one.

 

Still more then you get in SWTOR unless you play multiple classes.

 

Personally, I'd be perfectly satisfied with 4 per class. 2 per AC, 2 per alignment. Yea, its alot to ask for, that would be 32 right there. As I said, I don't expect it. But that would could me, personally, perfectly satisfied.

 

Not to mention it would make tuning those missions for the class much easier. You don't have to tune it around DPS, ranged, healer, AND tank. You'd have to tune them around, say..tank or DPS, DPS or healer, healer or tank..All depending on AC.

Edited February 1, 2012 by acheros
math was off.

[ultimatesjk]

The story is great! Dont know what you guys are talking about. Ok, so maybe a lot of the decisions you make in the game don't count for much, but many do and those that don't, its because Bioware wanted a certain thing to happen to all players (I'm a Sith Warrior, so I'll use obtaining my first Sith Warblade as an example. The game was designed so that no matter what, anyone who plays as a Sith Warrior will eventually obtain that Warblade.) The game gives you a lot of freedom, but if too much freedom is given the player will find him/herself backed into a corner late game when all they have to fight with is the original weapon you first get at the beginning.

[NevermoreXIII]

I still enjoy the different chat options, but ive noticed playing some of the toons multiple times (switched servers) that option 1 and option 2 for example get the same response from the NPC. So a lot of the dialogue is not story based, its just how your response affects your character or companion.

[Zaxem]

everyone who says the play for the story are actually saying that they play 1 hour a week and havent hit lvl 30 yet. All aspects of this game are crap, story included.

 

i got almost 3 lvl 50's i'm playing for story and gameplay and The story is the best part imo nothing i really hate about this game i love the pvp especially way better than wow or rift for me

[Chanez]

everyone who says the play for the story are actually saying that they play 1 hour a week and havent hit lvl 30 yet. All aspects of this game are crap, story included.

 

ive leveld to 50 and i still love the story dont know what your talking about

[depizan]

Personally, I'd be perfectly satisfied with 4 per class. 2 per AC, 2 per alignment. Yea, its alot to ask for, that would be 32 right there. As I said, I don't expect it. But that would could me, personally, perfectly satisfied.

 

 

I would love this.

 

I'm enjoying the hell our of what we've got, mind, but there are times when the fact that the light side/dark side choices don't have story-line consequences make me wonder if people in this galaxy are just a bit dim. I don't exactly mind making up reasons why my light side Imperial Agent has somehow not gotten hauled before Imperial Intelligence to explain his repeated acts of treason (or at least serious failure to obey orders), but, at the same time, it would be nice if someone in the Empire noticed (in game) that he's failed to kill people, let unknown numbers of force users wander off, and generally should be in very big trouble.

Edited February 1, 2012 by depizan