BlastTyrentt Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 (edited) so been pvping with concealment agent in 50's bracket and kind of alarmed to the big picture of it. Resolve element, ,,,so we have low armor and can't protect ourselves with our stuns? So we have to wait on cool downs with stuns, deal with resolve AND you nerf our openner?? At least in warcraft when you had rogue with low armor if you were decent player then you had utility moves like, blind, kidney shot, gouge..... here you have to start swapping licks with other dps thats wearing heavy? Granted we have shield probe and evasion(3 sec duration), I find that to be hardly enough to swap licks with multiple heavy wearers that through same amount of dps:confused: But then they nerfed our openner. Just not feeling alot of love for this class from bio right now. This is great game and bioware has actually treated me very well and gave me an extra free copy of the game for a problem where they didn't deliver the original as they should have. So i can't really complain , just have to roll another class if i'm not digging this one. But I played the rogue on WoW for many years and did very successful in arena and the thing I know about melee stealth dps is you are given stuns to make up for lack of armor and good players that can utilize these moves well make up for the lack of armor. For example in wow if you see 2 guy's you could open up on one with 4 sec no dps stun, blind the other for (10 sec or till dmged) and then throw down with the original. Now I know this game isnt warcraft and I don't expect it to be. But don't go nerfing my openner when after that I have no way to not get in a lick swapping match with a heavy wearer, other then vanish. (if it's cooled down). It's a hard problem to work out. But if you can do same dps and be a heavy why wouldent you, unless you are just an enthusiast for the class like myself Edited January 29, 2012 by BlastTyrentt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kresse Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 The primary complaint was that Concealment was capable of utterly destroying almost anyone before they could even get back up off the ground. If we popped out with whatever ability, stun upon stun upon stun await us so we'd tend to die anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlastTyrentt Posted January 29, 2012 Author Share Posted January 29, 2012 (edited) The primary complaint was that Concealment was capable of utterly destroying almost anyone before they could even get back up off the ground. If we popped out with whatever ability, stun upon stun upon stun await us so we'd tend to die anyway. Understandable and was a legit issue but that's not really main issue here, issue i really wanted to discuss is low armor and resolve/stuns, such as flashbang and debilitating strike. But just to address nerfing issue. WoW had same problem one time. They nerfed the dmg of original openner and left the stun at 4 sec like it has been for seven years. They never had any other problem with it. And stun after stun after stun? Don't let um stack, If you use another stun before 1st is done with then make it wasted, it's that simple. So now there's new problem , as of now its same dps amount but heavy armor vs. low armor and heavy has stuns (or doesn't) just like low. Anyone that believes we maybe gimped now? Edited January 29, 2012 by BlastTyrentt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JColquhoun Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Stealthers have always had the potential to wtfpwn people when attacking from stealth. It's one of the few reasons to roll a stealther to begin with. Big damage when attacking from stealth plus the ability to get away if you get caught out of stealth. I don't understand why it's such a big issue in this game. The only thing I can think of is that the new generation "pvpers" is just a bunch of crybabies who think anyone they can't kill is overpowered. You should be grateful this isn't Shadowbane, where a thief or rogue assassin backstabbing you while you sit would almost certainly kill you in a couple shots. So they've taken away our ability to wtfown from stealth. Have they given us more survivability or increased our sustained DPS? no. They've gimped us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlastTyrentt Posted January 29, 2012 Author Share Posted January 29, 2012 (edited) Stealthers have always had the potential to wtfpwn people when attacking from stealth. It's one of the few reasons to roll a stealther to begin with. Big damage when attacking from stealth plus the ability to get away if you get caught out of stealth. I don't understand why it's such a big issue in this game. The only thing I can think of is that the new generation "pvpers" is just a bunch of crybabies who think anyone they can't kill is overpowered. You should be grateful this isn't Shadowbane, where a thief or rogue assassin backstabbing you while you sit would almost certainly kill you in a couple shots. So they've taken away our ability to wtfown from stealth. Have they given us more survivability or increased our sustained DPS? no. They've gimped us. Agreed brother. They listened to griefers and now we are gimped. Much rather my dps toon be arsonel merc or even engineer now Edited January 29, 2012 by BlastTyrentt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlastTyrentt Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 Anyone else with input? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vallowen Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 The primary complaint was that Concealment was capable of utterly destroying almost anyone before they could even get back up off the ground. If we popped out with whatever ability, stun upon stun upon stun await us so we'd tend to die anyway. WRONG this is FALSE this is the type of post that is fuelling all the misinformation on this board an Operative CANNOT stun you back to back. Sleeping Dart, Debilitate, Jarring Strike all give 100% resolve. you cannot use any of them twice on a target you get stunned ONCE. you trinket it, you win its that easy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donnjon Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Go ahead and start flameing me but I say what I have to say. My main is a BH But also play a low-mid lvl Op. (almost 30) I wont say I understand high lvl IA but I do have a little understanding of what I'm saying. These Cevats aside the opener dmg had to be changed. Anyone that says anything else is just a lamer that wanted to play an OP class. Everyone knew this was comeing. But with the weakened opener that have failed to make up for it anywhere else, which I hope the fix soon, but even so we are far from being gimped. Now its not auto kill when comeing out of stealth. Short of someone getting off soem quick massive crit heals you still fighting someone with at best half their heath to start with. P.S. Noone was saying that you use the same stun twice in a row. But with the number of .them we have we can and do chain them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlastTyrentt Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 Go ahead and start flameing me but I say what I have to say. My main is a BH But also play a low-mid lvl Op. (almost 30) I wont say I understand high lvl IA but I do have a little understanding of what I'm saying. These Cevats aside the opener dmg had to be changed. Anyone that says anything else is just a lamer that wanted to play an OP class. Everyone knew this was comeing. But with the weakened opener that have failed to make up for it anywhere else, which I hope the fix soon, but even so we are far from being gimped. Now its not auto kill when comeing out of stealth. Short of someone getting off soem quick massive crit heals you still fighting someone with at best half their heath to start with. P.S. Noone was saying that you use the same stun twice in a row. But with the number of .them we have we can and do chain them Please don't use broken english in my post and experienced IA only post plzzz:cool: ty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwiz Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Yeah. I'm curious how its all going to play out. With these nerf's, are you other Op's going 31 Concealment? Im trying to look at the nerf positively, it may open up some new specs based on play style. Previously, the top tier skills were too good to pass on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nizel Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Just go into lethality for slip away. We will simply have to stunlock using debilitate now. The only aspect of the nerf that really bothers me is acid blade. The potency of a competent tank/healer duo was on display prominently on Darth Malak. This will certainly become a major issue now as we were part of that counter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonias Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Same ******** here as in all the other posts about this, people STILL (after they utterly destroyed concealment) feel the need to say that our class was OP and that the nerf was justified. Simple facts really: Stunlock? DOESNT HAPPEN. You stun for 3s with ur opener then you CANNOT STUN AGAIN FOR 8s (or 10s I am not 100% sure). People are so dumb playing this game they think that an IMMOBILIZE (2s, usually breaks after 1) equals a stun... please you can still stun us, send us flying or even attack us... People have been complaining for WEEKS about a stunlock that doesn't even exist. Yet Bioware still listens to them... It's as if they don't even have any fkin data on what they nerf and only listen to the 80% population of Mercenaries/Sorcs (and equivalent) because of their numbers they can QQ louder than anyone else! It's not hard to understand why 80% of pvpers are Mercenaries/Sorcs, it's because that with no skills you can still be almost the first in damage with those classes... Operatives on the other hand required skill to play and timing instead of just spamming random buttons. They had a low popupation because you HAD to be good so the baddies playing Mercs/Sorcs got destroyed by good PLAYERS not an OP class and started QQing. TL;DR Good job Bioware for completly making your most original class completly useless in both PVP AND PVE... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlastTyrentt Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) It's not hard to understand why 80% of pvpers are Mercenaries/Sorcs, it's because that with no skills you can still be almost the first in damage with those classes... Operatives on the other hand required skill to play and timing instead of just spamming random buttons. They had a low popupation because you HAD to be good so the baddies playing Mercs/Sorcs got destroyed by good PLAYERS not an OP class and started QQing. TL;DR Good job Bioware for completly making your most original class completly useless in both PVP AND PVE... Amen brother, and thats coming from a wow arena rogue. Guess since we cant use skills with unique hard to play toons and be standouts, then we ALL should just roll sorcs and mercs and make bio nerf them too lol. Edited January 31, 2012 by BlastTyrentt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catnipkiller Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 going from being able to hit 3.2k max crit in pvp to now just hitting 2ks is a *********** joke its way more then a 20% nurf. why do we even stealth if we have a week *** opener now? I dont think there will be any patch to during back an ops dps. This game will turn out like rift where the tanks and healers do the most in pvp and every other class is pointless.The only reason i rolled ops was to " BURST DPS" now all ops do is "OK DPS". and i think we are now the most useless class in the game due to it being unpopular and just way to soft. I want the ability to re roll as sniper cuz im not *********** wasting anymore time in this game if your plan on making ops reroll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dygitalfyre Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I totally agree with the above post. After checking damages after the nerf here I am doing at least 30% overall less damage throughout a War zone. It is utterly typical of games to nerf the classes that actually require skill and cunning to do well in war zones and open PvP, if you even want to call the laughable existence that is Ilum that. Fix the end game before you start nerfing classes imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormacht Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I agree with all of you, as i play operative i noticed it takes skill and thought to defeat an opponent, in PVE i can take people two levels above me with certain combos it takes a few trial runs till you figure something out that will help you kill. In PVP as much as i played, i noticed once you pop everyone converges on you to kill you, it seems with this nerf you wont even be able to take one down before you die. i play an op. But yea it seems like a trend classes that require thought, strategy, and skill get nerfed. The people who complain have no strategy. I think even with old settings a person can kill the op np if the think of a strategy, this dumb down is not necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sufferingbob Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 i haven't even tried doing any PVP yet but this nerf was way out of line... if playing your op right you could kill elites without blowing any cool downs and what not. now.. I'm having a hard time just in PVE. elites are stomping me now. yeah my gear isn't the best but if you know how to play you can over come that. they need to fix this, or I'm going back to the %80 and play my sorcerer. concealment is now as useless as lethality..... and I'm no healer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeilish Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 It is a real shame this nerf, it really is massive overkill. Okay. Sure, nerf Hidden Strike by 20%, but the Acid Blade nerf completely gimps us against Heavy Armor which we struggled with anyway! Additionally the stun nerf now makes Hidden Strike virtually a joke, it's almost better to open with Backstab and Debilitate. What people never understood was that the Operative that hit their 11k health Sorc for 6.5k had the red-pvp buff, popped his Relics and an adrenal and THEN hit you. Can't blame us if you don't grab the side buffs and don't have any gear. (Tried this again post nerf, hit for 3.9k crit... what a joke) TL:DR This nerf is just Bioware giving into the bad majority of PvPers, nerf overkill is nerf overkill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RattyRattail Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Sniper here... I thought you guys were fine the way you were. I could survive the opener by an operative by using my break/knockback. I would be low health, 30%-40% depending on my reaction time, but that was perfectly acceptable to me. The other thing was that I would see an op coming from me who stealths... I would use my CC immunity and the stun would not go off on me thus giving me time to setup on the operative. The biggest problem that I believe they fixed was the amount of buff stacking that could be done which allowed the massive crits that you would see. I think, also, that because you are melee and in there face that people tend to "see" you do the damage to them. They have someone then to focus their rage on. With a sniper I get to stay back and plink away at them from a distance, so all they see is that some nameless entity just took half their health away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSinner Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 R.I.P. Operatives Sad but true... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CtzSnips Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Go ahead and start flameing me but I say what I have to say. My main is a BH But also play a low-mid lvl Op. (almost 30) I wont say I understand high lvl IA but I do have a little understanding of what I'm saying. These Cevats aside the opener dmg had to be changed. Anyone that says anything else is just a lamer that wanted to play an OP class. Everyone knew this was comeing. But with the weakened opener that have failed to make up for it anywhere else, which I hope the fix soon, but even so we are far from being gimped. Now its not auto kill when comeing out of stealth. Short of someone getting off soem quick massive crit heals you still fighting someone with at best half their heath to start with. P.S. Noone was saying that you use the same stun twice in a row. But with the number of .them we have we can and do chain them How can you comment on the operative opener when you don't even have it on your operative? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BinxDarkstar Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I personally think the nerf was warranted, but they really should have put some kind of balancing buff for the class to make up for it, cuz now they're crippled in a PVE environment. Makes me glad I rolled sniper, instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlastTyrentt Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 How can you comment on the operative opener when you don't even have it on your operative? lmao, busted, you blew his spot up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaegeo Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Post patch you could autowin against any light or med armor wearer if you got the jump on them. I DO agree that they should have buffed you elsewhere, but I still feel good ops will be just as dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dygitalfyre Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Look, what most people who cry about the old Op backstab was ridiculous. Most people crying are *********** healers anyways and if they had a clue how to play the game you would understand an OP is a BURST DAMAGE class. So simple solution to defeat them, spam heals, root/stun, line of sight, spam more heals and dot them. You win, **** is just dumb now there are Tank Juggernauts in Warzones doing as much damage at the end of a 15 minute game with nearly as much damage as an op. This coming from a rank 60 full pvp set op. The point of a burst DPS class is just that, not to engage in open battle with a *********** caster archetype or tank archetype for a 50 second battle. Now we are what... wannabe sith assassins, with cooldowns on our backstab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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