What do you do then, you spend ur WZ out of stealth throwing Corrosive Darts? How much damage you usually do in a good day in a WZ. Do you even bother running after people to Cull, or simply grenades and CD at a distance?

I had thought of that too, the problem with that is that most of the time in pvp people aren't immobile so if you need to stop to cast Kolto Injection in order to get a TA; First it costs a **** ton of energy, which you don't have a huge leeway of and Second, the guy you are trying to hit will be further than 10m range by then (which is Cull range). Getting a long range TA generation makes no sense if our abilities stay at 10m range Cull/Weakening Blast. You'd be able to generate TA then have to close up in order to do any damage? not very good.

I am not an expert in Lethality but personally I would ditch the backstabs entirely. It would make you save energy since you are not speccing in the +dmg and the -energy costs in concealment. HS > Shiv > WB > CG > CD > Cull > Cull (It' still 6 GCD before using ur TAs) I personally think that to stay within the "original idea" behind the spec, the best design would be to allow ur dots to generate TA (For example when CD ticks twice from the talent) on a random basis, much like Kolto Probe does for the heal spec. The balance then needs to be done around the cooldown.

Again, I don't think that's quite a good idea. We still need a energy dump without a CD that does moderate damage. Other classes have it and NEED it. I understand the point that dps is currently on par with concealment, but that is purely in a PVE situation because the dps in PVP is really inconsistant. Yes you will reach 300k with both spec with good gear, but only in the games where you don't get focused etc. etc. This is why I was suggesting a TA generation to Weakening Blast. It is not an ability that does extreme damage, it still costs a good ammount of energy and it is on a 15s Cooldown. I do not think a 15s CD ranged TA generation would affect the dps that much since we still can only pick up 2 TA.

Well then I think the best idea would be to add a refun TA ability like for example Collateral Strike does? When Cull hits a poisoned target, there is a chance it will refund the TA. Cannot occur more than once every 6s.

I disagree, giving Lethality a ranged TA generation wouldn't put them over the Concealment because they are 2 really different specs. Concealment is very high upfront opening burst while Lethality is a ramp-up or a build-up burst dmg. It would in no way make them the OP ranged spec since we are not talking 30m range TA move but most likely 10-15m. Even snipers as Lethality do a **** ton more damage than Ops as Lethality. As previously stated it makes no sense that our DoTs are 30m range while our other abilities are melee or 10m. You can throw your dots from 30m range but to do any kind of damage you need to be melee to generate TA. This spec needs a AT LEAST 10m ranged TA generation move. (either ranged shiv but I would prefer Weakening Blast since it's so high anyway and it's on a 15s CD so you would STILL have to be somewhat close in order to do repeated damage).

Oh my... that also seems like a very good idea, I had not thought of that. Dot's generating TA might be a little strong depending on the internal cooldown the ability has. But definately, Cull granting a TA back on a let's say 6s CD basis seems like a really good idea too.

I know this is the Scoundrel Forums, that is why I would like to point to my original post in the Operative Forums because I would like your thoughts on this matter: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=4314199#post4314199

I wanna hear feedback on that idea (don't know if this has been proposed yet). I have been messing around quite a bit as Lethality on my Operative because I grew tired of the knife and to be honest, I noticed it lacked something if this build were to revolve around the gun instead of the knife. What this build needs in my opinion is a Tactical Advantage generating move that is ranged. So I figured that adding a Tactical Advantage generating effect on Weakening Blast would not be such a buff that it would throw Lethality to be top of the charts while it would still give more sense to the build. Also (I might be dreaming), but it would make sense to make Cull and Weakening Blast at least 20m range instead of the 10 we have now. The other moves this build revolve around are all 30m range (Corrosive Grenade and Poison Dart), it would make sense that we don't have to move to "melee" range to use our other 2 abilities (Cull and Weakening Blast). The rotation might look something like this: HS > Weakening Blast > Corrosive Dart > Corrosive Grenade > Cull > Cull (And then depending if the target is in melee range or running away, wait for Weakening Blast cooldown or Shiv and then Cull again) TL;DR Weakening Blast now generates 1 Tactical Advantage.

All I can hear from this thread is: "QQQQQQQQQ I'm playing the easiest class in this game but I still got destroyed by someone with skillz! QQQQQQQ I want more cowbell!"

Same ******** here as in all the other posts about this, people STILL (after they utterly destroyed concealment) feel the need to say that our class was OP and that the nerf was justified. Simple facts really: Stunlock? DOESNT HAPPEN. You stun for 3s with ur opener then you CANNOT STUN AGAIN FOR 8s (or 10s I am not 100% sure). People are so dumb playing this game they think that an IMMOBILIZE (2s, usually breaks after 1) equals a stun... please you can still stun us, send us flying or even attack us... People have been complaining for WEEKS about a stunlock that doesn't even exist. Yet Bioware still listens to them... It's as if they don't even have any fkin data on what they nerf and only listen to the 80% population of Mercenaries/Sorcs (and equivalent) because of their numbers they can QQ louder than anyone else! It's not hard to understand why 80% of pvpers are Mercenaries/Sorcs, it's because that with no skills you can still be almost the first in damage with those classes... Operatives on the other hand required skill to play and timing instead of just spamming random buttons. They had a low popupation because you HAD to be good so the baddies playing Mercs/Sorcs got destroyed by good PLAYERS not an OP class and started QQing. TL;DR Good job Bioware for completly making your most original class completly useless in both PVP AND PVE...

"Nerf rock it's overpowered, but paper is fine. -Scissors" Come on guys must we go through all this again? MMOs have always worked in a way of rock/paper/scissors, some classe own other classes (or rather have advantages against) and some other classes get rocked by other classes. You think operatives are OP because they kill you? Let me tell you something, the same operative who opened on you to kill you in 3-4 shots (even if we exagerate) most likely let 5 people pass next to him without opening because that's what operatives DO! Operatives/Scoundrels CHOOSE their fights, thats the advantage of stealth! You will never see an operative open alone on a Juggernaut with 3 healers on him! But why not open on one of the healers who has it's attention some place else healing that juggernaut and not himself! Also if you look at the damage/kills/deaths charts at the end of matches, VERY RARELY the operatives/scoundrels are at the top. Other classes top the damage charts, other classes top the kill charts. The part where you are right tho is that usually an operative will have a very low DEATH count! Again that is because he CHOOSES his battles. Let me tell you that as an operative if I get caught out of stealth by a Consular/Sorceror, there is NO WAY I am gonna get out of this alive. Too much dots to blow up my Vanish, too much slow and ranged damage, no way. Am I crying that they are overpowered? NO! So stop the QQ.