Advanced Class Switching

[Darren_Kitlor]

Reasons to disallow AC switching;

~BW wants you to roll alts, BW wants to keep you playing as long as possible (which you can't fault them for they're a business) rolling a new character and leveling them up will consume more of your time, simple carrot on a stick model.

Why should their corporate interests over-ride my ability to enjoy the game?

 

~It would directly lead to a rise in ninja looting in pugs (which would exasperate the 'companion' issue) , although the same argument could be made for duel speccing I guess but the point is it wouldn't help

Everyone rolls need and class gear is very, very similar, regardless of advanced class. The differences in gear for Operative and Sniper are slightly higher endurance or cunning--but the differences are negligible and either advanced class can already have a spec that uses one or the other more.

 

~FotM rerolls would be crazy; 'omg they buffed sniper engineering!?!?' all the operatives re roll which in turn leads to more ninja looting as they desperately try to gear up their new snipers. Now I'm sure I'm going to get plenty of responses to this like 'I'd never do that' but lets face the truth here it will happen no matter how much indignation we have.

Truth is that the gear isn't that different for advanced classes--because they're in the same class.

 

~It will lead to people no knowing there class; Now I'm not in the best position right now to make that call in most people's eyes here because of my fundamental gaffe up above. But Like I said in my first post ACs are different (granted somewhat less so they then could be by sharing some abilities and having the same resource management), part of the leveling process is learning how to play your class you aren't going to get that with instant rerolls.

Do you really want a marauder who wants to try tanking despite never playing it before in marauder gear (trying to get some immortal gear in your pug) tanking for the first time ever with no idea what they're doing?

Would you rather have players who were never very good at the class leave the game (hurting the finances in your first point) because they don't want to replay the same story for dozens of hours?

 

~It takes away the meaning of the choice; By choosing to play an assassin you chose to play a primarily melee class with some (mostly instant cast proc based spells) with stealth and tanking options, if you want to play a healing spell caster you should have to level a healing spell caster like everyone else who wanted to play a healing spell caster did (and vice-versa).

How is my choice affecting your meaning?

 

Ultimately, if you feel this way, have the courage to not hit the respec option. I will enjoy my increased choices, thank you very much. I should not have to sacrifice my gameplay so that you can feel safer with meaning.

Edited December 17, 2011 by Darren_Kitlor

[Kanadaeh]

Why should their corporate interests over-ride my ability to enjoy the game?

 

.

 

^ LOL thank you for making me laugh.

[Crogga]

There needs to be a compromise with AC respec. I'm not enjoying my gunslinger and would like to try scoundrel. I have to spend two hours with the same story line and quests just to check that? It has zero entertainment value and it's two hours I could spend with my family. This is forced time sink garbage. I'm debating whether to even subscribe.

 

I do not believe you should be allowed at level 50. I think that's too much. But each AC is NOT a class- it's an ADVANCED class. It has the same base abilities, story and is EXACTLY the same for 10 levels. That's why it's called ADVANCED class.

Edited December 17, 2011 by Crogga

[jonostar]

It seems pretty simple to me. I don't have time to spend countless hours replaying content I have already seen. Not being able to switch advanced armor classes just means my subscription will be half as long as it could be.

 

There is literally no chance that I will ever have multiple characters on my account. Not because I wouldn't like to see the rest of the game but because I literally do not have time.

 

I also do not understand why anyone would be against being able to change. It's so unnecessarily obtuse. How on earth is your game harmed by giving choice to those who want it? Sounds like classic internet geekery to me.

 

I hope they can hotfix this in at a later date. I would really like to see what a Merc BH plays like.

[Maxii]

Im against AC switching but a bad misstake at lvl 10 or higher up would make u have to play a char all over again just to change your bad (new to the game had no idé) choise..

 

So a limit of 2 switches would be nice.. 1 for the first bad choise.. and a second switch if the first switch was even worse then the the first bad choise hehe... so when u make the last switch its final and from there the only option left is reroll if u really really think its a must..

 

Thats my idé about it.. since free switching is a bad idé since it would only lead to players not be able to play their class as they want to due to other players/groups/guilds demanding u just go respecc to be able to join a group/raid etc etc

Edited December 17, 2011 by Maxii

[LilTikiBoy]

It seems pretty simple to me. I don't have time to spend countless hours replaying content I have already seen. Not being able to switch advanced armor classes just means my subscription will be half as long as it could be.

 

There is literally no chance that I will ever have multiple characters on my account. Not because I wouldn't like to see the rest of the game but because I literally do not have time.

 

I also do not understand why anyone would be against being able to change. It's so unnecessarily obtuse. How on earth is your game harmed by giving choice to those who want it? Sounds like classic internet geekery to me.

 

I hope they can hotfix this in at a later date. I would really like to see what a Merc BH plays like.

 

Sounds to me like you don't have time for an mmo.

[JoshClay]

Im against AC switching but a bad misstake at lvl 10 or higher up would make u have to play a char all over again just to change your bad (new to the game had no idé) choise..

 

So a limit of 2 switches would be nice.. 1 for the first bad choise.. and a second switch if the first switch was even worse then the the first bad choise hehe... so when u make the last switch its final and from there the only option left is reroll if u really really think its a must..

 

Thats my idé about it.. since free switching is a bad idé since it would only lead to players not be able to play their class as they want to due to other players/groups/guilds demanding u just go respecc to be able to join a group/raid etc etc

I agree because late game you might not like your AC, so setting a Limit of 2 would prevent people from using AC as a dual spec. I wouldn't like to see people running around switching between both ACs without any consequences because they already have enough roles in their AC to compensate them.

Edited December 18, 2011 by JoshClay

[xioix]

i thought i could be a sith tank in pve and rdps in pvp but found out it's on diff acs...

[Smashbrother]

I think it would be totally great to be allowed to try out both ACs so you know which one you want. So like you can switch ACs up to level 50. But once you reach level 50, you HAVE to pick one and stick with it forever.

 

There needs to be a point where PLAYER CHOICE has to matter. That is why this game has light and dark decisions. If people can willy nilly swap ACs at will, then why can't people swap classes at will too. Why can't people swap their light and dark sides at will? Why can't people swap Empire or Republic at will? Actually that last one would be great since the Empire outnumbers Republic 2:1.

 

But you get my point.

[Morigin]

I'm sorry but the I don't want to replay through old content to play a different ac is garbage. I played a warlock In wow it has 3 talent trees not 6. If I wanted to play a Mage I would have to reroll and gasp play through all the same content my warlock did to experience the mages 3 trees. Ac's are not different specs they are different classes with different specs. If you want to try all the classes you have to reroll that is a part of being in an mmo it makes choosing your class meaningful. As long as each class is competitive and not broken there isn't a problem. Do your homework before you pick your ac there is enough information out there to make an informed decision before choosing

[Crogga]

Im against AC switching but a bad misstake at lvl 10 or higher up would make u have to play a char all over again just to change your bad (new to the game had no idé) choise..

 

So a limit of 2 switches would be nice.. 1 for the first bad choise.. and a second switch if the first switch was even worse then the the first bad choise hehe... so when u make the last switch its final and from there the only option left is reroll if u really really think its a must..

 

Thats my idé about it.. since free switching is a bad idé since it would only lead to players not be able to play their class as they want to due to other players/groups/guilds demanding u just go respecc to be able to join a group/raid etc etc

 

Totally agree.

It's not hurting anybody or anything by doing this. It has no affect on people that want to roll both ACs if that's what people want to do.

[Ekswing]

I will be completely disappointed if Bioware allows AC Swapping. I think that is a Terrible idea. As many have said, it is Advanced CLASSES. Not Advanced Spec. Not Advanced Build. Classes. The difference between them is huge.

 

Think hard on which AC to pick. If you feel like you made the wrong choice, it's only 10 levels. Buck up, and do it again. The game isn't even out yet, and we already have a million people crying because they want This and That changed. Just insulting.

Edited December 18, 2011 by Ekswing

[Jedi_Wannabe]

Is there any chance of seeing this added to the game?

 

As far as I know, there are no story differences between advanced classes--so there's no reason to prohibit it.

 

Yes. There's a chance.

 

There's no difference between the stories for now. Allowing AC switching would interfere with the ability to add AC specific stories later.

 

Allowing the stories to overlap has allowed the developers to focus on making 8 good stories instead of 16 bad ones. Just like having classes share a talent tree, and having factions mirror classes, allows the developers to focus on what amounts to 20 talent trees instead of 48.

 

If they're going to add AC switching, they might as well do away with ACs entirely and have 4 or 5 talent trees each for 4 classes.

[Crogga]

Yes. There's a chance.

 

There's no difference between the stories for now. Allowing AC switching would interfere with the ability to add AC specific stories later.

 

Allowing the stories to overlap has allowed the developers to focus on making 8 good stories instead of 16 bad ones. Just like having classes share a talent tree, and having factions mirror classes, allows the developers to focus on what amounts to 20 talent trees instead of 48.

 

If they're going to add AC switching, they might as well do away with ACs entirely and have 4 or 5 talent trees each for 4 classes.

 

Another throwing the baby out with the bathwater argument lol. I've heard people argue for doing away with ACs but I;m not for it.

 

The idea of preventing it because the devs might add AC specific stories I have to admit is the most creative I've heard and probably the best arguemnt I've heard IF that would ever happen. I never have heard of that being in the works at all.

 

Unfortunately I think they are busy enough without adding specific AC stories to the game. Even so- If they add the ability to change AC a couple of times prior to a certain level- say 20- they can still add AC stories after that level. It's not going to stop that from incorporating that.

[DarthGrimmlokk]

It's ridiculous to even consider AC switching. Would anyone advocate allowing people to switch from a warrior to a Mage in WoW? Would anyone advocate allowing people to switch from squig herder to a choppa in Warhammer? These proposals wouldn't even be considered.

 

A power tech BH plays much differently then a mercenary bounty hunter, just as a sith sorcerer is night and day different from a sith assassin. If they allowed AC switching there would be no reason to play anything but an inquisitor or BH. You'd be able to tank, heal, melee dps and ranged dps all in one class.

 

NO AC switching!

[Crogga]

I will be completely disappointed if Bioware allows AC Swapping. I think that is a Terrible idea. As many have said, it is Advanced CLASSES. Not Advanced Spec. Not Advanced Build. Classes. The difference between them is huge.

 

Think hard on which AC to pick. If you feel like you made the wrong choice, it's only 10 levels. Buck up, and do it again. The game isn't even out yet, and we already have a million people crying because they want This and That changed. Just insulting.

 

It's not going to kill you if they do. In fact it will help more people be attracted to the game. More people=more money. More money = more goodies.

Scenerio one- I switch between ACs a couple of times and can't decide beacuse both are cool. I decide then to roll both- love them both. More time played.

Scenerio two- Joe Blow has a busy life and family. Loves SW. Always wanted to play Han Solo. He rolls scoundrel and hates it. Changes AC. Loves gunslinger. Keeps playing keeps paying.

 

I see no downside even after reading 20 threads about this subject.

[LilTikiBoy]

It's not going to kill you if they do. In fact it will help more people be attracted to the game. More people=more money. More money = more goodies.

Scenerio one- I switch between ACs a couple of times and can't decide beacuse both are cool. I decide then to roll both- love them both. More time played.

Scenerio two- Joe Blow has a busy life and family. Loves SW. Always wanted to play Han Solo. He rolls scoundrel and hates it. Changes AC. Loves gunslinger. Keeps playing keeps paying.

 

I see no downside even after reading 20 threads about this subject.

 

scenario three- all the joe blows switch to a class so they can try out other aspecs of the game, resulting in said joes taking the gear from the people who enjoyed the game before the joes screwed with it. now everyone else quit because its frustrating dealing with all the joes. Joes decide on what class they want to play and now have a mountain of useless stuff that could have went to the people who deserved it and nobody to play with.

[Crogga]

scenario three- all the joe blows switch to a class so they can try out other aspecs of the game, resulting in said joes taking the gear from the people who enjoyed the game before the joes screwed with it. now everyone else quit because its frustrating dealing with all the joes. Joes decide on what class they want to play and now have a mountain of useless stuff that could have went to the people who deserved it and nobody to play with.

 

That makes no sense.

[LilTikiBoy]

That makes no sense.

 

im trying to point out that catering to the masses is a bad idea, its where wow started to go wrong. you make content to easy it get old and boring. you make lvling to easy it gets pointless and repetitive. you start trying to balance the game around too many things and it becomes even more unbalanced.

 

adding an AC respec option not only makes the selection of the ACs pointless, it makes it so the storyline will forever stay the same (meaning no possible split in the future) it makes the greed problem already happening in games like this even more rampant (now people will roll on off-class gear too) and it makes the people who enjoyed the game before it was dumbed down grow tired of it, so they go play something else, costing the company money.

[Crogga]

im trying to point out that catering to the masses is a bad idea, its where wow started to go wrong. you make content to easy it get old and boring. you make lvling to easy it gets pointless and repetitive. you start trying to balance the game around too many things and it becomes even more unbalanced.

 

adding an AC respec option not only makes the selection of the ACs pointless, it makes it so the storyline will forever stay the same (meaning no possible split in the future) it makes the greed problem already happening in games like this even more rampant (now people will roll on off-class gear too) and it makes the people who enjoyed the game before it was dumbed down grow tired of it, so they go play something else, costing the company money.

 

Either you don't get the whole point counterpoint thing or you're just trolling. All these things have been answered already. I can't help ya bud.

[Wind_Chaser]

I'd pay RL money to switch my AC if I hated the one I picked to avoid having to reroll .

[Juumanistra]

I will be completely disappointed if Bioware allows AC Swapping. I think that is a Terrible idea. As many have said, it is Advanced CLASSES. Not Advanced Spec. Not Advanced Build. Classes. The difference between them is huge.

 

Think hard on which AC to pick. If you feel like you made the wrong choice, it's only 10 levels. Buck up, and do it again. The game isn't even out yet, and we already have a million people crying because they want This and That changed. Just insulting.

 

It's not just ten levels. It's ten levels to get the AC. Then it's another ten levels to actually get the cornerstone rotational abilities and for your chosen spec within the AC to start coming together, so you can make an informed choice as to whether it's enjoyable. (Assuming you're playing something that starts coming together before L30. As opposed to things like the Combat Sentinel/Marauder, which doesn't really come into its own until the late-L30s.) That's a sizable expenditure of time on something that was being rolled because you, for whatever reason, wanted to try something different from your first AC.

 

"Think hard on which AC to pick," is piss-poor advice and cold comfort for those who've discovered, much to their horror, that as they've entered the mid-levels their AC just isn't fun for them. This can be laid rather squarely at the feet of the aforementioned late-blooming talent trees. No matter how hard you think about your AC, you have more or less zero chance of knowing how it'll actually play if you aren't the kind who goes reading class guides beforehand. Bioware essentially asks you to make the choice that defines your character after you've sunk 4-8 hours into the process based upon aesthetics and what role you might like to fill, rather than what kind of playstyle you find fun. This strikes me as a serious design flaw. Retooling the base classes so that you can, in your starting zone, dabble in the foundational work of each advanced class would go a long ways towards remedying that particular problem and cure a not-insubstantial amount of agitation for AC switching, as you'd have better sorting of playstyles and more rerolling at a point where's no real issue of sunk costs.

 

To head off the complaints of, "well, in other MMOs, you choose your class the same way!", all me to concur. The key difference is that, because of the fact you're logging more than a couple of hours in your base class, the impact of discovering you don't like your "class" is fundamentally different. In That Other MMO That Shall Not Be Named, logging five hours will take you deep enough into your class for you to get your core rotational abilities and let you see if you like the way the class handles. In TOR, for that same five hours, you've now just gotten your AC and are staring at another three to five to get the building blocks of your rotation. (Disclaimer: My experience is only with the Jedi Knight, which gave Soresu/Juyo Form at L14.) While I love the TOR experience, the advanced class system gives me flashbacks to Ragnarok Online: Having to grind through essentially ten levels of mechanical filler just to get to my main class was stupid almost a decade, and it's still stupid today.

 

Also: Why is suggesting changes a bad thing, exactly, Ekswing? Feedback from the player-base is important, and TOR's still a bit rough around the edges. Certainly can't hurt -- and is by no means "disgusting" -- to note areas where improvement could be made.

[skwrl]

It wouldn't be an improvement.

 

Oh, and this isn't going to happen. At least not like people are asking for it in this thread. There will not come a time when you can switch your class late in the game.

 

If someone has to explain to you why you can't switch classes in an MMO, then perhaps you just don't understand.

[iWopo]

I would love to see at least one chance to change my AC without having to start a whole new character.

 

I personally don't think anyone can get a real feel about how the class plays out until the lv 25 - 30 range. At level 10 you have one, maybe two abilities from your AC.

 

I chose Merc spec for my BH at lv 10. I read the description, looked through the talent trees, the whole nine yards. I just recently hit 25, and the further I progress, the less I am enjoying my AC.

 

I level another BH to try out Powertech, and the abilities flow better with my playstyle. I just don't like the idea of having to start ALL OVER. Its just a big waste of time that has a simple fix:

 

-- Allow the player the chance to change their AC choice ONCE, at level 25. --

[Leo_Hyborian]

Sooo

 

 

With no one-off AC switch I will be doing the same story line, yawn, 3 times in a row. One time to find out scoundrel is **** in melee cause he dont have any defense to be in melee so i made alt gunslinger and now would like to delete my main to reroll the gunslinger...so yeah, played same story 3 times and really bored of game already cause of that fact.