lineschmidt Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 That is also 100% false. How would you know? You just make up your own numbers and post them as truth:confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthdoll Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) With respect, that is exactly what is being depicted. All the site is doing is cataloging the server status report provided by Bioware. More time spent at light population is tautologically indicative of fewer players. I would have to find that link again but I see what you mean. EDIT: Based on that chart that was linked. The population is NOT declining. If people look, there of course will be an initial drop but the population stays standard for the most part. One of the reason would be Bio has increased the server capacity, which they stated themselves. Edited February 17, 2012 by darthdoll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blotter Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Thank you for this. Maybe actual graphs like this will pop a few people's bubbles who think the game is perfect and brimming with players Except that set of graphs has been debunked 7 ways to sunday because it (a) only takes random samples of whether the server is light, standard or heavy and does NOT use actual population numbers and (b) they have absolutely ZERO information about how BW changed the metrics, several times now, for determining whether a server is light, heavy or standard at any given point in time. And no, it was not all shifted to make it look more populated. The very first change BW made was to increase server caps and similarly the light, standard, heavy definitions because of the long queues people were complaining about. Your crusade to misinform people is duly noted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saxx Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Personally I think we are seeing population drops due to a number of reasons. 1. No Beta Invite - Several of the players possibly didn't get a beta invite and wanted to try the game out. They possibly liked the game, but felt something was lacking or just didn't like it at all. 2. Quick Hitters - These people i'm not particularly fond of because they burn as quickly as possible to the max level cap. When they reach the cap they say "i'm done" and head off to another game believing they've done everything in the game. 3. Content Lackers - Whenever a new MMO opens it's really a balancing act to keep everyone happy. The max cappers seem quick to complain as they've blasted through everything to achieve their cap. From what i've always seen an MMO will be hard pressed to put out higher end content and once more players reach that end they start pushing for that goal. 4. Solo vs Group vs Raid vs PvP - People get into arguments and feel that one should be represented over the other. If a player feels they aren't properly represented they'll leave the game. Casual gameplay has really damaged the MMO market which caused 75% of content to be geared towards the solo players. Would say the biggest reason we're seeing a lack of players is due to the time frame we're currently in. It's the middle of the second month of the new year with people at their jobs if they are lucky to have them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blotter Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 "With respect, that is exactly what is being depicted. All the site is doing is cataloging the server status report provided by Bioware. More time spent at light population is tautologically indicative of fewer players." Except that it's not. It's "tautalogically indicative" of less usage, not less players. You have to use inductive reasoning to draw the inference that it means less players, but that's absolutely not a tautology. Rather, it's a hypothesis that you could argue "makes sense" but for which there are also several other plausible explanations and for which there is ZERO empirical evidence. Go look up the definition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaximumDinosaur Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) Except that set of graphs has been debunked 7 ways to sunday because it (a) only takes random samples of whether the server is light, standard or heavy and does NOT use actual population numbers and (b) they have absolutely ZERO information about how BW changed the metrics, several times now, for determining whether a server is light, heavy or standard at any given point in time. And no, it was not all shifted to make it look more populated. The very first change BW made was to increase server caps and similarly the light, standard, heavy definitions because of the long queues people were complaining about. Your crusade to misinform people is duly noted. A) The actual number is irrelevant; all we are doing is demonstrating a decline in user base. As long as we know that Heavy is relatively larger than Standard, for example, the information is valid. B) The trend continues to downward at a seemingly steady rate excepting the beginning of June. Presuming that the server statuses are not being changed on a daily basis, the depicted downward trend is still entirely valid. What this information tells us is that the user base is declining, that is all. Exactly how much it is declining and its current size cannot be gleaned solely from this information. Edit: In response to your later post, you are equivocating. You are discussing number of subscribers, I am discussing number of people actively playing the game. You are correct in suggesting that usage statistics do not explicitly tell us about the subscription base, but you are incorrect in asserting that the trend of servers spending more time at lower user levels is not explicitly indicative of their being fewer people playing the game. Edited February 17, 2012 by MaximumDinosaur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarjarloves Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 A) The actual number is irrelevant; all we are doing is demonstrating a decline in user base. As long as we know that Heavy is relatively larger than Standard, for example, the information is valid. B) The trend continues to downward at a seemingly steady rate excepting the beginning of June. Presuming that the server statuses are not being changed on a daily basis, the depicted downward trend is still entirely valid. What this information tells us is that the user base is declining, that is all. Exactly how much it is declining and its current size cannot be gleaned solely from this information. well we know the total players online goes down in the luls between content patches. We see this with every MMO ever made even WoW. The key is when the new content patch comes out will there be a surge. I say yes but there is no way to be sure until it happens or doesn't. Anything else is 100% PURE SPECULATION> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Fritz- Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I am honestly not sure if my servers population has even been moving, but i do find these threads kind of amusing, as you see the same conversation with the exact same reasons a couple months after the release of every new mmo game. its like clockwork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blotter Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 A) The actual number is irrelevant; all we are doing is demonstrating a decline in user base. As long as we know that Heavy is relatively larger than Standard, for example, the information is valid. B) The trend continues to downward at a seemingly steady rate excepting the beginning of June. Presuming that the server statuses are not being changed on a daily basis, the depicted downward trend is still entirely valid. What this information tells us is that the user base is declining, that is all. Exactly how much it is declining and its current size cannot be gleaned solely from this information. You cannot "demonstrate a decline in user base" by taking samples of a LABEL for which the underlying METRIC has changed numerous times if you have absolutely no way of STANDARDIZING said label because you have absolutely no information about how said metric changed. Moreover, you (a) don't knwo that "heavy" at point A is "relativelyk larger" than "standard" at point B. For all we know, and yes, we're this in the dark, standard now is what heavy meant yesterday or voce versa. You are making ASSUMPTIONS....assumptions are not KNOWING...anecdotes are not empirical evidence. Furthermore, it doesn't tell you that "user base" is declining. Those definitions are measures of concurrent server USAGE, not overall POPULATION. If everyone is playing less hours because they're busy, that doesn't mean there are less people, it means that there's less chance that they are all concurrently logged in to the server. So again, you have absolutely NOTHING in terms of empirical evidence that supports your conclusion that it is a drop in players....only your assumptions based off a completely non-credible attempt to assimilate non-data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blotter Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 A) Edit: In response to your later post, you are equivocating. You are discussing number of subscribers, I am discussing number of people actively playing the game. You are correct in suggesting that usage statistics do not explicitly tell us about the subscription base, but you are incorrect in asserting that the trend of servers spending more time at lower user levels is not explicitly indicative of their being fewer people playing the game. Nice try at saying I'm equivaocating while you infact attempt to do so. Everyone posting about "populations dropping" is making a concerted effort to say that people are LEAVING THE GAME...i.e., unsubbing. They then attempt to use those graphs to support that TEH GAYM IZ TEH EPIK FAYL!!! I wasn't the one trying to talk about subs...they were...and they're using non-data to draw unsupportable conclusions because their real aim is to kill the game and ruin everyone's fun who is enjoying it. They want to whip up a self-fulfilling prophecy because it gives them a tingl eup their leg and, for some, might get them a bonus in their Blizz paycheck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaximumDinosaur Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) You are presupposing both that the metric used has changed frequently enough to make trends impossible to establish (though the trend has remained stable through any changes) and that user behavior has changed (and somehow continued to change) to explain the lower server populations. I would ask in response: What would be required to validate these apparent trends and what evidence do you have that user behavior has changed and continues to do so? You also seem to suggest that something I have said has been anecdotal. I am curious as to which comment you may be referring to. Edit: I fear at this point you are not arguing with me or my arguments so much as the comments of others who may share similar opinions; I also fear that this argument is diverging from civility. At this point, I believe I am done discussing this matter with you, though I appreciate you taking the time to raise the counterpoints you have. Edited February 17, 2012 by MaximumDinosaur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ereint Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 My server has incredibly low population... no matter what time of day it is. I am on a planet right now, with 1 other person. I just left a planet, that had 4 to 10 people on it (varied), for the 2 days that I quested there. This is in the level 32 to 37 range. This has been happening for quite awhile now. Now... I would be happy with either a server merge, or free character transfers to a higher populated server. Why free transfers? Because when initial "flood gates" were opened, all other servers were either Full, or Very Heavy population and my server had just been introduced because of that. NOW, it's a ghost town. It is not uncommon for me to see less than 12 people on the Republic Fleet, at various times of the day. Doing 4+ Heroics? Ya, right... good luck with that on most planets (sometimes not even 4 people on them). Anyway, this dead horse has been beaten to death, and I hope that they see the frustration of people and do something about it. Also, before some idiot comes along and says "just roll new toons on heavy population servers", here are my existing characters. (ie. Go get stuffed, if you think I want to redo all that work again) - Jedi Knight (Guardian) lvl 50 - Jedi Knight (Sentinel) lvl 50 - Jedi Consular (Sage) lvl 45 - Jedi Consular (Shadow) lvl 37 - Smuggler Scoundrel (Sawbones) lvl 38 - Trooper Commando (Combat Medic) lvl 31 As well, I have Biochem, Artifice, Synthweaving, Armortech, Armstech, and Cybertech (at least 3 of them are maxed, the rest very close to max) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewser Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 You are presupposing both that the metric used has changed frequently enough to make trends impossible to establish (though the trend has remained stable through any changes) and that user behavior has changed (and somehow continued to change) to explain the lower server populations. I would ask in response: What would be required to validate these apparent trends and what evidence do you have that user behavior has changed and continues to do so? You also seem to suggest that something I have said has been anecdotal. I am curious as to which comment you may be referring to. Edit: I fear at this point you are not arguing with me or my arguments so much as the comments of others who may share similar opinions; I also fear that this argument is diverging from civility. At this point, I believe I am done discussing this matter with you, though I appreciate you taking the time to raise the counterpoints you have. The actual numbers, which we will never be given access to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineschmidt Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 My server has incredibly low population... no matter what time of day it is. I am on a planet right now, with 1 other person. I just left a planet, that had 4 to 10 people on it (varied), for the 2 days that I quested there. This is in the level 32 to 37 range. This has been happening for quite awhile now. Now... I would be happy with either a server merge, or free character transfers to a higher populated server. Why free transfers? Because when initial "flood gates" were opened, all other servers were either Full, or Very Heavy population and my server had just been introduced because of that. NOW, it's a ghost town. It is not uncommon for me to see less than 12 people on the Republic Fleet, at various times of the day. Doing 4+ Heroics? Ya, right... good luck with that on most planets (sometimes not even 4 people on them). Anyway, this dead horse has been beaten to death, and I hope that they see the frustration of people and do something about it. Also, before some idiot comes along and says "just roll new toons on heavy population servers", here are my existing characters. (ie. Go get stuffed, if you think I want to redo all that work again) - Jedi Knight (Guardian) lvl 50 - Jedi Knight (Sentinel) lvl 50 - Jedi Consular (Sage) lvl 45 - Jedi Consular (Shadow) lvl 37 - Smuggler Scoundrel (Sawbones) lvl 38 - Trooper Commando (Combat Medic) lvl 31 As well, I have Biochem, Artifice, Synthweaving, Armortech, Armstech, and Cybertech (at least 3 of them are maxed, the rest very close to max) Total users dropping or not they really need to address issues like this fast Either merge server or give the people on low pop realms a free transfer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grueber Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Apparently whoever at Bioware is tone-deaf based on the latest Q & A. Instead of addressing real issues that cause people to quit the game in disgust like empty servers and lack of LFD, they are focused on dealing with fluff. I mean really, a pressing need are HOODS that can be put up/down? And the server pops keep dropping.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danteley Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Imagine how it will be after this weekend, when people who subbed for another month unsub. On our server you can hardly get a proper pug HM together nowadays. It's just getting more and more empty... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthdoll Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Apparently whoever at Bioware is tone-deaf based on the latest Q & A. Instead of addressing real issues that cause people to quit the game in disgust like empty servers and lack of LFD, they are focused on dealing with fluff. I mean really, a pressing need are HOODS that can be put up/down? And the server pops keep dropping.... Proof? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Apparently whoever at Bioware is tone-deaf based on the latest Q & A. Instead of addressing real issues that cause people to quit the game in disgust like empty servers and lack of LFD, they are focused on dealing with fluff. I mean really, a pressing need are HOODS that can be put up/down? And the server pops keep dropping.... Didn't you already quit??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grueber Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Proof? Proof? It's what is happening on my server. There are posts all over the forums from other players stating the same thing. What your going to hide behind the "that's not official blah blah blah"? What ulterior motive would people like myself have when we have shelled out $60 for the game and $15/month to play it? What we buy the game so we can unfairly trash it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthdoll Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) Proof? It's what is happening on my server. There are posts all over the forums from other players stating the same thing. What your going to hide behind the "that's not official blah blah blah"? What ulterior motive would people like myself have when we have shelled out $60 for the game and $15/month to play it? What we buy the game so we can unfairly trash it? Actually yeah. Maybe people should post about their servers more, mine is not lacking in population at all. 100 IF non peak time today, and usually around 200+ IF peak times. Forums = 1-5% population. Edited February 17, 2012 by darthdoll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caan Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Adding another server to the dying list, people are leaving in droves from Uthar Wynn EU PVP. Has been light with between 20-40 player on the republic fleet the past week during prime time. Have dropped from 80+ Problem seems even worse on the imperial side since reps get huttball vs reps every other game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xSnMx Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) They need to promote it better,also the $15 sub might be too high,might be better to go with a $9.99 or something to attract people with a budget (got a job?) As far as promote they need a think like poker tv maybe? Have a EA station on cable,group with Blizz and others and have a gamers channel with tourny's,new's,live feed's,comedy, gamer art etc...show off! Might even make some $ piles off advertising for Apple,XBOX,Cyberpower,dell etc... Edited February 17, 2012 by xSnMx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Actually yeah. Maybe people should post about their servers more, mine is not lacking in population at all. 100 IF non peak time today, and usually around 200+ IF peak times. Forums = 1-5% population.While I can't identify with grueber's concerns I can definitely understand them. I think BW goofed adding as many servers at launch as they did. They had the queueing problem all but eliminated after 2 or 3 weeks. At least they are working on a toon xfer system, so hopefully it comes online before long. I'm also in your corner about people buying the game so they can unfairly trash it. Moles are an unfortunate reality in an industry that racks up $1.3 billion worldwide in subs alone. The server I am on (Mask of Nihilus) is seriously active, especially on the Imp side (screens span a couple of weeks): http://www.galactickegger.com/SWTOR/Screenshot_2012-02-02_19_48_31_312500.jpg http://www.galactickegger.com/SWTOR/Screenshot_2012-02-12_18_29_28_062500.jpg http://www.galactickegger.com/SWTOR/Screenshot_2012-02-13_20_31_45_024701.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderslice Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Actually yeah. Maybe people should post about their servers more, mine is not lacking in population at all. 100 IF non peak time today, and usually around 200+ IF peak times. Forums = 1-5% population. Keep that head buried in the sand......... People wouldnt be coming in here posting about dwindling guilds, less and people on planets and fleet if it wasnt true, well some would but there are alot of people saying it, myself included guild has like 3 to 6 people on have different toons in different guilds used to have over 30 on all the time. Dont worry you keep your eyes shut and you wont notice, keep leveling those alts because the 4 or 5 class quests totally make up for doing all the exact same quests and planets in the same order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ereint Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) Congratulations to those that are on thriving, busy servers. I know some are "in our corner", but some are mysteriously against us merging or transferring off dying/dead servers. I'm not sure why at this point. I just checked my server population again: 6:20 PM EST (on Eastern PvE server) - approx. 22-28 people on the Republic Fleet (fluctuating) Population check, based on levels (doesn't matter what planet, ship. etc): - checked levels 1-25: 76 - checked levels 26-40: 55 - checked levels 41-50: 66 Edited February 17, 2012 by Ereint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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