EternalFinality Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 If the population or win percentage is within 5-10%, its irrelevant. They threw out a number with no context. How about some hard data? Also, a better number would what percentage of total warzones played was Imp on Imp Huttball. THAT would be a number I'd like to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mennoknight Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 You do know the beginning of an MMO, where everyone chooses their characters, is the most important time to fix a faction imbalance? Not really. WoW, Arguably the most sucessful (and well known) MMO in the (admittedly short) history of MMO's continues to have a MASSIVE faction imbalance on most servers, especially when you look at active PVPer's. This wasn't even really solved by going to X-Realm groups either (Alliance was almost always insta-que while Horde had to wait for a bit because there were more of them) Maybe something massive changed in the 2 years since I quit playing that game, but even so, Wow had YEARS of faction imbalance with very little done to push players one way or the other. When I first picked up wow, back in vanilla (around the release of ZG) the going opinion was "alliance sucks at PVP and there's fewer of us) that opinion was still around when I quit (release of the Frozen Throne Raid) You can't force people to choose one faction or another in the name of balance without doing something that will annoy most of them (hard cap on ratio for example) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Not really. WoW, Arguably the most sucessful (and well known) MMO in the (admittedly short) history of MMO's continues to have a MASSIVE faction imbalance on most servers, especially when you look at active PVPer's. This wasn't even really solved by going to X-Realm groups either (Alliance was almost always insta-que while Horde had to wait for a bit because there were more of them) Maybe something massive changed in the 2 years since I quit playing that game, but even so, Wow had YEARS of faction imbalance with very little done to push players one way or the other. When I first picked up wow, back in vanilla (around the release of ZG) the going opinion was "alliance sucks at PVP and there's fewer of us) that opinion was still around when I quit (release of the Frozen Throne Raid) You can't force people to choose one faction or another in the name of balance without doing something that will annoy most of them (hard cap on ratio for example) Because Blizzard similarly made no effort to correct the imbalance. It was more because they were flying by the seat of their pants than anything else. Bioware has had time to prepare, and THIS is the result? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syrellaris Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Because Blizzard similarly made no effort to correct the imbalance. It was more because they were flying by the seat of their pants than anything else. Bioware has had time to prepare, and THIS is the result? Correcting the imbalance would mean either to force players to roll one faction, by hard capping the amount allowed on the other. This pisses people off severely and shatters guilds etc. So its a no go. The other way to do it is to give advantages to the underpopulated side, which is a no go as well as you would fracture the balance between classes and sides as it is. There is simply not much Bioware or any game company can do to populate a specific side, other then allowing Cross server battlegrounds etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pure_laced Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 I love how people blame bioware for their faction sucking. Nope, we have ourselves to blame for the sucking part. However, everytime we roll into WZ's we win 90% more than we lose on my server. The imbalance occurs on Ilum mostly, and of course the Battlemasters that gained it illegitmately while BW did nothing to rollback. The ratio is a good 5-1 in favor of Empire on my server. Quantity of players will always overwhelm quality in Ilum unfortunately because of the idiot Dev in charge of PvP. Yes, I will call him out. He is an idiot. Anyone that has ever played any true MMO in the past can balance it better than this jackwagon in charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mennoknight Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Because Blizzard similarly made no effort to correct the imbalance. It was more because they were flying by the seat of their pants than anything else. Bioware has had time to prepare, and THIS is the result? There is NO way to encourage players to choose the "underdog" faction on given servers without doing something that's either 1) game breaking (buffs) or 2) User Hostile (locking out certain factions) SO, how could they "Prepare?" Sure, maybe they could make the story a bit more entertaining on the Republic side, but the people in this forum complaining about imbalance, the people who are in full PVP gear at 50 already (not even 2 months after release) are NOT the type of people who will be swayed by having a "slightly cooler" story, so this would NOT solve the problem for the early adopters (what we all are) So again, how could they prepare? If you give players a choice, there will always be some form of imbalance unless it's a mature server with rerolls, something that SWTOR is too young to really have yet, and yet many players are ALREADY saying that balance is a lot better with the new avatars (1-49) than it is with the current group of 50's I see a lot of "This thing is easy to fix and you broke it!" posts on here, but FEW if any offer any alternatives. If the fix is so easy, why not suggest it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seriasx Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 I love how people blame bioware for their faction sucking. I know right, its every players individual fault for choosing the wrong side at character select, we need to tell them masses that instead of quitting becayse they face 3:1 or worse imbalances that next time they should try head instead of tails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avindra Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 I love how people blame bioware for their faction sucking. I find that in mmos that have faction based pvp that the "evil" players are better at PVP than the "good" players just because evil players tend to like killing things whereas the good players like to quest and roleplay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhogn Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Faction imbalance is a challenging issue. Adding to the challenge is that it would appear that the imbalance is large and common amongst almost all servers - so anything they do to "hurt" imp side will potentially tick off their largest customer segment. The longer that time goes on though and the more time people sink into their toons the harder it will be to get people to reroll. IMO same faction warzones should not have been included to start, or perhaps if they had to have same faction warzones (prolly implemented because they new pop balance was going to be skewed) drastically lower rewards (say 50% rewards of opposing faction match). 30min+ queue times in the first few weeks would have likely resulted in more rerolling the other side earlier, before they progressed to end game. Introducing more same faction warzones, and the current ilum state certainly do not encourage population shifting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nangasaur Posted January 29, 2012 Author Share Posted January 29, 2012 Well, this is as story and lore-based MMO, where that lore specifically implies and even deliberately alters itself to say that one side is empowered by "The Force" to restore balance. BW can really run with this to where force powers are improved when force imbalance (light vs. dark, evil vs. good, etc) is prevalent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kohsar Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 I'm republic and win about 60% of my matches on my server. And i'm sure biowares stance (While conviluted) is that there is a PVP solution to Warzones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mizab Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 I never said l2p, i'm saying that it's not biowares fault that your faction loses, the slight different between a few mirrors wouldn't make one faction lose much more. Heck biowares stats say republic wins around 45% of the time, so the faction imbalance isn't that bad, just because it sucks on your server doesn't means it's a global issue. And no marketing is hardly to blame, it's just more cool to play empire, and firing lightning out your fingers and rockets out your butt is also to blame. I have a very hard time trusting any stats or numbers from BW. It took them months to realize the number 60 and 90 aren't the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WookieBob Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 AAaaaaaand here's the first L2P. *sigh* Yep, we must all suck on Republic side. actually no, I've been seeing some very competitive republic teams in the last week or so, you know the one's that actually work together, have a plan, react appropriately and aren't just there to kill for medals- as in they actually want to win. Congrats to LightBringers on namidi corridor ! imperial side however seems to be filled with more and more just kill kill kill "don't throw me the ball" kill kill kill "why did we lose!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WookieBob Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 I know right, its every players individual fault for choosing the wrong side at character select, we need to tell them masses that instead of quitting becayse they face 3:1 or worse imbalances that next time they should try head instead of tails. and why should I play republic when I want to play empire? Not gonna change my mind either, only reason I'll roll republic will be to hunt down imperials that annoy me....mind you that day is coming soon...lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staysa Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 (edited) I was always outnumbered as Horde in Vanilla, I found no problem with this. Why is it a problem here? Because you are shoed into a PvP zone with no player caps by one of the two PvP dailies. Just get rid of the PvP area and put regular quests for people to do, like the other half of ilum. I just feel bad for my BM buddies who got half their bags from ilum :/ I'm glad I stopped playing before hitting rank60 Edited January 29, 2012 by staysa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamzaBehoulve Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 (edited) I'm Republic and we win a large majority of the Warzones. Same in Ilum when we aren't outnumbered 2:1. Warzones really have nothing to do with faction imbalance. You are just unlucky and attracted unskilled people. Edited January 29, 2012 by RamzaBehoulve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sazabius Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 (edited) I laugh every time i see EVIL = Better at PVP. Please. On my server Republic are far more evil in PvP because they actually roll healers and use group tactics and win 90%+ (probably more like 95% but we might actually get a healer or two and maybe win) of the BGs I play against them with my <12 year old Empire brethren; all wanting to be the dark heeeerrro and chasing red bars (does anyone know u can interrupt healers, IE Empire looking at you...)!!! Edited January 29, 2012 by Paralassa content Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adzzy Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 (edited) You do know the beginning of an MMO, where everyone chooses their characters, is the most important time to fix a faction imbalance? not really, people are sort of set and without any in game experience, it's hard to move people (because they have no idea what they'd be missing) Expansions prove a good point, because at that stage, people know what they have, what they'd gain and what they'd lose. Wow is a good example of that, it used to be almost exclusively alliance outnumbering horde on every server, then came TBC, Blood Elves and Paladins, the boat righted itself almost overnight, since then, it probably went a bit far... I would guess that the legacy system will include mechanics to not only increase reroll potential (opening up race combinations), but quite probably some to encourage moving across to republic. Edited January 29, 2012 by Adzzy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satans_Puppet Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 I'm on a server that can win at Ilum (at the right time) and we hold our own in WZ's with very very close games.... All I can say to Anchorhead is TRY HARDER. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JingleHell Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 I'm curious what alternate reality exists where Bioware can actively control who plays what in a way that isn't utterly moronic. As for wins in WZ's, they seem balanced on my server. Although there are various (objectively terrible) players who seem to have horrible luck and lose the majority of their matches. I'm still looking for a missing third element, since the blatantly obvious statistical correlation between bad players and excessive losses clearly can't be relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sazabius Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 I'm Republic and we win a large majority of the Warzones. Same in Ilum when we aren't outnumbered 2:1. Warzones really have nothing to do with faction imbalance. You are just unlucky and attracted unskilled people. Ding! Ding! Winner Winner Chicken Dinner! Unattractive AND unskilled... present company excluded. I've played both Alliance and Horde in WoW for years and it was always the kids wanted to be alliance heeerooooooos, in this game it seems to be the exact opposite. All the *******s rolled Empire. Yes, I should just reroll a republic toon for pvp, but i'm sure by the time I hit BM I will never want to touch pvp in this game ever again. I enjoy huttbull, it's original. Other than that WZs and Ilum leave much to be desired, as does the PvP loot system. I really want to enjoy it more than I do sometimes, but it's all just poorly designed by a pvp team that doesn't have clue *** they are doing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryotknife Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 (edited) I laugh every time i see EVIL = Better at PVP. Please. On my server Republic are far more evil in PvP because they actually roll healers and use group tactics and win 90%+ (probably more like 95% but we might actually get a healer or two and maybe win) of the BGs I play against them with my <12 year old Empire brethren; all wanting to be the dark heeeerrro and chasing red bars (does anyone know u can interrupt healers, IE Empire looking at you...)!!! i think the whole concept of evil = more mature players roll that side is because when people are kids, its common to dream about being a superhero. as such you would expect kids to roll the good side. i can only speak from my generation/experience, but i always pretended to be the hero when i was young. villians were nothing more than an obstacle to overcome in these fantasies, their character didnt mean anything really. hell i didnt appreciate villain characters until...probably freshmen year with Othello, FF7, and especially final fantasy tactics (original, not gba). now that im older, its typically the villains who hold my interest longer as they tend to be more fleshed out, interesting, and sometimes more human. Edited January 29, 2012 by Ryotknife Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nangasaur Posted January 29, 2012 Author Share Posted January 29, 2012 (edited) Curious question for the folks who are saying they find they're winning most WZ's as Repub on your server: are you also the same folks that join a WZ, and as soon as it even appears to or starts to lose, you leave and queue again until you get a winning WZ? /shame to those who do. You know who you are, too Edited January 29, 2012 by Nangasaur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sazabius Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 (edited) Curious question for the folks who are saying they find they're winning most WZ's as Repub on your server: are you also the same folks that join a WZ, and as soon as it even appears to or starts to lose, you leave and queue again until you get a winning WZ? /shame to those who do. You know who you are, too I stay until the end usually. I'm that a-hole that tries to kill 2-3 people at once when it's an obvious loss, and end up top on empire anyway in these games ;p Unless I joined and it was already 4-0 and I'd rather do something else than sit there and get farmed for 10 minutes. People filter in and out on empire pretty heavily, probably has something to do with our win/loss ratio... short attention spans. Also, I grew up watching John Elway so I believe in comebacks and sticking it out ;p Edited January 29, 2012 by Sazabius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nixterida Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 I dunno about what you're saying but i believe Repubic has more healers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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