Someone condense the anti - LFD tool side argument for me

[Duusor]

Nothing will ever be good enough. The people who want a cross server LFG will soon be wanting a way to boot leachers and "bad players." Tanks and healers will go on strike demanding that people should kiss their a** and learn to play. DPS will ***** about long queue times. This forum will fill with stories crying over loot ninjas, or the "I got kicked for no reason" threads.

[Ghaiana]

Bingo. The old players of wow know that even in beta the community sucked..

 

 

11 year olds aren't supposed to be playing so instead of relying on a computer to be your babysitter why don't you act like a parent?

 

I don't "hate" them as I've played with youngins before in other games. Some of them are better skilled and far better mannered then the supposed adults. Should your hypothetical 11 year old join my group I would do the same as when the +20 year old who acts like an idiot joins my group.. Hit the kick button.

 

 

BTW: I've seen supervised 8 year old relatives play mmos before. They actually were more skilled and better mannered than a lot of the "adults".

 

WoW is teen-rated, so yes 11 year olds should be able it to play, and I wouldn't know what happened if I wasn't supervising them. Teenagers tend to be quite self centered really and you can't compare them to 8 year olds.

[TonyACT]

It removes the whole social and game part of actually making a group.

It destroys involvement in the game (convenience button, push it and magically everything else is taken care of for you !), it destroys the social part (no need to interact, you just let the tool does the work), it destroys the actual point of a MMO.

 

Just look at WoW to see how it basically ruined the community.

 

Most of the groups I have been in have had limited interaction in spite of my best efforts. Community is lost because of some of the tools playing the game not the tools we use for grouping.

 

If you are behind the levelling curve for your server a tool such as this becomes essential.

 

I make my own community through guild, friend list and chat, and still want this tool.

[Marmerus]

Nothing will ever be good enough. The people who want a cross server LFG will soon be wanting a way to boot leachers and "bad players." Tanks and healers will go on strike demanding that people should kiss their a** and learn to play. DPS will ***** about long queue times. This forum will fill with stories crying over loot ninjas, or the "I got kicked for no reason" threads.

 

We already have more threads than WoW about ninja looting.

[Tool_of_Society]

WoW is teen-rated, so yes 11 year olds should be able it to play, and I wouldn't know what happened if I wasn't supervising them. Teenagers tend to be quite self centered really and you can't compare them to 8 year olds.

WRONG! Teen rated (ESRB) is 13 and up. If you're going to try to "correct"someone you might want to know what you're talking about first

[Marmerus]

WRONG! Teen rated (ESRB) is 13 and up. If you're going to try to "correct"someone you might want to know what you're talking about first

 

YAY! Teen rating by ESRB. Some stuck up religious moms deciding what content is suitable for kids.

 

Only ones who cares about the age rating on games is the 13 year old boys playing Age of Conan. The rest don't care because the system they rate games with is based upon a very strict and conservative point of view.

[Tool_of_Society]

YAY! Teen rating by ESRB. Some stuck up religious moms deciding what content is suitable for kids.

 

Only ones who cares about the age rating on games is the 13 year old boys playing Age of Conan. The rest don't care because the system they rate games with is based upon a very strict and conservative point of view.

Well the person I was quoting is the one who used the teen rating as the metric.

 

 

Personally I think arbitrary ratings don't really amount for much since humans develop at differing rates.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Tool_of_Society

[KhealThar]

WoW killed the social aspect of MMOs.

 

 

Majority of players are from WoW which is why you don't see a lot of players being social. Not a hard concept to understand.

 

Games basically required a LFD tool now because no one wants to be social anymore.

[DieselCheezel]

Every mmo I've played that has lfg has had a decent community. Its only when you add a cross server lfd that people think they can no longer be held accountable for dbaggery and tend to just let loose. Edited January 29, 2012 by DieselCheezel

[Vlaxitov]

I'm anti auto grouping feature and can still admit that same server LFD tools wont be worth implimenting. It has to be cross server to be of any use at all in this game. Those of you who think otherwise are kidding yourselves.

 

Pro LFD people aren't willing to listen and consider the negative impacts auto grouping causes for games like these. They understand what they are but just want what they want and they want it now. They know the cost and are willing to pay it. So they won't admit what they likely already know and call the arguments against such a tool things like "fallacious." At the same time they constantly drone out the same "limited time to play" argument when we all know "I want to beat the game as soon as possible" is the more likely case. The impatience to beat the game is one of the hallmarks of a mmo junky.

 

While almost all mmos made before LFD tools were introduced enjoyed several year lifespans, you're lucky to see any post LFD tool mmo last a single year and its playerbase hasen't shrunk to a dismall population. I want it all and I want it now.

 

Almost anyone who argues that LFD tools didn't change WoW's community is an absolute liar in one of two ways. They either know that it did, or didn't play WoW untill TBC or after. Again, I want it all and I want it now.

 

So in conclusion, if you're anti LFD its just not worth arguing with someone who is passionately pro LFD. You will never change their mind about it just like they will never change yours. They could be secretely agreeing with you when being intellectualy honest with themselves but you still have to contend with this which trumps it..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KFIPQnBPM8

[darkcerb]

Community?

 

What community? there's no forums for a community to express itself, maybe I'm playing a different game but people arn't at all interested in getting all chummy with strangers in game either.

 

And why should they, why should the normal rules for dealing with strangers be suspended in a world of anonymity and alias's?

 

It's like you all live a dream world where people are insanely social in real life, In truth most people can count there friends and at the same time people they willingly seek out for company on one hand.

 

This "community" you're all trying to defend doesn't exist except in your own minds.

[Nozybidaj]

All this omg LFD ruined wow is nothing but bs being spewed from a few sour ****'s in these forums. I am willing to bet people saying it ruined the community just arent' very social to begin with and only had a couple bad experiences but are choosing to greatly exaggerate them to reenforce their arguement here.

 

Agree. The current arguments are pretty silly. A more practical and constructive discussion would be how to do it better (though Blizz tends to do things pretty well). However BW decides to do it they just need to do something. Not having basic things like a LFG tool in the game (among many other things also not in the game) are what is really going to hurt them with keeping subscribers.

 

Unfortunately BW doesn't seem to be prioritizing things very well. Another FP full of Rakghouls is the last thing they should be spending time and resources on at this critical stage of the game's life.

[Wolfeisberg]

Unfortunately BW doesn't seem to be prioritizing things very well. Another FP full of Rakghouls is the last thing they should be spending time and resources on at this critical stage of the game's life.

 

Well the content team has to be doing something, since working on bugs are going to be out of their skill set? Do we really want the story creators, artists, map creators working on bugs?

[Geoteknate]

That's a bit too condensed. How does it ruin community?

 

It doesn't

 

 

Since "LFG BT " is not community.

[Culveren]

This is a good example of the 'con' group. They don't like the feature so no one should have it. The 'play my way or the highway' method.

 

Well unless what you are asking for will in fact destroy the "play it my way" groups ability to play it their way. If you add a LFD cross-server tool, pretty much everyone will use it because it is faster. But is faster always better? it will kill the ability of people who dislike the tool's ability to find a group unless they use the tool.

 

So it really is a one or the other kind of thing. Personally i add tons of people to my FL if they seem to play fair and smart, that way i usually have people to group with. And it seems to work fine for me, i can almost always find a group between my friends, my guild, and just the general population, so why would a new system need to be designed? I am not against a more user friendly option, but people should interact, form bonds, and meaningful relationships should be formed, or the game will be impacted.

 

So its not just a play it my way option, its more of a if you add this tool you will hurt the community and my way of playing.

[Mannoth]

I do not want an automated cross server LFD because I feel it would be damaging to the community.

 

I would have no problem at all with an automated LFD system isolated to the server.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Mannoth

[Vlacke]

I do not want an automated cross server LFD because I feel it would be damaging to the community.

 

I would have no problem at all with an automated LFD system isolated to the server.

 

This.

 

I am also completely against a cross server LFD.

I have nothing against a server isolated LFD system though.

[Kourage]

A better Interface tool, to set yourself as LFG and for others to find is fine and dandy. If you're asking for a tool that automatically puts you into a group with others, then no.

[remsomnos]

All the quibble about WoW's social aspect being ruined by the LFD system and by extension SWTOR's social aspect would get ruined if an LDF system were to be added does not hold much water.

 

For one the social aspect of WoW and SWTOR is a joke. It is a byproduct of the game medium and not a game mechanic. Look at SWG (pre-NGE) where there were classes who's role was purely social, and integral to combat classes. The Dancer, Musician, Image Designer and to a lesser extent Doctor required combat oriented characters to utilise those classes to recover from permanent hit point/ action/ mind loss. While this worked in SWG it would not work for SWTOR (or for WoW for that matter).

 

WoW and SWTOR are purely combat oriented ACTION-MMOs. The RP element is really just personalized permanent power ups that is called character progression. Any social element -- be it making friends or actual role playing -- is solely up to the individual players to provide.

 

At three o' clock in the morning though, one may not necessarily be in the mood to try to make a new clique of friends or to spam general chat to run one dungeon. That is what the LFD tool is mainly for.

 

Also, let us be honest: Many players of MMOs are not the most social people. Otherwise they would be with friends in the flesh on a Friday or Saturday night instead of their friends on the screen.

 

I shall conclude by saying that the LFD system in WoW led to friendships that first introduced me to a guild that wasn't as cliquish as the one I was in (which allowed me the oportunity to underutilize the LFD) as well as some cross realm friendships.

[Ansultares]

There's a huge difference between upgrading the current LFG tool and implementing a LFD tool that automatically ports you to the content.

 

The current LFG tool is straight out of the '90s.

 

Rift tried doing a LFD tool intra-server, within weeks they had to open it up cross-server as DPS queues began to take hours.

That's the dumbest logic ever; ofc DPS queues are longer, because most idiots roll DPS.

 

I bet even when they went cross-server, DPS queues were still higher than tank or healer queues.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Ansultares

[Darkulous]

The whole "It ruins the community" arguement is a myth and a cop out. There is no Cross-server LFD in the game right now and yet I still run into meatheads and ******es!

 

In WoW, ALL of the content is available with a push of the button. TOR's content is limited by Server population, Faction population, planet population and Fleet population. That's a lot of limitation. Of course, for hardcore players who are on all day, it's no problem. For players whose "IRL time" is more limited, it's a problem. This game can't survive on just one playerbase.

[gangbot]

It removes the whole social and game part of actually making a group.

It destroys involvement in the game (convenience button, push it and magically everything else is taken care of for you !), it destroys the social part (no need to interact, you just let the tool does the work), it destroys the actual point of a MMO.

 

Just look at WoW to see how it basically ruined the community.

 

People ruin communities. I have been in groups in SWTOR who HAVE NOT SAID A WORD and also rolled on items they cant even use. So you say the social part is sitting in the fleet spamming "LF2M tank & heals D7" 100x in general chat social? yeah buddy, whatever you say.

 

By the way WoW's community never was ruined, it has always been the same (troll heaven). People on my realm STILL use chat to make dungeon groups, go figure.

[Heliotic]

All the quibble about WoW's social aspect being ruined by the LFD system and by extension SWTOR's social aspect would get ruined if an LDF system were to be added does not hold much water.

 

The funny thing is that if you talk to the blizzard developers and designers now, one of their greatest regrets IS the cross-server LFD tool. Of course, you'd need the social skills to be able to interact with one of them first.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Heliotic
typos arr

[Darkulous]

The funny thing is that if you talk to the blizzard developers and designers now, one of their greatest regrets IS the cross-server LFD tool. Of course, you'd need the social skills to be able to interact with one of them first.

 

LOL, and yet they continued forward with the LFR. Kinda sounds like they don't regret it.

[gangbot]

LOL, and yet they continued forward with the LFR. Kinda sounds like they don't regret it.

 

This just shows that people on forums just come up with random statements and cant back it up.