Valor 60 Pyro need consultations

[CallOfWookies]

Hi guys,

 

So I finally made it to the big leagues. I just hit valor 60 tonight. On my way from valor 1-60 though, I've always felt PT to be underwhelming. To be honest, I may just be a sub par player because even with 31 in the pyro tree, I am still only barely making 300k damage in Voidstar. I average 150k per WZ and I can't believe that we have people hitting 600k or even an average of 400k per WZ.

 

How are you guys doing it? I am running full champion Combat Tech set with Eliminator to fill the blanks. I have CGC on pretty much majority of the time. To top it off, I have a champion power generator, not a shield generator to max my damage output.

 

If you average higher DPS then I do, please share your equip and build; enlighten us please. Also, what PVP set do you use? Is shield generator or power generator the better choice? Is running CGC the wrong thing to do? Please help. I am now a BM and I am lost...

 

My build is the following:

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#3010MZMs0MZfhMrzGGMs.1

[Mapex]

You have to give specifics about the thing that matters the most: ability usage. What do you use and when? What kind of rotation do you have on a single target? How's your heat management?

 

If you are using Incendiary Missile a lot, you are doing it wrong. It's really only good for tougher targets for that extra DoT, but otherwise Rapid Shots + Flame Burst is better if you are trying to unleash a Rail Shot. With Prototype Particle Accelerator procs from Flame Burst and Rocket Punch, you get to Rail Shot people for a gain of 8 Heat (free Rail Shot + 8 heat vent on Rail Shot vs burning targets via talents). This is the tree's core heat venting mechanic (Shield Tech vents on shielding, AP vents passively every 6 seconds) and if abused can lead to very low heat situations (meaning a TON more DPS).

 

My PT is only level 28 now but I'm finding IM kind of sucks for non-elites/non-bosses (and even then not so great because of Heat issues). Back in beta you had no choice but to use IM and Unload constantly since in the Firebug tree Flame Burst didn't proc CGC, but also back in beta the Firebug tree was pretty terrible (level 40 Firebug in beta easily did less DPS relative to the mobs he was fighting than my level 28 Pyrotech does now). The only way I'm able to kill mobs at blazing speeds (and in turn the only way I can really see people getting these absurb damage numbers in WZs) is by abusing Prototype Particle Accelerator. That means doing anything and everything you can to spam Rail Shot: Rail Shot and Rocket Punch on cooldown, Flame Burst when you are low on Heat and need to refresh Rail Shot's cooldown, Rapid Shots otherwise.

 

If you are using anything other than those 4 attacks (and I guess the occasional Thermal Detonator and IM depending on how tough the target is and/or if there are others around your target), you may need to revisit your ability usage to get the numbers everyone else is clamoring about. There's no room for Flamethrower, Flame Sweep, Explosive Dart (TD is better), or Missile Blast (that ability is useless starting level 6) and for mobility and Heat purposes even Unload (you really don't need it with Flame Burst spam either proccing CGC for you or having you spam Rapid Shots for CGC anyway).

 

I hope this helps and that you can report back to us exactly what you are doing in WZs so we can better analyze what's holding you back. I wouldn't be surprised if I wasted my time typing all of the above, that your issue is related to survivability and lack of control and not to your damage ability usage.

[Emissionforce]

I'm not even full dps set yet and am at valor rank 28.. I even do more then 300k all the time.

 

I think it is mainly when you plan out your big ticket skills like Death From Above and that your always targeting someone doing some sort of dmg like atleast Rapid Shots then when you do get close enough to someone you unload all your heat on them unless theirs more targets around you save some heat build up to get them too(unless you know your going to die and just **** your first target >.

 

TL;DR

 

Keep your cooldown abilities on cooldown

[Salabon]

Dunno, I do minimum of around 250k damage on my 35 PT and 10kish protection with minimum of 7 medals. Been doing this much damage since I got the Rail Shot refresh talents. Max damage I have done was on a voidstar with around 380k, so can't wait for 50 gear+talents.

 

Is your damage low because of you overheating or is it just that you can't somehow pull the numbers you want?

 

Do you keybind or click? You pretty much are almost forced to keybind as this class since you're always on the move and being mobile, either not letting your target get away or LoSing other player's moves.

 

Alright with that over with, there's some tips I can give.

 

1. If you are getting ganged by 3-4 people and know you can't kill any of them because CDs have been used, just apply Incin. Missile to all of them. Apply it to the stealth classes (so no stealth) first and then the healers (no OOC regen).

 

2. Flamethrower is really situational and eats your heat, so don't always try to get in and just flamethrower people.

 

3. Look @ your Rail Shot CD all the time. If it's off CD, or 2-3 seconds or so before it goes off CD, don't spam Heat Blast or Rocket Punch unless you have <40 heat or you know how your situation is playing out. I wish I could fully explain this one, but it's just something that comes over time through heat management, situation awareness, etc...

 

4. Unload, I use this a bit, not as super situational as Flamethrower, but by no means is a move that can be ignored. People running away from you and grapple is off CD and your heat is fine? Unload, which will snare them, apply the DoT (unless extremely unlucky), and do some extra damage and maybe kill someone off. You can use unload when you're really far away from a battle and no one is focusing you and you don't want to get involved in a large zerg cluster.

 

5. If you're just damage whoring with AoEs, don't unbind your Explosive Dart. If there's 3-4 people clustered around, just throw an ED out and look at your numbers. If it's 1-2 people, TD I'm pretty sure will do overall more damage and even more if it crits.

 

Other tips are just general, like being aware of your surroundings and stuff.

 

Proof and some added perspective that a PT can do great once 30+

 

http://imageshack.us/f/818/74125523.png/ (average warzones SS)

Edited January 28, 2012 by Salabon

[Dekai]

I'm not Battlemaster yet since not much time to play, but I am rank 56 almost 57, 12% expertise with Full Champion with a Centurion Power Generator.

 

But I do consistently get 400k+ damage and between 20-60k protection in a Warzone so can tell you how I do it.

 

First off, do not Kamikaze run into the enemy. We do a lot of burst and sustained, yes... But we've got no escape mechanism what so ever as Pyro. To do a lot of damage means you have to live. To live means you rely on your team.

 

Don't use IM unless it's on a healer or someone you know, a name you've seen regularly that will try and take you out(aka about 40% of the Repub population on my server try and burn me first grrrrr). Use your CGC snare wisely to keep distance for survival with Flame Burst and Rapid Shots. Use Line of Sight whenever possible to gain an advantage to keep you alive until support can come.

 

Survival tips out of the way... To get a lot of damage in Warzones is dependent on your team. If you're like me and Solo Queue a lot, it's a crap shoot at times. Sometimes you have an awesome healer or two, maybe massive burst DPS classes to blow people up before they get blown up. Other times fresh level 50's or players who queue and AFK stealthed in the Warzone. But most importantly is how you play with your team, good or bad.

 

Are you using Sonic Missile on a group of Enemies trying to slaughter your healer or ball carrier who's been keeping you alive or trying to score? Then running in and Carbonizing them to help them further? Are you picking your targets wisely, attacking the healer instead of the guarded ball carrier who's being healed by said healer? Do you use Grapple offensively to pull a healer or carrier to you to kill them? Or defensively to prevent a cap or save a team member? Are you using Stealth Scan at chokes and ramps to aid your team or using it to keep stealthers at bay near a cap point? Electro Darting a healer so you can burn someone, or using it to protect a friendly or maybe even as a back up interrupt?

 

There's just so much that can lead to high damage in a match, so many questions that I could ask you. But what it really boils down to is awareness. Know who to attack and when, watch for reinforcements from the enemy and reinforce your allies. And most importantly, be a team player, even if it's one helluva crappy team, try and still be a team player.

 

As for spec I run the 4/6/31 TD build:

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301bMZMsZfhrbzGhrs.1

 

Very good sustained damage, and massive burst if you can time your combo of IM > TD > RP > RS. Rail Shot should go off(depending on latency) at the same time as Thermal Detonator resulting in some awesome burst right after your Rocket Punch, especially if the RNG gods say they all crit.

 

Heat Management is simple, Stay around 28 heat unless you just proc'd a RS and the target is burning. Rail Shot, Rocket Punch and Flame Burst will be your main damage, IM being sustained damage and TD being your added burst. If the targets not burning, use FB over IM for heat reasons unless you need the sustained from IM. Watch your Vent Heat CD so you know if it's ok to Overheat to burst and still be able to keep going. Thermal Sensor Override is also a wonderful friend of yours.

 

Screenshot of my first match this morning for my daily, Voidstar at that. No 500k+ damage... team was smart and kept me running like a scared cat as they tried to focus me down once they saw me, which they did... quiet a few times lol.

 

http://i537.photobucket.com/albums/ff334/Aiko_Dekai/SWTOR/Screenshot_2012-01-28_10_13_33_756032.jpg

 

Most importantly, just keep playing and trying things out to learn how to better yourself and learn about your opponents, and always remember to have fun as much as you can. Even though some matches you REALLY want to kick a kitten

[CallOfWookies]

Thanks for the quick replies everyone. I really appreciate how helpful you all are.

 

Getting down to business, as you all said, I do spam my IM. I am guilty on that part. My keybind is mouse key 3: Quell, mouse key 4: IM, Mouse key 5: Rapid Shot.

 

The rest of my keybind is as follows-

 

E,S,D,F movement. Q Flame Burst, W Rocket Punch, R Rail Shot, T Thermal Detonator, y Determination

 

A Unload, G Grapple, H Electro Dart

 

Z Sonic Missle, C Neural Dart, V Flamethrower

 

2 Guard, 3 Energy Shield, 4 Kolto Overload, 5 Def Cube

 

As you guys said, I think I need to revamp my keybinds. Any suggestion?

 

With this keybind, and my play style I can farm about 9medals per match but once again, I am still not satisfied with my DPS.

 

I know some of you said gear doesn't matter but just out of curiosity, Eliminator or Combat Tech? Also Shield Gen or Power Gen?

[CallOfWookies]

Oh, P.S.- I don't have heat problems

[Salabon]

Thanks for the quick replies everyone. I really appreciate how helpful you all are.

 

Getting down to business, as you all said, I do spam my IM. I am guilty on that part. My keybind is mouse key 3: Quell, mouse key 4: IM, Mouse key 5: Rapid Shot.

 

The rest of my keybind is as follows-

 

E,S,D,F movement. Q Flame Burst, W Rocket Punch, R Rail Shot, T Thermal Detonator, y Determination

 

A Unload, G Grapple, H Electro Dart

 

Z Sonic Missle, C Neural Dart, V Flamethrower

 

2 Guard, 3 Energy Shield, 4 Kolto Overload, 5 Def Cube

 

As you guys said, I think I need to revamp my keybinds. Any suggestion?

 

With this keybind, and my play style I can farm about 9medals per match but once again, I am still not satisfied with my DPS.

 

I know some of you said gear doesn't matter but just out of curiosity, Eliminator or Combat Tech? Also Shield Gen or Power Gen?

 

Eliminator and power gen. for the full Pyro build. Keybinds are a personal preference, so there's nothing anyone can really help on that besides your own muscle memory.

[CallOfWookies]

Well, for my rotation I use IM, RS, TD, RS then switch targets. I try to tag as many players as possible. I guess I don't use FB as often as I should...

[Trungalung]

Well, for my rotation I use IM, RS, TD, RS then switch targets. I try to tag as many players as possible. I guess I don't use FB as often as I should...

 

There's no point of tagging targets. Focus one down and switch unless they're all grouped up then use DFA.

 

About gearing, use eliminator set with crit/surge mods. The BM eliminator armors have a high amount of undesired accuracy so I suggest getting other off pieces/weapons first before the set (if you have a crit/surge modified champion set like me).

[PeachesBBT]

Some very good points so far. Hadn't considered rotating rapid shots with FB. Wasn't thinking that rapid shots could snare as well (assuming regular auto shot can snare too). Electro Darting an off-target is an outstanding idea. So is modifying armour. I have cybertech (don't have the grenade yet and still considering dropping it for biochem), but I tried reverse engineering a mod from a champion gear piece, and it failed erasing the mod. So assuming the best way is through instancing for the BUP high lvl mods i've heard about.

 

Currently run in the 8/8/25 spec, as it seems a good overall dps spec.

[KainrycKarr]

I have absolutely no idea how some people get 400-600k damage.

 

I haven't seen anyone on my server, in any match I've played, get 600k damage. I get an average of about 230-250k, and I'm still nearly always top in damage. and yes, against premades.

 

not that I believe you guys, I just think it's crazy. Maybe it's just my server?

 

Yes, I'm 50. Been 50 for a while now, Valor 50, Terentatek(pvp) server.

Edited January 29, 2012 by KainrycKarr

[nihilithak]

If this thread is still alive tomorrow I'll post some screenshots for you. I have zero pvp gear and no raid or high end pve gear and commonly hit 300K+ damage in warfronts.

 

A lot of it I think is just staying alive. You do zero damage while you are dead.

[theangryllama]

I have absolutely no idea how some people get 400-600k damage.

 

I haven't seen anyone on my server, in any match I've played, get 600k damage. I get an average of about 230-250k, and I'm still nearly always top in damage. and yes, against premades.

 

not that I believe you guys, I just think it's crazy. Maybe it's just my server?

 

Yes, I'm 50. Been 50 for a while now, Valor 50, Terentatek(pvp) server.

 

A big part can definitely be the healers. If both sides have good healers then battles last longer and more overall damage is done. If only 1 side has a good team or no one has any decent healers then damage numbers are down cause people spend more time dead

[KainrycKarr]

A big part can definitely be the healers. If both sides have good healers then battles last longer and more overall damage is done. If only 1 side has a good team or no one has any decent healers then damage numbers are down cause people spend more time dead

 

This is the likely culprit. I'm rarely fortunate enough to have a healer with me

[CallOfWookies]

I am from Terentatek too! Maybe thats why....?

[Frostbyt]

Just wondering how you pyros are getting your protection points. Is this just through taunts or do you switch cylinders occasionally to guard someone?

[Sowwy]

What people aren't really discussing is any one matches specific dynamic. 1 team will lose, the other will win but, individual results will always conform to the unique ecosystem each match can potentially bring to the table.

 

What are the opponents doing? How many healers do you have? How many healers do they have? Are you being focused or not and is your opposition making good use of CC? How well does your target take advantage of LoS, and how well do you make use of LoS? How many, if any, tanks are spamming aoe taunt on your team ? These are just some of things that makes pvp so dynamic.

 

500k+ damage logs require virtually constant on-the-field presence, or AoEing teams that don't disperse, or in other words - dealing with variables that have nothing to do with your spec or skill. There are things you can do to potential tip things in your favor, certainly, but the better the bad guys, the harder it gets to avoid and apply damage.

 

When the pvp Gods shine down on me, and I'm ignored, targeting players that don't use LoS, that lack healing, facing troopers too stupid to realize I interrupted grav round and silly under geared melee classes that don't realize they're being snared ..etc. My god, yea ... I have produced some ridiculous numbers.

 

 

However, when our equals hit the stage, that ego stroking glory goes out the window. It becomes less about raw damage and more about meaningful damage. Bursting specific targets, pressuring healers (which often involves running around columns and not doing much if any damage). Accepting the full duration of flash grenade because the door isn't under immediate threat, but may be within the next 2 minutes. Meaningful decisions/tactics don't show on the board. Because, while breaking that CC early netted me some ego points, I wasn't able to break the stun when the bomb was being applied or turret was being ninja'd. I can give other examples, where the tactics required to win can not be measured by a ticket counter.

 

Just my opinion of course. But bottom line, the score board is not a reliable metric of your contribution.

Edited January 31, 2012 by Sowwy

[TheRabbit]

Now that you're 60 you can start getting terribly statted BM pieces! Yay!

 

I wrote a post over on the Vanguard forums about taking BM gear and swapping in enhancements from the Champ gear in order to make the most of it:

PvP Gear Min/Maxing or: How I Learned to Love Champ Gear

 

It may not help with the L2P part of it, but at least the hits you do get in will be harder.

[Vitspec]

Eliminator Set to get the 15% rails shot( 4 set bonus) Obviosuly ment for mercs, but the combatech bonuses are crap to me considering pyro is built around RS and not RP. So the 2 set bonus wouldn't matter considering the second abilitiy is for a trooper who doesn't use our gear anyways.. One thing i never understood why trooper abilities are on a BH pvp sets. Oh and it looks better lol.

 

Flame burst is your best friend and use it well. The key is get that free RS.. I don't really bother using unload...waste for a PT to me

 

Also don't forget to use your Relics on RS and your explosive fuel..

 

IM>RS>TD or ED( depends on the situtation)FB>FB (if rs resets) RS, check your heat if need be vent heat>repeat.

 

Thee are other abilities that i would throw in depending on the situation. I worked with two builds and i like both but i recently stuck with the 31 pyro.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301hMhZMcZfhrbzGhMc.1

8/5/28

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301bMZMsZfhrbzGGMs.1

4/6/31 (From another thread)

 

I am still testing out more builds...

Edited January 31, 2012 by Vitspec

[TheRabbit]

One thing i never understood why trooper abilities are on a BH pvp sets.

 

The other skill bonus is for Merc. Every class set says the bonuses it provides for both Imps and Repubs since the items are exactly identical across factions.

 

The Eliminator gear is technically for Mercs/Commandos because it provides a 2 piece bonus for Jet Boost (Merc) or Concussion Charge (Commando) and the 4 piece bonus is for Rail Shot (Bounty Hunter) or High Impact Bolt (Trooper).

 

A good alternative to that is to get the 4 piece set of Rakata Combat Tech gear. You lose 200 expertise, but gain a signicant amount of aim. The Rakata set gives you a decreased cooldown on Explosive Fuel (your crit chance self buff) for 2 piece, and an 8% damage increase across the board to Rail Shot (which actually increases your average damage from it compared to a 15% crit bonus, unless you have an insane amount of surge).

Edited January 31, 2012 by TheRabbit

[Vitspec]

The other skill bonus is for Merc. Every class set says the bonuses it provides for both Imps and Repubs since the items are exactly identical across factions.

 

The Eliminator gear is technically for Mercs/Commandos because it provides a 2 piece bonus for Jet Boost (Merc) or Concussion Charge (Commando) and the 4 piece bonus is for Rail Shot (Bounty Hunter) or High Impact Bolt (Trooper).

 

A good alternative to that is to get the 4 piece set of Rakata Combat Tech gear. You lose 200 expertise, but gain a signicant amount of aim. The Rakata set gives you a decreased cooldown on Explosive Fuel (your crit chance self buff) for 2 piece, and an 8% damage increase across the board to Rail Shot (which actually increases your average damage from it compared to a 15% crit bonus, unless you have an insane amount of surge).

 

Well if i don't get the rakata gear and want the expertise then the eliminator's is better of for the spec rather than the combat tech. I understand the elim is designed for the merc, but the bonuses on the comat tech just don't cut it for me. I rather have the 15% and don't care that the 2 piece bonus doesn't work with my PT.