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Why play a Jedi over a Sith


DragonAgeOrgins

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The Jedi stories are rewarding... There is something to be said about doing service for others.

 

At the end of the day being only out for yourself turns out to be an empty glass.

 

I have Sith toons, but would not want to play them full time or as my mains.

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Do I come across as confrontational?

 

I just don't like it when "warcraft tone" comes into play and people make random jokes they believe are funny when I'm trying debate something serious and to about "Sith Showing true colors" everyone know's Sith lie.

 

They teach Sith early stages the whole big picture behind it. My point is they do lie. But they are up front about it. It's expected from a Sith. They are human being's true nature deep down I believe. While I respect the Jedi reflect's a more peacefulley way of looking at life.

 

I believe human being's are savage in nature. I think violence is apart of them and which is why instead of denying their own feelings, emotions. They embrace it. Instead of shying away from what makes them human. They take it on hardcore.

 

Does a Jedi not lie? every time they walk past a pretty girl. They don't think "She's hot, I could date her" it may sound silly. Imagine a Jedi is a human yes? to deny the thing's our basic emotion's is to deny the very thing's that make us human. To me, they are living a lie the entire time.

 

Pretending the world is in peace while behind closed door people plot against each other. And in Revenge of the Sith. You could say their emotion's were a bit jacked up over being told what to do and were looking for a reason to get back at that man, that turned out to be the Sith Lord.

 

While the Sith, leave everything out in the open.

 

Sith do not leave everything out in the open, they hide behind smoke and mirrors, afraid someone might find them out for who they really are.

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It seems like everyone ignored my earlier post so I'm going to restate a lot of it. Your views on the Sith and the Jedi are completely warped and ignorant to the true teachings.

 

Says you. But I'll go ahead and humor what you're going to say with a response that's going to destroy it. :D

 

It's not Jedi v. Sith; No Emotion v. Emotion. They both have emotions and they both address them differently. The difference is the Jedi know how to control their emotions. They don't bury them. I don't understand what people don't understand about this. It's not like some disturbed child refusing to acknowledge he has emotions. The Jedi feel, recognize, and work out their emotions. But their emotions do not control them. We see Anakin flip the **** out when something bad happens. Jedi are able to approach that kind of situation calmly and rationally, despite their personal feelings (YES they do have their own feelings about every single situation and they are allowed to).

 

Actually, you're already wrong since the very first sentence in this paragraph. I never said Jedi don't have emotions. In fact, my point is, Jedi (and every other person with a coherent brain) DO have emotions. Pay veeeery close attention to what I'm writing here so you don't mess up again. My point was Jedi repress emotions to a degree that is not healthy. It's not really as much about "controlling" emotions with jedi as it is about repressing them. That's why there's actually a quest in the game that has jedi teachers asking you to spy on two padawans who are in love with each other. Why? Because, as far as the jedi are concerned, love is a big no-no. Doesn't mean jedi can't feel the emotion. They simply must bury them or push them aside (i.e.: repress them) in order to be accepted as a jedi or padawan in the order. If Anakin had been allowed to discuss his feelings about Padme and his concerns for her well-being with the jedi council, he likely wouldn't have gone bat-**** insane to begin with. But he could ask for no help, not even from his master and best friend, in the matter, as he wasn't even supposed to be "in love" in the first place. Jedi allow each other their emotions to a very fine point. But when it comes to strong emotions like love, that's prohibited. Unfortunately, it's also nature. You can't help falling in love. So, yeah. There's my point right there.

 

Now let's address your Sith philosophy. You say "Love is an emotion that leads to breeding and protecting one's young, therefore ensuring the furutre of a species." The Jedi don't believe in creating dynasties of Force users that look down on everyone else for one.

 

And that disproves my comment exactly how? Regardless of what the Jedi believe about creating in a next generation, love does indeed lead to having young and protecting one's mate and young. Also, if the jedi are so afraid of creating a dynasty of snobby force users, why not simply teach the children that are born not to be that way? Why completely restrict love, mating, and breeding in the first place? Sorry, but you made no sense with your comment.

 

And second Love leads to coveting one person over everyone else, getting selfish and jealous and letting it cloud your mind.

 

Love can lead to coveting, actually. So... that automatically makes love wrong? Here's a free tip: ANY emotion can have bad side effects if not handled well by a human being. And you don't have to be a force-wielder in order for love to lead you down a dark path, either. It's all in how you handle it. Love also leads to kindness, mercy, compassion, friendship, many things considered "light side". But the jedi fear the possibilities of the dark side of such an emotion so much that they stifle it within themselves. And, no matter how much you want to pretend otherwise, that's not healthy. And it rarely ends well psychologically for the one repressing the emotion.

 

You also say "Pity leads to compassion, which helps to solidfy order." That one really doesn't make much sense as pity =/= compassion.

 

Once again, you prove you're not paying attention. I said, pity leads to compassion. I never said pity = compassion. Oh boy, you're just making this too easy for me. lol

 

Next was "Anger creates action, which helps to advance our evolution as people." Those have nothing to do with each other either. Anger clouds your mind and makes you act on impulse and make stupid decisions it doesn't make you create a new scientific formula that advances your species. That just makes no sense.

 

It makes no sense because you're not paying attention and using your brain. Think about it. Revolutions by slaves are born from anger at being treated badly. Petitions to have a law revoked are born from anger at the injustice of the law. Movements to stop racial discrimination are born from anger at the unfairness of said discrimination. Andger. Creates. Action. My god, man. Just think. It's not hard.

 

Following that was "Fear makes caution, which protects us." Fear makes you wild with paranoia and much like anger you lash out and make impulsive decisions without thinking things through.

 

Once again, you're looking at only the negative that could happen with the emotion. Fear does protect us. If taught to manage fear rather than repress it, it can lead to your survival. The average man fears a lion enough to not stick his hand in the cage at the zoo and try to pet one. That fear leads to his survival, or at the very least, his ability to keep his arm. A person fears the effects of a speeding car hitting one's body enough to stop and look both ways before crossing the street, rather than just skipping merrily out into the road. That fear protects them from becming roadkill. Fear can also sharpen the senses, giving a boost of adrenaine that allows for more strength and speed in battle. So, as you can see, fear has it's benefits. In fact, it's essential for survival.

 

You end with "Suppressing emotions is not healthy, and is an easy way to go insane actually." Like I said Jedi do not suppress emotions. Suppressing would be not giving any attention to your emotions. Jedi address their emotions more than regular humans or the Sith because they understand their emotions. It has nothing to do with hiding them and everything to do with being able to act without giving them control.

 

Actually, the jedi DO suppress emotions. They strongly encourage against even feeling emotions like anger or love. That's why such emotions are beaten out of jedi padawans at the very beginning of their training. (Once again, I reference the couple that you, in your consular quest line, must tattle on for simply being in love.) The jedi, quite the contrary, do not really understand emotions. If they did, they would be able to teach each other how to control them instead of suppressing them. It's much easier to tell your padawans "No love for you" than it is to teach them how to manage love effectively.

 

In actuality Sith are even worse with emotions than regular humans or like someone else said, animals. It's not being natural, it's being a sociopath like another said earlier in the topic. They act on every impulse. It's not even a Fight/Flight/Mate response, they choose to be this way. It's like the definition of an evil lesser being. There is not strength in that, it's having power and abusing it without thinking. Anything they want they do and take. I don't see how any adult could actually agree with the Sith way of doing things unless they're just trying to be a teenage contrarion.

 

Actually, the sith are just as bad as the jedi in how they manage emotions. While the jedi go one extreme way with emotions (i.e.: There is no emotion, there is peace. Which is stupid, how can there be no emotion? Idiot monks.) The sith go the extreme opposite, allowing themselves to throw themselves wildly into whatever emotion they feel, believing it gives them strength to do so. Both sides are foolish, as trying to completely suppress emotions is just as dangerous as always acting hair-trigger on your emotions. That's why jedi and padawans go mad and fall to the dark side, or simply leave the order and follow their own way (making them outcasts to their jedi brethren). Because suppressing emotions for so long IS NOT HEALTHY. Nor is how the sith handle emotions. That's why so many of them wind up dead, because they allow themselves to be carried by how they feel instead of managing it.

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Sith, show their true colors. They do not hide anything. We by nature are creatures of extreme passion. The Sith choose to accept the force for something to be used as a weapon. More then that they choose to accept their own "emotions" tied...to lust, anger, hate..

 

I am simply blown away someone would choose to deny their own human nature and choose Jedi. Also I recall in "Revenge of the Sith" the woman clearly went after a Sith. Because a Jedi cannot have a girlfriend. some can argue he was technically a Jedi but the moment he accepted that woman as his girl, turned into a Sith.

 

They believe it's in their mind selfish for one person to consume their mind. Keeping that Jedi cannot have girlfriends. Are ordered to serve and protect. Doesn't quite hit the spot as a Sith looking out for himself.

 

So why play a Jedi?

 

sounds like someone is looking for love in star wars... real life hasn't treated him to well...

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Palpatine hid absolutely every single aspect of himself for decades.

 

Anakin hid an entire secret life for years.

 

Dooku hid every aspect of his true reasons for being a separatist for the duration of the entire war.

 

Palpatine hid his entire plan for the sith from Dooku.

 

Vader hid his desire to rule the galaxy with Luke from Palpatine.

 

The Sith hide everything, all the time. The only time you see a Sith "showing their true colors" is after they've been completely busted after years (or even decades) of lying. They lie to their enemies, they lie to their allies, they lie to everyone. Not sure how you could seriously think the Sith show their true colors. Lies, deception, and betrayal is very literally the Sith way.

 

Well the Sith were in long term survival and planning mode in the movies.

 

This just isn't the case for the time period of the Republic the game is set for. Jedi weren't always closely/tightly organized either -- like anything else over time the Jedi, the Sith and their respective relationship with the larger galaxy evolved and changed continuously.

 

At one point (or probably several points in time) the Jedi were pretty laid back and didn't do much and certainly were not combat oriented. They did not always have a strong Jedi Council that worked/coordinated with the Republic (which is more of a political thing than anything else) that dictated how Jedi were to conduct themselves. It simply did not always exist and there wasn't always a permanent leadership cadre to organize Jedi operations. The 1 padawan per Master thing wasn't a universal rule, it is just something that had come to be in the age covered by the films. They weren't always strong enough (numerically or otherwise) or important enough (politically or by prestiege) to be regarded as defenders of the Republic either -- that state of affairs waxed and waned organically over the history of the Republic(s). (A lot of things happened and rehappened over the many thousands of years that the Republic(s) had been around).

 

By the time the period of the movies rolled around the Jedi had gained more political power than was evidently good for them as an order (along with a fair amount of hubris) resulting with the rebalancing that took place on screen. It is not the first time in the history of the Republic for that sort of thing to happen to the Jedi. It went through cycles.

Edited by Flirno
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Just because you reject the order does not make you sith. Take for example Jolee Bidoo, he was a grey jedi who decided not to follow the jedi's teachings and to follow his own path.

 

He was not a sith, far from it actually, and he still loved a woman. Even Revan loved, he was not a sith either.

 

Also the Jedi stand for peace, not anger, I think a lot of people would rather have peace then utter chaos like a sith.

 

The Sith have a saying I'm sure you are more then used to hearing.

 

Peace is a lie

 

While some people may dismiss it entirely. Think about it. The entire time the "Jedi fighting for freedom" or "defending their homeland" when has their ever been secured peace. The Jedi are always at war. Same with the Sith. How can their be peace, when entire world's are being destroyed while they stand in the chambers and preach. to people that "Peace is secured"

 

Perhaps maybe an illusion. That's why I am reminded of the "Peace is a lie, their is only passion." I agree and respect that the Sith are more up front with their emotions and their whole attitude. If a Sith walks into a bar, and some loud mouth start's saying something. They are not bond by chains as the Jedi are.

 

A Jedi would be told not to react or if he did "do so in a certain way" it's almost as if the Jedi lost all emotion and instead moving like drones. The only time I saw their emotion flare up when the Sith Lord sent the soon to be Darth Vadar on them. They pushed back with "Distrust" going against their own codes..

 

-Killing a prisoner.-It is well known that the Jedi don't kill their prisoner's however in Revenge of the Sith. He was going to kill the emperor who was on his knees nearly begging for mercy. A Jedi Master no excuse..

 

Asking Darth Vadar to spy on the Emperor. They didn't secertly whisper about thing's not fit for everyone's ears. They plotted to overthrow the person in charge. That's the plain hard truth. Don't believe me..go watch "Revenge of Sith" when the Jedi go to the Emperor's chamber's to secure a peaceful transition of power..

 

It remind's me of movie Batman, when the Joker and Batman are in that room. Joker say's their "moral code" is like a bad joke, and will drop at the first sign of trouble. They will turn on each other like animals. Exactly what Jedi did when the master's learned of other people telling them what to do.

 

At least with the Sith you are told from the start what your role is. In apperances they may be misleading. The true core of their teaching's is right on tact. They refuse to adjust to the system. To be a solider for other's and instead crave their own path.

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Sith, show their true colors. They do not hide anything. We by nature are creatures of extreme passion. The Sith choose to accept the force for something to be used as a weapon. More then that they choose to accept their own "emotions" tied...to lust, anger, hate..

 

I am simply blown away someone would choose to deny their own human nature and choose Jedi. Also I recall in "Revenge of the Sith" the woman clearly went after a Sith. Because a Jedi cannot have a girlfriend. some can argue he was technically a Jedi but the moment he accepted that woman as his girl, turned into a Sith.

 

They believe it's in their mind selfish for one person to consume their mind. Keeping that Jedi cannot have girlfriends. Are ordered to serve and protect. Doesn't quite hit the spot as a Sith looking out for himself.

 

So why play a Jedi?

 

Even after the Emperor dubbed him Darth Vader, he was still not a Sith. Even after he killed the younglings, he was not a Sith... this was all the prohpecy to bring balance to the force... and he did.

Anakin, because he was the Chosen One, was given certain privileges and leniency other Jedi were not... for example, he was not kicked out of the Jedi order after slaughtering the sand people.

 

Only, when Padme asked him to run away to Naboo with her, and choose power and the darkside, did he become a Sith.

 

Bringing it back to the question, why play Jedi over Sith? Well, think about it like this... in Return of the Jedi, how many Sith are around. TWO! You ain't one of 'em. How many Jedi die in Episode 2 or 3? Lots and lots. To pick the Empire/Sith side is to say, I like being on the losing side.

Edited by SmolyHokes
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Sith, show their true colors. They do not hide anything. We by nature are creatures of extreme passion. The Sith choose to accept the force for something to be used as a weapon. More then that they choose to accept their own "emotions" tied...to lust, anger, hate..

 

The sith penultimately only accept the most negative emotions and deny compassion, trust, love, or even the existence of peace. Try looking at your mother and seeing if you can actually hate her. Most likely, you can't. The sith corrupt themselves to the point that they can.

 

I am simply blown away someone would choose to deny their own human nature and choose Jedi. Also I recall in "Revenge of the Sith" the woman clearly went after a Sith. Because a Jedi cannot have a girlfriend. some can argue he was technically a Jedi but the moment he accepted that woman as his girl, turned into a Sith.

 

The woman rejected the sith the second she knew his true nature. Try being a full-time a**hole and you too will be single.

They believe it's in their mind selfish for one person to consume their mind. Keeping that Jedi cannot have girlfriends. Are ordered to serve and protect. Doesn't quite hit the spot as a Sith looking out for himself.

 

Ok the first sentence needs revision as it doesn't make sense. Serve and protect is a noble endeavor, it's why we honor our troops and cops.

So why play a Jedi?

 

I can think, therefore I choose to play a jedi and if I had to choose between being a cackling jacka** in a rotating chair and a jedi I would choose the jedi way.

Edited by RobNightfall
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I said it once, I'll say it again:

 

Sith and Jedi are philosophies. They are not individuals.

 

They are different ways of achieving different goals, with the same basic end: Becoming powerful with the Force.

 

Sith achieve this power by letting their emotions control them and rule them. This makes them impulsive, unpredictable, strong, ferocious, and VERY opinionated.

 

Jedi achieve this power by controlling their emotions, and allowing themselves to become balanced with the Force. This makes them impartial, fair, and makes them think their actions through.

 

The Sith, as a philosophy, is more likely to bring about the bad in people, as many think anger and hate are the only roads to power. But love and compassion produce power, as well. Occasionally, a Sith lets love run them down a dark road, like the case with Anakin, in which he slaughtered all the Jedi, including the children, and choked his wife out.

 

The Jedi, as a philosophy, is more likely to bring about the good in people, as many think being peaceful is the only way to serve the Order/Republic. But some realize that sacrifices have to be made for the greater good, like the 'Engineer Decision' on Esseles, in which some Jedis might take the Darkside option, to remove the risk, and ensure the survival of the many.

 

It all comes down to perspective, though. The Jedi view the Sith as evil because they utilize dark corners of the Force. The Sith view the Jedi as evil because their code is somewhat oppressive of the people under the code.

 

In the end, in my opinion, Sith are hypocritical ******es that flaunt their power they gain through birthright, and use their own freedom to steal the freedom of others because they don't have that birthright. While some good may come from them, the evil they always seem to create, and the chaos they always seem to sew is too great for the good parts.

 

Edit: Ultimately, when **** hits the fan, I'd rather have an impartial guardian that brings peace by fighting those that would destroy it than a homicidal maniac with lightning and shiny black pants.

Edited by Explosive_Lasers
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Apparently Bioware forgot to ask themselves this question as well, since 75% of the population rolled Empire. Bioware didn't make any effort at all to make the Republic side look appealing. The Empire side has better looking gear, flashier spells(that work better in the first place), better story lines, and more powerful icons. I don't recall a trailer where Malgus wasn't kicking the crap out of whatever Jedi he was fighting. Even in "Hope", Malgus was always on top during the fight sequences. It was only when he was ganged up on that they subdued him, and he still made it out alive. Satele gets kicked in the face every fight scene. Bioware went out of their way to over sell the Empire and now we all have to pay the price for their mistake.
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I think the biggest problem is the polarization of the two sides with the more subtle nuances of each faction being ignored for the over the top hyperbolic representations, but hey that is what games are about right?

 

I'm Darth Baddity Baddus and I have come to step on your kittens while speaking in this super gravely voice! Hold up, I can't see you... eye liner got in my eyes... burning... ok... all good now. Time to diiiiiiiiiiie!

 

OR

 

I'm Jedi Master Doright, and I will stop you. I am so awesomely good and right, devoid of emotion, and I constantly talk as if I were lobotomized or on xanex, but its cool. I am so totally without passion that I am going to have to murder you for being all darkity dark, because that is bad, and bad totally has to die, don't let the hypocrisy get to you, just look at how glowy and good I am!

 

The problem with a game like this is the limited number of choices, and the necessity of making choices be different from one another. You either end up being super evil or super good. I wish there were more of a grey faction within both the Jedi and the Sith, as I feel this is where most of the population wants to play.

 

That being said. I picked sith because it comes down to freedom of choice. If a sith wanted to act like a jedi, or follow the jedi code they wouldn't really give a damn. They only care about power, and so long as you are a strength and asset to the empire you are free to do as you will. If you wanted to be a jedi who felt that emotions weren't something to be eschewed but embraced for their potential for good then you are branded a heretic and deemed to have "fallen" regardless of whether you engage in "evil" acts or not.

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The Sith hide everything, all the time. The only time you see a Sith "showing their true colors" is after they've been completely busted after years (or even decades) of lying. They lie to their enemies, they lie to their allies, they lie to everyone. Not sure how you could seriously think the Sith show their true colors. Lies, deception, and betrayal is very literally the Sith way.

 

Sounds alot like America..

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At least with the Sith you are told from the start what your role is. In apperances they may be misleading. The true core of their teaching's is right on tact. They refuse to adjust to the system. To be a solider for other's and instead crave their own path.

 

There is nothing right about the core of their teachings. They're intended to be evil. Seductive, but evil.

 

Since you used an earth example, I'll use one.

 

Let's say you're in an average American high school and you're running for class president. One other kid is running for president against you.

 

One night, that other kid breaks into your home, murders your family, and cuts off both of your legs. He then looks at you and says, "I was just following my passions. You were a threat to my power and I had to take care of that threat."

 

He then kills you and becomes class president.

 

Are you seriously saying that kid isn't evil?

 

That kid is completely following the Sith code. The Sith code isn't just preached when the entire galaxy is at stake. The kid in my class president analogy would be rewarded for his actions as a Sith, as long as he didn't get caught, because he is embracing his passions and his own power.

 

The Sith are evil. I'll say it again, they cackle with glee when they kill people with lightning they shoot from their finger tips. They murder children if they see those children as a threat to their power.

 

It's fun to play them in a game and get your fake-evil on, sure, but make no mistake... they're evil. Mustache twirling, cat-in-the-lap evil.

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Actually, the jedi DO suppress emotions. They strongly encourage against even feeling emotions like anger or love. That's why such emotions are beaten out of jedi padawans at the very beginning of their training. (Once again, I reference the couple that you, in your consular quest line, must tattle on for simply being in love.) The jedi, quite the contrary, do not really understand emotions. If they did, they would be able to teach each other how to control them instead of suppressing them. It's much easier to tell your padawans "No love for you" than it is to teach them how to manage love effectively.

 

I was actually going to argue further but then I saw this and gave up. You might wanna cool it on the ad hominem and do some research on what you're arguing. No, they don't suppress emotions. Supressing and not acting are two completely different things, as I've explained three times now in this topic. Someone who suppresses his emotions refuses to acknowledge them at all. The Jedi refuse to let the emotions control them. Read this explanation of the There is no emotion, there is peace tenet:

 

Emotions are a natural part of living. As the great sages have shown us, Jedi are not immune to feeling emotions. Jedi Master Obi-Wan Kenobi and Master Yoda both openly express their sorrow when they discover the death of younglings at the newly-appointed Darth Vader's hand. This tenet is not to say that emotion does not exist but that it ought to be set aside. Emotions must be understood first, and it is a young Jedi's duty to explore his feelings. Unless a Jedi can confront his thoughts and feelings, he will never achieve peace. Emotions, then, are not to be overcome or denied, but rather understood and dealt with. A'Sharad Hett reminds the young Anakin Skywalker of this during their campaigns together during the Clone Wars. Hett points out that Anakin's anger is understandable, but he must face it. This tenet could be modified to read "Emotion cannot take away my peace."

 

So again this kinda debunks the entire theory you're basing your argument off of but I'm sure you'll continue to rudely attack me in an attempt to cover your ignorance.

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Sith, show their true colors. They do not hide anything. We by nature are creatures of extreme passion. The Sith choose to accept the force for something to be used as a weapon. More then that they choose to accept their own "emotions" tied...to lust, anger, hate..

 

I am simply blown away someone would choose to deny their own human nature and choose Jedi. Also I recall in "Revenge of the Sith" the woman clearly went after a Sith. Because a Jedi cannot have a girlfriend. some can argue he was technically a Jedi but the moment he accepted that woman as his girl, turned into a Sith.

 

They believe it's in their mind selfish for one person to consume their mind. Keeping that Jedi cannot have girlfriends. Are ordered to serve and protect. Doesn't quite hit the spot as a Sith looking out for himself.

 

So why play a Jedi?

 

some people are good...not everyone want's to use the force for a weapon of destruction. The no girlfriend part sucks tho.

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There is nothing right about the core of their teachings. They're intended to be evil. Seductive, but evil.

 

Since you used an earth example, I'll use one.

 

Let's say you're in an average American high school and you're running for class president. One other kid is running for president against you.

 

One night, that other kid breaks into your home, murders your family, and cuts off both of your legs. He then looks at you and says, "I was just following my passions. You were a threat to my power and I had to take care of that threat."

 

He then kills you and becomes class president.

 

Are you seriously saying that kid isn't evil?

 

That kid is completely following the Sith code. The Sith code isn't just preached when the entire galaxy is at stake. The kid in my class president analogy would be rewarded for his actions as a Sith, as long as he didn't get caught, because he is embracing his passions and his own power.

 

The Sith are evil. I'll say it again, they cackle with glee when they kill people with lightning they shoot from their finger tips. They murder children if they see those children as a threat to their power.

 

It's fun to play them in a game and get your fake-evil on, sure, but make no mistake... they're evil. Mustache twirling, cat-in-the-lap evil.

 

Nice example,but that kid isn't following the Sith Code,he's following his psychopathic tendencies. The Sith Code doesn't advocate that. Do some Sith go crazy and indulge their evil urges,without question;but not all Sith do.

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Nice example,but that kid isn't following the Sith Code,he's following his psychopathic tendencies. The Sith Code doesn't advocate that. Do some Sith go crazy and indulge their evil urges,without question;but not all Sith do.

 

Maybe not as dramatic but he's on the right track. Sith don't believe in peaceful victories, they believe if the victory was not achieved through superior power it is a hollow one.

Edited by Regenhund
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