Daedricshots Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Are you really going to try and dismiss the idea that there is a difference between pressing one button over and over again, and using a character's abilities in a way that makes the most of their output? Or that there's a distinct difference between standing in a puddle of acid and, you know...not standing in a puddle of acid? Learning a rotation and moving from an acid pool isnt skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcfabulous Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Learning a rotation and moving from an acid pool isnt skill. you're right, its non-existant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PessimiStick Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Looks who is resorting to ad hominem now. Tsk tsk. Hypocrisy is a funny thing. Id rather not continue to argue with you because you're too arrogant to examine the possibility that you could ever be wrong. Another wow elitist that needs to go play pokemon panda battles, this game isnt for you kid. You'll note that I didn't call you out for resorting to ad hominem, I called you out for resorting to solely ad hominem. I still have logical reasoned arguments on my side in addition to the ad hominem. I have been wrong before, I will be wrong again. However, now is not that time. It's not my fault that you can't seem to understand simple english sentences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syxshot Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Some people enjoy being able to optimize their DPS....that is fun for me. Don't use the meters if you choose. Who are you people grouping with that you are so afraid of damage meters? I have been raiding with the same group for years. If you pug your going to get whatever you get. You will run into morons with or without meters.... Instead of blaming the damage meters why dont you look at yourself to see why you are not doing as much dps as you should?? This isn't an elitist attitude but why wouldnt you want to play this game the best you could? I understand some players cant/or dont want to play 12 hrs a day hell I am one of them, but I still want to play the best I can. This attitude reminds me of kids sports now that do not keep score and everyone is a winner. Don't punish me because you think having fun is logging into the game and just showing up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daedricshots Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 You'll note that I didn't call you out for resorting to ad hominem, I called you out for resorting to solely ad hominem. I still have logical reasoned arguments on my side in addition to the ad hominem. I have been wrong before, I will be wrong again. However, now is not that time. It's not my fault that you can't seem to understand simple english sentences. Back peddle faster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PessimiStick Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Learning a rotation and moving from an acid pool isnt skill. Actually it pretty much exactly fits the definition of the word. Again, you seem to suffer from a severe lack of literacy and/or comprehension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PessimiStick Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Back peddle faster I wasn't aware that repeatedly making you look foolish was backpedaling. My mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daedricshots Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Actually it pretty much exactly fits the definition of the word. Again, you seem to suffer from a severe lack of literacy and/or comprehension. Still resorting to insults junior? Mad cuz bad syndrome kicking in i see. Maybe its time to take your daily nap, i think you might need a diaper check too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PessimiStick Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Still resorting to insults junior? Mad cuz bad syndrome kicking in i see. Maybe its time to take your daily nap, i think you might need a diaper check too. You know, this is a lot more entertaining when you at least try to pretend like you aren't trolling. You're just mailing it in now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daedricshots Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 You know, this is a lot more entertaining when you at least try to pretend like you aren't trolling. You're just mailing it in now. Ya why bother its clear we arent agreeing on anything. Might as well get my mileage out of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronamo Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Learning a rotation and moving from an acid pool isnt skill. skill / skil / Noun: The ability to do something well; expertise.A particular ability. So then, I guess my next question is "What is your definition of 'skill,' since you disagree with the dictionary definition of the term?" You've already admitted that "bad players can be geared up and carried also," which implies your belief in the existence of a "bad" player. It follows that if there are "bad" players, there must also be "good" players in your view as there cannot be one without the other, though you have no definition for them because according to you, skill is non-existent in a video game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barracudastr Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 It's not about using them its about how it turns a portion of the community into complete ****s Because this community is amazing as it is right? lol please. This community has just as many bad apples as any other mmo. I like how people place basis on how people behave due to a tool. Oh this otherwise amazing player is gonna be a dbag now that we have a dps meter.... thanks bioware for turning everyone into dbags. Thats how I read your opinion and thats how it sounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackobite Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Im an average player, if GS is introduced and I find the game turning into a bunch of elitist jerks Id have to reconsider paying for that each month. theres a big difference to having addons and abusing addons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink_Saber Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) Im an average player, if GS is introduced and I find the game turning into a bunch of elitist jerks Id have to reconsider paying for that each month. theres a big difference to having addons and abusing addons. Look around this thread, or the hundreds more just like it. There will always be a lot of "average" players you can play with. See all these people who are screaming about things like meters turning into "elitists" (even though they're horribly misusing the word)? They're *already* probably not playing with the kind of people they are complaining about, and if they are, it's probably not going very well for them. People seem to think these add-ons make people play competitively. Like we'll all be one big, happy, mediocre family if they aren't allowed. That's just not the case. Different people have different playstyles. If you want to play an average game, there just aren't any big, bag "elitists" you will prevent you from doing that. You're more than welcome to do it, and the "elitists" you're afraid will try to stop you from playing how you want don't exist. I find it incredibly ironic that people point to these mythical "elitists" in fear that these bogeymen will somehow stop them from playing the way they want to. Well, guess what? The only people scratching and clawing to prevent people from playing how they want to are the people pointing fingers at "elitists" and saying no, you can't have the tools you're asking for, and you're evil for wanting them. It is absolute hypocrisy. I can see that plainly, and I've always been a casual MMO player and no "elitist" by any means (as if "elitists" even existed). But I'm not going to stomp my feet and scream and demand that everyone play like I do, because it's a totally bogus argument. If you don't want to play with people who play competitively, well, guess what? You already aren't, and most likely never will, so why deny other people the ability to play the way they want? They're not forcing their playstyle on you. Edited January 27, 2012 by Pink_Saber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderslice Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) Imo people that are against things like this are bad players and dont want to be exposed, or want people to carry them trough things. You need to be doing your role, you need decent gear to run certain instances. I hate people that are against this stuff, helps them hide better Edited January 27, 2012 by Thunderslice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barracudastr Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Look around this thread, or the hundreds more just like it. There will always be a lot of "average" players you can play with. See all these people who are screaming about things like meters turning into "elitists" (even though they're horribly misusing the word)? They're *already* probably not playing with the kind of people they are complaining about, and if they are, it's probably not going very well for them. People seem to think these add-ons make people play competitively. Like we'll all be one big, happy, mediocre family if they aren't allowed. That's just not the case. Different people have different playstyles. If you want to play an average game, there just aren't any big, bag "elitists" you will prevent you from doing that. You're more than welcome to do it, and the "elitists" you're afraid will try to stop you from playing how you want don't exist. I find it incredibly ironic that people point to these mythical "elitists" in fear that these bogeymen will somehow stop them from playing the way they want to. Well, guess what? The only people scratching and clawing to prevent people from playing how they want to are the people pointing fingers at "elitists" and saying no, you can't have the tools you're asking for, and you're evil for wanting them. It is absolute hypocrisy. I can see that plainly, and I've always been a casual MMO player and no "elitist" by any means (as if "elitists" even existed). But I'm not going to stomp my feet and scream and demand that everyone play like I do, because it's a totally bogus argument. If you don't want to play with people who play competitively, well, guess what? You already aren't, and most likely never will, so why deny other people the ability to play the way they want? They're not forcing their playstyle on you. Exactly. That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderslice Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Look around this thread, or the hundreds more just like it. There will always be a lot of "average" players you can play with. See all these people who are screaming about things like meters turning into "elitists" (even though they're horribly misusing the word)? They're *already* probably not playing with the kind of people they are complaining about, and if they are, it's probably not going very well for them. People seem to think these add-ons make people play competitively. Like we'll all be one big, happy, mediocre family if they aren't allowed. That's just not the case. Different people have different playstyles. If you want to play an average game, there just aren't any big, bag "elitists" you will prevent you from doing that. You're more than welcome to do it, and the "elitists" you're afraid will try to stop you from playing how you want don't exist. I find it incredibly ironic that people point to these mythical "elitists" in fear that these bogeymen will somehow stop them from playing the way they want to. Well, guess what? The only people scratching and clawing to prevent people from playing how they want to are the people pointing fingers at "elitists" and saying no, you can't have the tools you're asking for, and you're evil for wanting them. It is absolute hypocrisy. I can see that plainly, and I've always been a casual MMO player and no "elitist" by any means (as if "elitists" even existed). But I'm not going to stomp my feet and scream and demand that everyone play like I do, because it's a totally bogus argument. If you don't want to play with people who play competitively, well, guess what? You already aren't, and most likely never will, so why deny other people the ability to play the way they want? They're not forcing their playstyle on you. *starts a slow clap* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackobite Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Look around this thread, or the hundreds more just like it. There will always be a lot of "average" players you can play with. See all these people who are screaming about things like meters turning into "elitists" (even though they're horribly misusing the word)? They're *already* probably not playing with the kind of people they are complaining about, and if they are, it's probably not going very well for them. People seem to think these add-ons make people play competitively. Like we'll all be one big, happy, mediocre family if they aren't allowed. That's just not the case. Different people have different playstyles. If you want to play an average game, there just aren't any big, bag "elitists" you will prevent you from doing that. You're more than welcome to do it, and the "elitists" you're afraid will try to stop you from playing how you want don't exist. I find it incredibly ironic that people point to these mythical "elitists" in fear that these bogeymen will somehow stop them from playing the way they want to. Well, guess what? The only people scratching and clawing to prevent people from playing how they want to are the people pointing fingers at "elitists" and saying no, you can't have the tools you're asking for, and you're evil for wanting them. It is absolute hypocrisy. I can see that plainly, and I've always been a casual MMO player and no "elitist" by any means (as if "elitists" even existed). But I'm not going to stomp my feet and scream and demand that everyone play like I do, because it's a totally bogus argument. If you don't want to play with people who play competitively, well, guess what? You already aren't, and most likely never will, so why deny other people the ability to play the way they want? They're not forcing their playstyle on you. Did you not play WoW? Players take the path or least resistance, sure when it started GS pushed out players who wanted into groups they shouldnt have been near but soon it was noticed that v high gs meant a faster run, players who wanted into content they should have been doing were pushed out for others with a higher score. I consider myself average, by average I mean the majority of players with some better and some worse. And I demand nothing I deny you nothing, I simply want to play the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mebbe Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I would rather not see these in game. There are reasonable arguments to the contrary, but it would seem (in my opinion) they would be best suited to guilds intently focused on progression through very difficult content. Adjusting playstyle and strategies is my prefered method of play, and I'd like to think many non-elitist content bulldozers would agree. It is entirely possible (and sometimes much more fun) to run Heroic areas and FlashPoints (at least all I've seen so far) with less than ideal conditions. I find it boring to go in with a group of supermen and methodicly demolish mobs through an optimized path. Shocking as it may sound, many people play the game for fun and would rather not stress or be belittled about their gear or lack of. Keep in mind this is a half formed idea, and I would love to hear logical if not constructive comments for or against. So you are a scrub who doesn't want everyone to know that you can not hold your own dps in a group. That is the only reasoning anyone has against a damage meter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleoi Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Here is something I don't get, maybe others here can explain it. I keep hearing from those more raid focused than I that what we currently have isn't challenging enough. Yet you are asking for a tool that is going make those raids even easier? Personally I think I'd feel more accomplishment if my group got things down without something telling me I'm doing well enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karraway Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Because this community is amazing as it is right? lol please. This community has just as many bad apples as any other mmo. I like how people place basis on how people behave due to a tool. Oh this otherwise amazing player is gonna be a dbag now that we have a dps meter.... thanks bioware for turning everyone into dbags. Thats how I read your opinion and thats how it sounds. I don't actually have a big issue with dps meters,they can be good for self improvement, as for gs yes it did help to bring out even more idiots in wow than there were before.And before people go on about just bad players not wanting it,ive raided at a elite level and all this constant gear increases slowly alienate abig portion of the community.If developers were alittle more creative we wouldn't need these constant gear increases.its just an excuse to rehash old ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barracudastr Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Here is something I don't get, maybe others here can explain it. I keep hearing from those more raid focused than I that what we currently have isn't challenging enough. Yet you are asking for a tool that is going make those raids even easier? Personally I think I'd feel more accomplishment if my group got things down without something telling me I'm doing well enough. Okay so you are in an ops group 16 people nightmare mode. Your dps isn't good enough and your enraging the boss over and over again. At what point do you stop and be like okay whose holding the group back... thats what people are saying. And not everyone wants it which is fine just dont use it and play with people that dont care to use it there plenty of them out there trust me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barracudastr Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I don't actually have a big issue with dps meters,they can be good for self improvement, as for gs yes it did help to bring out even more idiots in wow than there were before.And before people go on about just bad players not wanting it,ive raided at a elite level and all this constant gear increases slowly alienate abig portion of the community.If developers were alittle more creative we wouldn't need these constant gear increases.its just an excuse to rehash old ideas. I dont know why the OP even brought up GS.... I dont think anyone really cares about that tbh infact I know they dont no one has been pro GS in any thread for swtor lol. People however want a dps meter and thats what I was referring to. I think gear score is stupid to be honest.... bring the player not the class type thing here. Ive met really good players with so so gear that did very well in everything we did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallorik Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I could care less about gearscore, but you should be judged on the damage you do, if it wasnt an issue they wouldnt have dps checks in hm fp's , and theres dps checks in every one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleoi Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) Okay so you are in an ops group 16 people nightmare mode. Your dps isn't good enough and your enraging the boss over and over again. At what point do you stop and be like okay whose holding the group back... thats what people are saying. And not everyone wants it which is fine just dont use it and play with people that dont care to use it there plenty of them out there trust me. I'd argue that if you can't get past a challenge in the game without extra meters then something wrong with the encounter. You should be able to accomplish everything in the game with the basic setup. This stuff needs to be accessible after all or they are just wasting money on making content only a small portion of the players will be able to complete. Edited January 27, 2012 by Aleoi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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