A word about Trooper's story and how it makes depressed

[Praseek]

Last night I finished a trooper's mission called A-77. And I have to say - I am very dissapointed with the story, how you, storywriters, spoiled it. Right now I'm considering deleting my lvl 45 Vanguard and never ever rolling trooper again because of this!

My point is:

 

The decision about saving Jaxo/saving 300 unknown soldiers. I really hate this, because when I play the game I want to enjoy it and don't want to make any Sophia's choices! And I mean - how could you simply declare that saving a girl with who you have some emotional bonds (not you, your character of course) instead of saving some unknown crowd is a Dark decision? Only because of their number? So relationships have no meaning? If you had a chance, would you save your girl that you know for like 25 years/levels and you've been through a lot of things or would you save about 300 unknown faces? Both decisions make you like a moraly twisted person and in the end to feel bad about yourself!

Anothe problem is, that this seems that it will significantly alter my storyline. And when I see how Garza freaks out, ho Elara is really p****d off and Jaxo has now some nervous breakdown I would like to be able to move back and let Ava, the only good female character in Trooper's storyline, die just because it will make me more of a good guy, even if it means stabing her in her's back. So could you, admins, move me back in the story? I don't mind losing every XP, credit or item I gained before this event. It is better than deleting the character.

 

Plus - Whole Havoc squad is aboard my ship! Why the finest soldiers of the republic special forces didn't rescue those prisoners meanwhile I was rescueing Jaxo?! Glad to see my XO Aric is incompetent to act individually...

And come on, are you sick? Letting die the girl you slept with and making this a Light side decision? Really

 

[MeanMartian]

Well, I understand the disappointment that this choice causes. To answer a couple of your points.

 

 

Saving Jaxo is a dark side choice because it is, numerically and rationally, more harmful than saving 300 other people. Jaxo is great, Jaxo is awesome, but she's not more important than 300 other people. The act of saving her is an irrational act born out of your characters passions and feelings and so it's a classic dark side choice.

 

As far as Jaxo having survivors guilt because she lived only through the deaths of 300 other Republic soldiers, that's pretty realistic. She is specforce, and she is a soldier: she is ready, if not eager, to spend her life for her unit and her country. Your choice didn't just rob her of her chance, your choice gave her life negative value by placing the deaths of 300 other men and women on her conscience.

 

I'm sorry that a no win situation isn't fun for you, but this kind of layered and adult storyline is fun for me and I love Bioware for having made an MMO that appeals to me in this way.

 

 

I wouldn't recommend rerolling over this because this is just one mission in your troopers long career, one event in his long life. If you scrag the character you'll just end up remaking a new trooper down the line and running into that same choice and, believe me, it's not any easier when you pick the other option.

[Praseek]

Thank you for your opinion, but this doesn't make me feel better.

 

I understand that this is supposed to be adult story, but I've got to do enough hard decisions in RL so I don't want to do them inside the game. Or at least not decisions like this!

Ok, for you it seems rationally to save 300 soldiers and lose "just" one. But I refuse see this so easy, to consider it only mathematically. Jaxo is afterall a person you know, person you (perhaps) trust you and you trust her. It's not about passion it's is about her's feelings I betray. And saving 300 soldiers to send them on the frontlines, where they can easily die aswell is not right at all also! Letting Jaxo die means that I admit that I am a person without a heart, just a Republic's tool in hands of Garza (and her will). And btw Garza should have been court-martialed several times for her orders (like killing civilians that SHE thinks that are programmed cyborgs)! I would sacrifice myself to save ppl I KNOW rather than ppl I don't know. I guess me and BioWare have different perspective on what is good and what is evil. But I refuse to see things in just black and white

 

And I am not considering rerolling trooper. I would chose JK or something else. You know, I only decided to take Trooper because I didn't want to see the game overfilled with force users. I tried JK in beta and well...and it has better story than Trooper. And better companions (I would trade Elara and Tanno for Jaxo without a doubt!). And no crazy old witch named Garza. I find Trooper's storyline quite unsatisfactory.

 

ps.: Have you noticed how Garza dumped Fuse because he's a traitor (but in the end he chose a good side) but she assigned a Imperial traitor Elara to my unit without any doubts?

 

[Sanzorz]

I think it's kinda weird how you feel for it.

 

 

Saving 300 people is far better as you state mathematically. Who is saying they will die easily on the battlefield? You have zero knowledge about these people, and might actually be a force worth having, if not trained to be decent soldiers. Even civilians with educations are a tip in the war. You lose heart to sacrifising one, but how many of the 300+ people can you befriend?

 

The choices are more than fine.

 

 

[Praseek]

 

Well as you said - I don't know them! That's the main reason! And well if you consider how many soldiers are involved in the war and how many got killed so far, the odds are not on their side (not mentoining how many times I died in the game myself...). I don't know...I really feel that at least both options should be dark or neutral. Because don't tell me you would let your friend die to save X people you don't know (and frakly I don't give a damn about them). If you let someone die isn't good no matter if it one person or 300. To this point I spared everyone.

Plus Jaxo begged me to save her. Maybe I would act different if she say something like "Leave me behind, this is my duty". She did not. This game is about making choices but after this I really feel like I have no choice. How can you get rid of a that girl so easily?

 

Or adding an option where you can send part of your team to help save Jaxo/Prisoners. You split the team on Gauntlet so why you can't now?

 

[Powerglove]

I thoroughly enjoyed this post. hahahah

[Praseek]

I thoroughly enjoyed this post. hahahah

 

Yeah, laugh at poor Praseek who feels bad about himself...

[Rebelatto]

If you use forex during this dialog he calculates that it's better to save Jaxo, becouse one sis agent is more expansive than 300 common soldiers

[Powerglove]

See, the way I figured my decision was this. I've gotten pretty close with Elora. She's a bit clingy and already sending me crap in the mail and asking me to have babies in the future. Aren't all women a bit crazy though. I figure, while the sex with Jaxo may be insane and better in the future, I have a better future with Elora. Let the B***h die, you're better off with the chick you have. Just my own insane logic I guess.

[Powerglove]

also, how do I do the spoiler crap?

[va_wanderer]

You do the word "spoiler" inside brackets, then /spoiler the same way to close it off.

 

 

The result looks like this.

 

[Praseek]

also, how do I do the spoiler crap?

 

Click on the grey cogwheel on the right side of the panel above your text field.

 

And well, I hate Elara! She's so ugly that I had to buy her a plastic surgery (or customization if you wish) and I don't like her voice and how she have to do everything according to regulations (I bet her father was A.J. Rimmer). And she is an Imperial! She should be locked in some prison cell and interrogated, not assigned to Republic special forces!

[Powerglove]

 

ohhhhh snap I did it!!!

 

 

I guess I'm just a sucker for broads with a fake English accent.

[pchefkent]

to quote from another sci fi genre " the needs of the many are greater than the needs of the few or the one"

[Praseek]

to quote from another sci fi genre " the needs of the many are greater than the needs of the few or the one"

 

 

Yeah, but I'm not Spock (and don't agree with him in this one) or even a Jedi, I don' act accordingly to some Codex! I act accordingly to my conscience, to my insctincts, to what I feel is right or wrong, to what values I believe in! (and it makes me sick beeing manipulated into the situation where every decision is wrong, although I see another options)

 

[Aryzyra]

 

I lost all interest in the trooper "story" at this point in the quest line. Was fading fast after Act 2, but this completely killed it for me.

 

I wanted an option to try to save them both. Everyone I've ever talked to in the game says I'm the bees knees, uberman, best in the galaxy, yadda yadda. Even though mostly all I do is kill groups of 3 normal mobs.

 

Anyway, here's an opportunity to do something heroic. But no. "There are droids in the way" so you can't "get there on time". LOL? The same dinky-*** droids I sleep-walk through every day?

 

Anyway, if they had put a timer up and said "you have 3 minutes to get the girl before I blow the airlock". And if you fail maybe she dies, and maybe the other guys die too, and you get dark side for trying.. that would have been great.

 

But no. Totally un-heroic, a storyline that would have been better played from the ship by holodeck (because what's the point of boots on the ground when there's nothing to do anyway?), and back to killing groups of completely trivial things over and over, while apparently winning faceless "allies" <yawn>. Spacebar and out.

 

 

[Praseek]

I lost all interest in the trooper "story" at this point in the quest line. Was fading fast after Act 2, but this completely killed it for me.

 

I wanted an option to try to save them both. Everyone I've ever talked to in the game says I'm the bees knees, uberman, best in the galaxy, yadda yadda. Even though mostly all I do is kill groups of 3 normal mobs.

 

Anyway, here's an opportunity to do something heroic. But no. "There are droids in the way" so you can't "get there on time". LOL? The same dinky-*** droids I sleep-walk through every day?

 

Anyway, if they had put a timer up and said "you have 3 minutes to get the girl before I blow the airlock". And if you fail maybe she dies, and maybe the other guys die too, and you get dark side for trying.. that would have been great.

 

But no. Totally un-heroic, a storyline that would have been better played from the ship by holodeck (because what's the point of boots on the ground when there's nothing to do anyway?), and back to killing groups of completely trivial things over and over, while apparently winning faceless "allies" <yawn>. Spacebar and out.

 

 

Can't agree more! But I kinda liked

destroying Gauntlet, but getting an explosives specialist who really don't want to obey orders instead of taking Fuse and giving him a second chance? Or why I have to save some insectoid computer specialist? Republic army had run out of astromech droids?

but then...pfff all the epicness is gone. I so envy to my guildmate who's playing JK, when he told me what comes at the later parts of the story...

[Pubsam]

Everyone's obsession with Jaxo is something I just don't get, probably because my trooper is female. I'm assuming you guys slept with her? As for me, she's just some girl that I worked with TWICE before. She even sent me a letter in the mail at one point, but I didn't even remember who she was. Point being, that outside of sleeping with her, she doesn't have much going on character-wise. Of all the people outside your squad that you've worked with the most (and talked to much more), it'd make more sense to put Jonas Balker in that situation.

 

And as for griping about making a decision like this - Bioware might just not make games you enjoy. They love engaging their players with involved moral dilemmas that a philosophy professor probably couldn't give you a straight recommendation on.

 

Of course the Jaxo situation is pretty cut and dry. I think only Ayn Rand would approve of you you going dark side.

[Tyeraxus]

Warning, philosophy discussion incoming:

 

Okay, while I do 100% agree that there is no "right" choice in this kind of situation in real life, and that there should be an option to use the rest of Havoc to save everyone, remember the universe we're RPGing in: the Star Wars universe has a very ethically black-white backdrop, and the white side of the scale is utilitarianism almost to the point of absurdity.

 

Some of the inspiration for the Jedi Order (any the Light side of the Force by extension) was drawn from Eastern monks (Buddhism): compare Yoda: "Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering." with the Buddhist Four Noble Truths: "Life ultimately leads to suffering. Suffering is caused by craving (which is generally expressed as clinging to the self). Suffering ends when craving ends; this is achieved by eliminating delusion (reaching Enlightenment). Enlightenment can be achieved by following the Buddha's Eightfold Path."

 

So, I'm sorry you feel that you were penalized for playing your character and that a moral choice has sucked all the fun out of the story for you. But it is completely, totally, 100% in line with the philosophy of the Star Wars universe for you to gain Dark Side points for saving your love interest at the expense of 300 others.

 

[Teldaril]

When the game causes such emotions, then the story writers did the best. There sould be more choices like that. I never had a problem with my choices except for this mission. Hard, but thats what you sometimes have to do as "task force". Do fast and rational decisions on very complicated situations.

 

More like that!

[MeanMartian]

As far as how this part of the story made both you and I feel. It's clear that BW can't make us both happy. This choice made me happy, it invested me more in the character, it made me think about what I truly value and what my character values. Clearly it made you think long and hard about the story and your character too.

 

As far as not rerolling, that's fine too, just don't delete. You've got 50 something character slots and 10 character slots per server. If you don't want to play your trooper anymore, allright, roll that Knight. And in a month from now, two months from now, you may decide you want to play a vanguard tank or dps and this part of the story will be a bad memory. If you delete you have to choose whether to go through it again or not play a vanguard, if you just shelve your current vanguard it will be easier.

 

 

As for the choice that you've made. Making the light side choice only makes you heartless if you don't feel bad about it afterwards. Yeah, Jaxo trusts you and you trust her. But I trust her to make the same choice I did if the situation is ever reversed. And I trust her to get blind drunk the next day, the same way I did.

 

[Aryzyra]

And as for griping about making a decision like this - Bioware might just not make games you enjoy. They love engaging their players with involved moral dilemmas that a philosophy professor probably couldn't give you a straight recommendation on.

 

You're driving a car. There's a dog in the road. Do you hit the dog or swerve into a pedestrian?

 

Err. Maybe I try to avoid the dog, but make sure to not hit the pedestrian? NO DO YOU HIT THE DOG OR THE PEDESTRIAN??? Umm. Ok I hit the dog. Hurp durp.

[MeanMartian]

You're driving a car. There's a dog in the road. Do you hit the dog or swerve into a pedestrian?

 

Err. Maybe I try to avoid the dog, but make sure to not hit the pedestrian? NO DO YOU HIT THE DOG OR THE PEDESTRIAN??? Umm. Ok I hit the dog. Hurp durp.

 

Actually you're right. There should be a third, 'split efforts despite tactical analysis indicating it won't work' option. And it should lead to winging the pedestrian and killing the dog.

[Praseek]

You're driving a car. There's a dog in the road. Do you hit the dog or swerve into a pedestrian?

 

Err. Maybe I try to avoid the dog, but make sure to not hit the pedestrian? NO DO YOU HIT THE DOG OR THE PEDESTRIAN??? Umm. Ok I hit the dog. Hurp durp.

 

I pull my car right into the wall hoping my airbags gonna work and engineers did good job while inventing crash zones. There is ALWAYS another option in every situation, all you have to do is think outside the box.

 

 

More like that!

 

Well...but at least they should give us an options that make sence.

 

Here is a little suggestion for another decision - sacrificing C2N2 for getting a 5 % discount cheque for buying jukebox token...

 

As far as how this part of the story made both you and I feel. It's clear that BW can't make us both happy. This choice made me happy, it invested me more in the character, it made me think about what I truly value and what my character values. Clearly it made you think long and hard about the story and your character too.

 

 

Well I realize I just refused to chose the lesser of two evils, but I would be a bad person no matter how I decide...Another choice after this mission should be to pull out my blaster and shoot myself in the head regardless who you saved. Or better - let Tano stuff my ship with explosives and ram into Rakton's destroyer bridge

 

[Aryzyra]

Actually you're right. There should be a third, 'split efforts despite tactical analysis indicating it won't work' option. And it should lead to winging the pedestrian and killing the dog.

 

Is this a choose your own adventure book, or a game we're supposedly playing?

 

They could allow for some eeensy teensy wittle bit of actual play to make a difference in the story. Instead they provide an obviously false dilemma, purely for the sake of the dilemma.

 

 

There's clearly unlimited time involved in all aspects of this mission. Could sit around on that deck for days. There's no sense of urgency, because there is, in fact, no urgency. There's only one thing to do in this mission - pick who dies.

 

Because, you know, someone "has to". Because, see, umm. Droids in the way. There's no way anyone could overcome that obstacle. Because they're droids. And they're in the way. See.