Alacrity for Commando/BH/Smuggler/Op need changed.

[Daecollo]

We burn too much Ammo/Energy/Heat with this, it would be much better if it was changed all to Critical or Power, or lowered the cost of healing itself as much as it did the casting speed.

[Mooby]

Don't agree (BH).

 

I get around 18% constantly during a raid fight, and have no heat issues at all unless the raid is taking massive amounts of damage, and that scenario I'd end up having heat issues with 0% Alacrity.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Mooby

[Leiloni]

Don't agree (BH).

 

and that scenario I'd end up having heat issues with 0% Alacrity.

 

I don't follow this logic? If you're having no problems currently with 18% Alacrity you'd have even less problems with no Alacrity since you'd be casting heals less. He's suggesting ways to lessen the amount of heat used, not increase it. So with what he's saying, with your 18% Alacrity you'd use up even less heat with it than you do now, not more.

[Mooby]

I don't follow this logic? If you're having no problems currently with 18% Alacrity you'd have even less problems with no Alacrity since you'd be casting heals less. He's suggesting ways to lessen the amount of heat used, not increase it. So with what he's saying, with your 18% Alacrity you'd use up even less heat with it than you do now, not more.

 

Because the time difference when burning through heal abilities with high heat costs isn't a lot when they are getting spammed. For instance 4 Rapid Scans in a row with 0% Alac compared to 18% Alac is about 1.25 - 1.5 seconds. In that time you wouldn't dissipate enough Heat to keep you in a stable Heat region, so you'd run into Heat issues regardless of what you're Alacrity is.

[Daecollo]

Because the time difference when burning through heal abilities with high heat costs isn't a lot when they are getting spammed. For instance 4 Rapid Scans in a row with 0% Alac compared to 18% Alac is about 1.25 - 1.5 seconds. In that time you wouldn't dissipate enough Heat to keep you in a stable Heat region, so you'd run into Heat issues regardless of what you're Alacrity is.

 

So you would have to STOP Casting, making the Alacrity worthless.

 

 

IF YOU stacked critical instead the heal would instead DOUBLE making you use 3 Rapid Scans instead of 4. or MAYBE even 2 for half heat cost.

 

 

2 4800 Heals are better then 4 2300 Heals.

 

And since you used SO much less heat your heat Dissapates faster.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Daecollo

[Mooby]

So you would have to STOP Casting, making the Alacrity worthless.

 

 

IF YOU stacked critical instead the heal would instead DOUBLE making you use 3 Rapid Scans instead of 4. or MAYBE even 2 for half heat cost.

 

 

2 4800 Heals are better then 4 2300 Heals.

 

Point is moot, because a) you wouldn't roll with 100% critical so you aren't guaranteed critical heals, you could just as well get 2x 2300 heals not 4800, and b) critical rating along with surge rating are easy to obtain and stack, I have one piece of raid armor and already have when buffed 45.5% crit and 85% surge (100% with talents).

 

Also you have to stop casting in both situations regardless of your Alacrity percentage, just with the 18% Alacrity you'd be stopping 1.5 seconds or so before someone with 0% Alacrity would be. In that 1.5 seconds I would have dropped heat so I'd be at less heat than someone with 0% Alacrity, and it would give me time to do something else, like refresh Kolto Shell or fire off a Rapid Shots.

 

But this is beside the point of the original post. I still don't agree though, not for a Bounty Hunter at least.

[Daecollo]

So you casted 0.2 Seconds Faster? Big Deal.

 

 

With Power/Critical I could of doubled my healing of ALL my abilties, and power is just a RAW increase of healing.

 

I just traded a piece of 56 mod 48 Alacrity for 38 Critical Rating, guess what? I gained 1% critical chance and lost 0.02 Casting Speed.

 

So I lost 0.02% Difference and gained 1%!

Edited January 27, 2012 by Daecollo

[Mooby]

So you casted 0.2 Seconds Faster? Big Deal.

If it's not anything to care much about then why would it be so detrimental to heat consumption? Even if you completely disregard that my heals come out faster so heal my targets faster amongst other things, in the 5 heat per second range that's only 1 extra heat.

 

With Power/Critical I could of doubled my healing of ALL my abilties, and power is just a RAW increase of healing.

So can I, you can easily hit the Critical/Surge "soft caps" (using this term, but it's more the point of where Critical/Surge Rating hits bad diminishing returns) using 50/51 mods. Edited January 27, 2012 by Mooby

[Daecollo]

If it's not anything to care much about then why would it be so detrimental to heat consumption? Even if you completely disregard that my heals come out faster so heal my targets faster amongst other things, in the 5 heat per second range that's only 1 extra heat.

 

So can I, you can easily hit the Critical/Surge "soft caps" (using this term, but it's more the point of where Critical/Surge Rating hits bad diminishing returns) using 50/51 mods.

 

Alacrity has diminishing returns as well.

[Mikkeos]

At least Alacrity reduces the time for social moves like shadowboxing and dancing.

[DrekorSilverfang]

BH/CM benefit from alacrity quite well. Op/Scoundrel should not have alacrity though.

[_Nyth]

BH/CM benefit from alacrity quite well. Op/Scoundrel should not have alacrity though.

 

We don't really.

 

Point is that, unless you mess up your rotation or do something weird, you can't spam heals non stop without swapping to rapid shots.

And that is where the disadvantage of alacrity lies. Speeding up those casts only frees time for more rapid shots, as you are restricted by heat generation. That means that alacrity doesn't really increase your healing output. The only thing it grants is slightly more mobility (as you can use rapid shots on the move).

 

This isn't WoW where your resource is "unlimited" and haste directly increases your healing output.

 

Alacrity would be a nice thing to have a relic off, so that you can pop a ton of alacrity if you need that fast boost.

Other than that I don't see a use for it, until they allow alacrity to increase your resource generation or scale down ability costs with it.

If 100% alacrity would not only reduce my Rapid Scan by 1 second but also reduce the cost by 12.5 heat. THEN it would become interesting, as THEN it directly increases your potential healing throughput.

[Lascero]

Alacrity hurts Scoundrels/OPs on two fronts: Absolutely no benefit to HoTs/instants and the reasoning for the OP. Instants make up a significant portion of our casting in PvE/PvP. Alacrity improves throughput in the very, very short term. There's way too much of it on our gear considering how little use we derive from it.

 

Normally, I'm adding downtime in between casting for energy regen, so the time I would have gained from Alacrity is lost in the artificial down time.

 

At least Alacrity reduces the time for social moves like shadowboxing and dancing.

 

And gathering. And fleet pass, quick travel, and exit area. Woo.

[Lokiliesmith]

Alacrity hurts Scoundrels/OPs on two fronts: Absolutely no benefit to HoTs/instants and the reasoning for the OP. Instants make up a significant portion of our casting in PvE/PvP. Alacrity improves throughput in the very, very short term. There's way too much of it on our gear considering how little use we derive from it.

 

Normally, I'm adding downtime in between casting for energy regen, so the time I would have gained from Alacrity is lost in the artificial down time.

 

 

 

And gathering. And fleet pass, quick travel, and exit area. Woo.

 

I this what people think? That haste type stats are so that you can cast more often? Because that's really not the intent of something like that in a reactive system. For games where you aren't just spamming the value of alacrity becomes the ability to land a heal in the clutch. The 10% less cast time isn't for hitting 10% more heals. It's for landing 1 heal, right when you need it.

[Dulwaithe]

I this what people think? That haste type stats are so that you can cast more often? Because that's really not the intent of something like that in a reactive system. For games where you aren't just spamming the value of alacrity becomes the ability to land a heal in the clutch. The 10% less cast time isn't for hitting 10% more heals. It's for landing 1 heal, right when you need it.

 

This is exactly right.

[Corran]

Because the time difference when burning through heal abilities with high heat costs isn't a lot when they are getting spammed. For instance 4 Rapid Scans in a row with 0% Alac compared to 18% Alac is about 1.25 - 1.5 seconds. In that time you wouldn't dissipate enough Heat to keep you in a stable Heat region, so you'd run into Heat issues regardless of what you're Alacrity is.

 

bogus

 

 

healing for bh/trooper and smuggler/op is limited by your energy regen/ammo/heat rates. nothing else

 

so you can cast it a little bit faster, the amount you can heal per minute does not change because how often you can cast is capped by your heat/ammo/energy. nothing can change this

 

now if there were a talent in the upper end of the healing trees to allow alacrity to also increase energy regen rate/heat dissipation rate THEN it would be worth something.

 

you'll get more out of crit and surge than alacrity. math does not lie.

[Corran]

I this what people think? That haste type stats are so that you can cast more often? Because that's really not the intent of something like that in a reactive system. For games where you aren't just spamming the value of alacrity becomes the ability to land a heal in the clutch. The 10% less cast time isn't for hitting 10% more heals. It's for landing 1 heal, right when you need it.

 

your thinking is also off. if you are a sawbones healer in a raid with a sage, the sage with his +10% armor, bubble and the fact taht healing trance can heal for 7k+ makes him a superior tank healer. so what are you doing as a sawbones?

 

spreading around underworld medicine and slow release. you arent landing one heal right when you need it.

 

and even then if you can manage it, a second sage > any sawbones or commando in an 8 man regardless of how much they whine about sharing gear.

[Mooby]

bogus

 

 

healing for bh/trooper and smuggler/op is limited by your energy regen/ammo/heat rates. nothing else

 

so you can cast it a little bit faster, the amount you can heal per minute does not change because how often you can cast is capped by your heat/ammo/energy. nothing can change this

 

now if there were a talent in the upper end of the healing trees to allow alacrity to also increase energy regen rate/heat dissipation rate THEN it would be worth something.

 

you'll get more out of crit and surge than alacrity. math does not lie.

 

Did you quote the wrong post? because I never said anywhere that I can see that contradicts anything of what you just posted. In fact, I'd agree with most of it. All my posts we're against the point the OP made that Alacrity hurts Heat in the Bounty Hunters case, because it just doesn't unless you're spamming abilities in which case Alacrity wouldn't really matter.

[Lascero]

I this what people think? That haste type stats are so that you can cast more often? Because that's really not the intent of something like that in a reactive system. For games where you aren't just spamming the value of alacrity becomes the ability to land a heal in the clutch. The 10% less cast time isn't for hitting 10% more heals. It's for landing 1 heal, right when you need it.

 

Maybe it's just me, but I don't run into too many clutch situations. I don't like gearing for rare, clutch situations.

 

I haven't done Nightmare in many fights, so if you want to argue the clutch situations arise more often in Nightmare mode, what you essentially have is a stat aimed for Nightmare only.

 

That still doesn't touch on the fact that HoTs or instants get nothing from alacrity, so you've now got a stat that functions primarily in clutch situations, on half of our mainstay healing abilities. That's a very narrow scope of use compared to any of the other stats we use.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Lascero

[stephenjohnp]

Alacrity is useless for Smugglers/Operatives. Crit/Surge is a 100x more useful.