Sorcerers are becoming the next Bright Wizards

[Talizzar]

They may or may not be OP but people play them because they are fun to play, have great animations, Lightning, Sith, what more do you need? You could roll Jedi and throw rocks instead....yawn!

[gryhmr]

Sorcs are absolutely overpowered. They literally have no weaknesses. high ranged damage, bubbles, healing, cc, slow, roots, maneuverability, and healing. Who's bright idea was that?! Edited January 27, 2012 by gryhmr

[Kulex]

I like how all these sorcs tell you they insta die to interrupt. Which is a blatant lie, lol. Are you just going to stand there after i interrupt you and do nothing for 4 seconds, and also wait for my 9 seconds interrupt to cool down before you do anything? Or use your knock back that roots me and force speed off or use one of your 2 cc abilities? 4 seconds pass and its back to spamming force lightning with your nice bubble before my interrupt cool downs.

[Sathid]

They may or may not be OP but people play them because they are fun to play, have great animations, Lightning, Sith, what more do you need? You could roll Jedi and throw rocks instead....yawn!

 

Not good enougth excuse,if there is too much of something then is a tell tale sign of something,it was not Op's/Scoundrels the casting classes did their number to that class.

[Wrakk]

Sorcs are absolutely overpowered. They literally have no weaknesses. high ranged damage, bubbles, healing, cc, slow, roots, maneuverability, and healing. Who's bright idea was that?!

 

This;

 

AND

 

Idea came from the same guy who made a horribly imba class in warhammer online: Bright wizard

[CommandoPower]

(For those unaware of Bright Wizards, they are a class in Warhammer Online. At launch, the class had far too powerful of attacks earned early on which resulted in the warzones being 50%+ Bright Wizards, with them topping the damage charts)

 

Now that everyone knows Operative changes are on the way, I'm seeing a lot more Inquisitors around - especially Sorcerers. It's like the Operatives are all rerolling the alternative stealth class, or the alternative facemelting class.

 

Warzones are beginning to look like Warhammer Online's Bright Wizard problem. In the Huttball matches I've played today, the worst so far have been one with 11 Inquisitors, and one with 12.

 

10 out of the 11 Inquisitors were Sorcerers in the first one, and 8 out of 12 were Sorcerers in the second.

 

Should we view this as merely growing pains, as a portion of the playerbase looks for another class to play? Or do you think this is going to be a longterm problem, where the game becomes Sorcerer Wars of the Old Republic (to quote a guildie)?

 

Even though I think sorc needs to be nerfed your definitely off base sir. Sorc is not a high sustained damage and high burst damage class AT THE SAME TIME like bright wizards were. Instead they have mid to high sustained damge, shields, mobility, alot of CC, and a heals.

 

In essence a jack of all trades class that can still excel at damage, even though it's sustained damage instead burst damage. This breaks the intrinsic balance of jack of all trades classes: can do a little of everything but nothing really well. Sorc's can do a little of everything AND do either dps/CC or healing/cc well.

 

Rookie PVP players or those that do not understand pressure damage think not being burst makes it worthless or far far far less useful. They are dead wrong, it just takes more skill to use well and must be placed more selectively and efficiently to achieve it's potential.

 

 

 

 

Another mistake: Sorc's have been between 1/3 and 1/2 the Imperial population I've faced since day 1. Nothing has changed for me except the ops re-rolled sorc or bounty hunter. So WZ's are almost always sorcs/bounty hunters/token assassin and token random class.

 

 

Also as a side note on BW's themselves, they were more balanced when they literally destroyed themselves trying to DEE PEE SSS so to appease whiney babies the risk/reward was nerfed and it became an easily sustainable crit rate instead. Even with healing a chain casting bright wizard made it much easier to kill them pre-change, so you actually had to manage your DPS or you'd melt. Pun intended.

[Ryotknife]

 

But let's not forget, it's a l2p issue when 2 classes make up 50% of warzones.

 

population is not concrete evidence of something between UP or OP, especially since you are talking about WZ in which people are plucked at random. population analysis can be used to support other evidence that is more concrete, but thats about it.

 

for example, lets take wow. rogues were one of the least played class, yet they were overpowered (or at least they were nerfed). rogues were consistently either overpowered ot good in pvp/pve, yet were still the least played class. why is that? i had a rogue alt at the time and i can give you my answer as to why i barely played him.

 

because he was boring as hell (class remained unchanged since wow first started)

 

on the other hand, hunters, one of the most populated classes, was consistently underpowered for very long stretches in both pve and pvp.

 

there are many factors as to why people roll a class, power and viability are merely two. as such, you can not balance pvp solely around something that is not solely affected by pvp.

 

for example, i will freely admit i just started a sorc. why? because my friend said it was the closest class to affliction warlock in this game (which was my second favorite pvp spec in wow). i will admit that i was actually reluctant to roll the class due to all of the attention it was getting.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Ryotknife

[ranlaen]

Sorcs are absolutely overpowered. They literally have no weaknesses. high ranged damage, bubbles, healing, cc, slow, roots, maneuverability, and healing. Who's bright idea was that?!

 

sorc use lightening 90% of the time unlike balance sages who mix spells just press that little button called interrupt and bingo!

BW cannot patch auto interrupt you know.

 

Dunno why its so hard to understand.I did a WZ recently with 4 sorcs on their side i asked ppl to use interrupt but guess how many did yep me only.So ofc they keep pumping it out.

Edited January 27, 2012 by ranlaen

[Jest]

(For those unaware of Bright Wizards, they are a class in Warhammer Online. At launch, the class had far too powerful of attacks earned early on which resulted in the warzones being 50%+ Bright Wizards, with them topping the damage charts)

 

Bright Wizards were a problem because their mechanic of building up heat and exploding wasn't hurting them bad enough and their AoE was absolutely smashing the crap out of everyone it hit.

 

Sages/Sorcs have no such ability to become more powerful the more they cast and the AoE isn't a death dealer unless it's multiple AoE's or you're already being hit by other classes.

[Cegenaus]

Look, another one of these threads. OP, like every other person qqing about Sorc, simply needs to practice PvP.

 

shield lasts through one dps rotation. So, in about 6s, you can burn down the shield. You then have 14 seconds to pump out enough dps to kill a cloth-wearing caster. Can't do it? Ur Bad.

 

Force Lightning has no CD for most hybrid dps specs, and procs our insta-casts. See a Sorc spamming FL? He's trying to proc an instant cast. Get LOS, interrupt, or cc. Can't do it? Ur Bad.

 

Healing spec Sorcs have mediocre dps and healing hybrid specs are rare. Is a Sorc healing through all your damage? Great. That means he's not healing his team, and a ball carrier/bomb planter/turret capture is getting wasted by focus fire. Either switch targets, or call the focus on the healer. Can't do it? Ur Bad.

 

A specific spec is needed to get all the CC a Sorc has, and most of it procs from used abilities. Blind happens when our shield is blown up, and lasts 3s. It's melee ranged. Our pbaoe knockback has to be spec'd to root you, and lasts for 5s, assuming you're not getting damaged, otherwise it's 2. You should be geared enough to whether one or two whole GCD's worth of time the Sorc has to dps you. Can't do it? Ur Bad.

 

I know most people want to cover up the fact that they suck at pvp by saying "omg, sorcs are everywhere, therefore OP!!11!1!" but it's just not reality. Sorcs are not the class doing 4.5k+ crits over the course of one knockdown, coming out of stealth. Sorcs are not the class spamming 1 (one) ability while wearing heavy armor doing the same amount of dps as Sorc, more even. Sorc is not the class spider healing in heavy armor turtling doors or turrets while spamming one dps ability. Most of you are whiners that need practice, that is all.

 

no sorc is the class that is popping bubbles every 20 seconds, spamming their slow every 4 seconds, pulling their teammates up onto ledges, and incombat speed bursting away from combat and through burners. name one class that can cc that much

 

btw, this "spamming 1 ability" ******** is getting old. go learn to read and then come back and make a valid argument against merc

Edited January 27, 2012 by Cegenaus

[Aramand]

Not a sorceror. I love interrupting them and killing them. Most of them are easy.

 

As soon as you learn WHAT you need to do to interrupt them, you'll love killing them too.

 

I play a sorcerer and it is VERY easy to die as this class. I have noticed my survivability has gone up with the more Champion gear I am getting, but to be honest...There are a number of classes that need to be looked at first besides a sorcerer.

 

1) The Trooper and Grav round spam...2k 2k 2k...I mean ***? Why give heavy armor to a turret that cam pump out a ton of damage?

 

2) Bounty Hunters...both MERCS and Powertechs...***? Heavy DPS and survivability here.

 

3) Jedi Shadows...stealth, ranged attacks and heavy melee damage.

 

4) Smugglers...Gunslinger and Scoundrel. Stealth for scoundrel awith the scattergun blast to the back of the head and death soon afterwards in a few seconds (more like 6 or so)

 

5) Juggernaughts and Guardians. Who the hell thought about balance by letting them hit for upwards of 4600 points? unreal.

 

Sith Sorcerers are dangerous when left alone because they spam low damage force powers. I stress... LOW damage. I finally got a medal for 2.5k from a Crit death field. The average damage from force lightning is 300. If I buff up I may be able to get it to 900 per tick. Hell, I have even had my force lightning do less than 100 points to someone. I can't remember the class. One nice ability, but again it is low damage, is lightning storm. It is great when a ton of people are close together, but hitting for 200 a tick is not impressive. I have seen the odd 400 hit though, but still. 400 points of damage when you have between 16k to 20k health is not all that much.

 

Play a sorcerer and you will see what I mean. We wear light armor and die FAST! We are easily interupted. Most of the time my heal takes too long to cast and I never get it off before I die.

 

Simple rules to balance:

 

Light armor - most dps very little damage reduction

Medium armor - middle DPS and middle dmage reduction

Heavy armor - Light dps with higher damage reduction

 

A duel between a light armor and heavy armor toon should be close to a draw with all abilities being used by your average player with 50% of the duels being won by both sides. Damage and damage mitigation should be tweaked to make this happen. Failing to do this results in OP'd classes...like we have now

[Gorra-Syn]

The only thing about Sorc/Sage that needs to be looked at is healing. To see it take 2 or 3 people to take one down because they heal for sooo much is a little crazy.. otherwise I think they are fine, but maybe that's just me.

[Jest]

Not good enougth excuse,if there is too much of something then is a tell tale sign of something,it was not Op's/Scoundrels the casting classes did their number to that class.

 

False logic. Ops by far had the highest burst dmg and kill rate and they weren't overly numerous.

 

There's also far more DPS Sorcs on Imp side than there are DPS Sages on Repub side. But everyday there's more and more Sorcs and Sages.. not because they ARE OP.. but because they keep reading these threads that say they are, which are written by people who have absolutely no understanding of the class whatsoever.

 

The majority of the people who play this game are terrible at PvP. They don't use their own CC correctly, they BREAK the CC of others that IS used correctly, nobody interrupts anything, and you see someone try to break LoS on a Ranged Class once in a blue moon.

 

The only common skill I see is the ability to spot a low enemy health bar and dogpile on it to try to get the KB.

 

Getting hit by Lightning or Rocks? Interrupt the channel! Now they're locked out of it for a bit and can't Proc their highest dmg DoT instant cast!

 

Got CC'd? Wait it out! If you don't blow your escape immediately you won't get CC'd again!

 

Tried the above and still got "chain cc'd?" They're smarter than you and realize that Roots aren't on the Resolve List so they mixed it up and kept you from going immune. Don't like that? Me either. Whine to Bioware about THAT instead of claiming a class you know nothing about is OP.

 

 

And honestly a team of Sorcs/Sages can be countered by a team of JK's and SW's. Force Leaps 2 second root doesn't set off resolve so just have your team of Leapers chain leap and attack and the sorcs will drop FAST.

[Rallic]

In the past week, warzones has been way overpopulated by sage and sorcs, just now I got out of a voidstar against 7 sages and it was misserable having them ALL spam tk throw over and over and over and over.

 

Too bad I deleted my sorc a while ago, guess I'm going to join them until the nerfbat arrives.

 

Good then you will see for your self that they are not in any way op. More of one class is not op , the talk about them being op is driving it but I will bet that 80% rolling sorcs thinking them to be op will stop playing them and roll a merc .

 

I die very very fast have to use a crit relic to stand a chance of doing good dps on most classes. I'm not a gimp in any way but op not even close.

 

Iv got a heal/dps build , I all most never use the aoe to pad dps.

 

I get.around 40ish kills in most bgs win or lose with 150-200k dps how is that in any way op.

Stop looking at the ships farming low kill aoe spamers that help out not at all. You see the dps but have no idea what your talking about .

 

I can brake the 300k dps Mark and 60ish kills on my L15gunslinger .

[Aramand]

sorc use lightening 90% of the time unlike balance sages who mix spells just press that little button called interrupt and bingo!

BW cannot patch auto interrupt you know.

 

Dunno why its so hard to understand.I did a WZ recently with 4 sorcs on their side i asked ppl to use interrupt but guess how many did yep me only.So ofc they keep pumping it out.

 

Healing takes 3s to case or 2.5 if you spec more into it. This is for the bigger heal mind you. The lesser heal just doesn't cut it because you take more damage than that heal can take.

 

Heal is easily interupted.

 

Static barrier pops easily enough and has a 20s cooldown. Again, sorcerers are light armor...so giving them a shield ability does make sense.

 

Force lightning and lightning storm requires us to stand still and get wiped.

 

We have a few abilities that work while moving...but they are minimal damage. <less than 1k> except for death field in which case that one does on average around 1.2k damage unless it crits (around 2.5k).

 

Sorcerers do sustained damage. Numerous times a class has healed to full while I was attacking them. We could not push out enough damage to kill them. This was a trooper/BH. They turn around and spam their rocket/grav round attack and we are dead.

 

Play a sorcerer and see how weak they really are..unless you are too busy playing troopers or BH's.

[Rallic]

no sorc is the class that is popping bubbles every 20 seconds, spamming their slow every 4 seconds, pulling their teammates up onto ledges, and incombat speed bursting away from combat and through burners. name one class that can cc that much

 

btw, this "spamming 1 ability" ******** is getting old. go learn to read and then come back and make a valid argument against merc

 

Oil so your saying mercs are not one spell wounder I win healing , high very high dps aoeing heavy armor using spider healing op fotm class.

Hahahahahaha

[Sathid]

False logic. Ops by far had the highest burst dmg and kill rate and they weren't overly numerous.

 

There's also far more DPS Sorcs on Imp side than there are DPS Sages on Repub side. But everyday there's more and more Sorcs and Sages.. not because they ARE OP.. but because they keep reading these threads that say they are, which are written by people who have absolutely no understanding of the class whatsoever.

 

The majority of the people who play this game are terrible at PvP. They don't use their own CC correctly, they BREAK the CC of others that IS used correctly, nobody interrupts anything, and you see someone try to break LoS on a Ranged Class once in a blue moon.

 

The only common skill I see is the ability to spot a low enemy health bar and dogpile on it to try to get the KB.

 

Getting hit by Lightning or Rocks? Interrupt the channel! Now they're locked out of it for a bit and can't Proc their highest dmg DoT instant cast!

 

Got CC'd? Wait it out! If you don't blow your escape immediately you won't get CC'd again!

 

Tried the above and still got "chain cc'd?" They're smarter than you and realize that Roots aren't on the Resolve List so they mixed it up and kept you from going immune. Don't like that? Me either. Whine to Bioware about THAT instead of claiming a class you know nothing about is OP.

 

 

And honestly a team of Sorcs/Sages can be countered by a team of JK's and SW's. Force Leaps 2 second root doesn't set off resolve so just have your team of Leapers chain leap and attack and the sorcs will drop FAST.

 

Thats because most did not know Op's were the burst class,but they sure did know the inquis/sorc was stun,heal,bubble,damage etc and everyone wanted to be the reincarnation of Darth Maul.

 

So what happened when the Op's showed up the "Kids" said no no nooo we cannot let this happen,we were meant to be the true burst class,that is what they want,they always do,but they want everything with all the effects.

 

Human's are selfish animals,get to over 30 or better yet 40 years of age (You may be i do not know,there is selfish people at all ages too) and you know all there is about 14 to early 20 year olds and the expectations and false illusions they have,it's not their fault,its part of growing up.

 

So the cycle continues in the mmo world of dumbing down and nerfs with little understanding and developers cater to the lowest common.

 

Sorcs/Inquis is that class in this game period.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Sathid

[Pawe]

I read the forums a lot, and it's funny how many people complain about nerds being needed and classes being overpowered.

 

I PvP a bunch, more than questing/grinding by far, and the classes seem to be holding up to their roles pretty well.

 

I play a burst dps operative. I stealth, find a squishy, and unload on them. I have to wait till I see their shield go away, and interrupt their heals.

 

If I get caught out of stealth by a sorc I can be ranged and kited down fairly easily.

 

Tanks can take a beating, but their DPS isn't on par.

 

Healers can stay alive too, but their DPS is not much.

 

It seems like everyone wants to be able to eat every other class. That's not how it works, know your roll and play rock paper scissors to pick your battles.

[Feztonio]

it's not just you. For over a month ppl have been saying the mercs and sorcs are op. Ops got the most yelling, so they got nerfed first. Mercs just go "uh uh... Look at the sorc ****" and sorcs go "**** that ops just 2 shot me". Now that the ops nerf i think sorcs will be looked at next.

 

I can very comfortably say that over 50% of people in warzones will be sorc and merc. This is sad cuz if everything was equal and people could just play what they want they would make up 25%. I myself rolled assassin and find huttball the most painful thing in the world. Rerolled a merc and find it too brainless. So yeah, i will roll a sorc. It's like wow when arena came out. Wanna be good? Roll druid or warr.

 

But let's not forget, it's a l2p issue when 2 classes make up 50% of warzones.

 

 

there's only 4 classes !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Of course there's going to be alot of each class!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Theres!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Only!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Four!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Classes!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sathid]

I read the forums a lot, and it's funny how many people complain about nerds being needed and classes being overpowered.

 

I PvP a bunch, more than questing/grinding by far, and the classes seem to be holding up to their roles pretty well.

 

I play a burst dps operative. I stealth, find a squishy, and unload on them. I have to wait till I see their shield go away, and interrupt their heals.

 

If I get caught out of stealth by a sorc I can be ranged and kited down fairly easily.

 

Tanks can take a beating, but their DPS isn't on par.

 

Healers can stay alive too, but their DPS is not much.

 

It seems like everyone wants to be able to eat every other class. That's not how it works, know your roll and play rock paper scissors to pick your battles.

 

Well said,as it stands right now it seems very balanced but inquis healing in PvP should be looked at and the Powertechs damage if they follow through with the changes to Op's.

[Nomiematiko]

I like how all these sorcs tell you they insta die to interrupt. Which is a blatant lie, lol. Are you just going to stand there after i interrupt you and do nothing for 4 seconds, and also wait for my 9 seconds interrupt to cool down before you do anything? Or use your knock back that roots me and force speed off or use one of your 2 cc abilities? 4 seconds pass and its back to spamming force lightning with your nice bubble before my interrupt cool downs.

 

 

shield specc but pvp talents or Shield/assault hybrid vanguard with dps gear, high impact bolt and stockstrike it so hard that they seem paper, what u need to do is stop crying and get you full battlemaster gear and see how melee becomes insanely stronger than casters

Edited January 27, 2012 by Nomiematiko

[Piriste]

.

Sorcs arguably have the worst single target of any spec in game and are BY FAR the squishiest.

 

What!?

 

Smugglers and IA are way much more squishy than sorcs, thanks to your bubbles.

[CommandoPower]

False logic. Ops by far had the highest burst dmg and kill rate and they weren't overly numerous.

 

There's also far more DPS Sorcs on Imp side than there are DPS Sages on Repub side. But everyday there's more and more Sorcs and Sages.. not because they ARE OP.. but because they keep reading these threads that say they are, which are written by people who have absolutely no understanding of the class whatsoever.

 

The majority of the people who play this game are terrible at PvP. They don't use their own CC correctly, they BREAK the CC of others that IS used correctly, nobody interrupts anything, and you see someone try to break LoS on a Ranged Class once in a blue moon.

 

The only common skill I see is the ability to spot a low enemy health bar and dogpile on it to try to get the KB.

 

Getting hit by Lightning or Rocks? Interrupt the channel! Now they're locked out of it for a bit and can't Proc their highest dmg DoT instant cast!

 

Got CC'd? Wait it out! If you don't blow your escape immediately you won't get CC'd again!

 

Tried the above and still got "chain cc'd?" They're smarter than you and realize that Roots aren't on the Resolve List so they mixed it up and kept you from going immune. Don't like that? Me either. Whine to Bioware about THAT instead of claiming a class you know nothing about is OP.

 

 

And honestly a team of Sorcs/Sages can be countered by a team of JK's and SW's. Force Leaps 2 second root doesn't set off resolve so just have your team of Leapers chain leap and attack and the sorcs will drop FAST.

 

No the logic is spot on but they left out the qualification that it needs to be easy to play. Ops didn't gain their holy crapness until close to max level and until then were much harder to play than so a sorc or faceroll tracer/grav round spammer.

 

Also believe it or not alot of people would still be terrible, least with grav/tracer spam or sorc/sage channel spam they could be complete derps and still kill people. Or in the case of sorc/sage either kill someone or bubble and force speed away before they could be stopped by the majority of the player base.

 

Bright Wizards were a problem because their mechanic of building up heat and exploding wasn't hurting them bad enough and their AoE was absolutely smashing the crap out of everyone it hit.

 

Sages/Sorcs have no such ability to become more powerful the more they cast and the AoE isn't a death dealer unless it's multiple AoE's or you're already being hit by other classes.

 

Sadly it initially did kill them pretty quick. I rolled one before they changed it because I wanted to see how one melted my face so fast. I could prolly burst down 2 people before killing myself with nobody hurting me. Or I could settle for more steady damage and kill 5-6 people before destroying myself. Obviously speccing into DOTS would have been a bit better than that still.

 

 

Then they changed it to have low crit and far lower damage and you could just run at max crit and the occasional heal was all you needed.

[Garnot]

I love sorcs myself, they always die so easily, they can spam their heals when dps specced all they want it'll give them what? 3 seconds longer to live before they die?

 

The only thing OP about a sorc is the fact that they can spam their dmg abilities for 20 minutes without any form of reguard on conserving like EVERY other class in the game does, no class can really spam stuff for more then what? 5-6 sec? A sorc can probably do it for uhm.. 2-3 minutes atleast. But other then being able to constantly hammer out their abilities I'd say the class is pretty crappy, haven't met a sorc yet that hasn't died within 10 seconds.

[Sathid]

Well there should be a class or two that does not require a multitude of buttons and be easy to play,some ppl may not have the reaction time as others and they should be able to play and have fun too.

 

This is not a hardcore game and especially a hardcore PvP game,it will never be so people with those expectations should stop,you will never attain the gear so that your toon can kill 3 or more people and act like some God,i just dont see it happening,nor should it.