Truga Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I feel you should have to actually do difficult things to earn the best gear. So make crafting difficult. Besides, it's not like raiding and PVP is particularly difficult in this game it's just a grind, just like crafting is. Why should crafting be stripped of all it's usefulness bar Biochem, when it's not really any "easier" than running a raid a couple times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syylara Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 So make crafting difficult. Besides, it's not like raiding and PVP is particularly difficult in this game it's just a grind, just like crafting is. Why should crafting be stripped of all it's usefulness bar Biochem, when it's not really any "easier" than running a raid a couple times. Because some people want to feel validated by a video game and ascribe an over-inflated sense of importance to their in-game "accomplishments." If other forms of activity lead to the same level of rewards as they receive, the illusion of value that sustains their self-image would lose its potency. :9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PjPablo Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Because some people want to feel validated by a video game and ascribe an over-inflated sense of importance to their in-game "accomplishments." If other forms of activity lead to the same level of rewards as they receive, the illusion of value that sustains their self-image would lose its potency. :9 Why do you play? If the answer is 'fun', what makes it fun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truga Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Why do you play? If the answer is 'fun', what makes it fun? I play because I find raiding fun. I play because I find space missions fun. I play because I find crafting fun. I play because I find PVP fun. Why should I be pigeonholed into raiding if I want to get my gear in a normal amount of time? Raiding a single instance is only fun for so long, after that it gets boring. Mixing things up is always a good thing. And yes, I want all the best gear. I have this sort of OCD that if there's a quest on any planet that I can do and haven't done, I'll go do it _now_. If there's a piece of gear I don't have yet sorted in my bank, I need it _now_. If there's a bonus I missed in a space mission, I'll restart it until I catch it. And so on. Yes, I find all this fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baracca Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Crafting gear is meant to give you a foot step into Raiding, whats the point in end game Raid when you can just make better gear from crafting. i will say one thing tho, there should be at least 1 item end game crafting that is bind on pick up and will be better than raid gear. yes, they need to do (at least) what wow did. like how mining gave stamina, JC gave u access to those epic gems, belt slot, wrist enchant, shoulder enchant etc... that were a bit better than what you could get normally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Verja_ Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 You need to raid to get the materials for your gear, if you don't want to pay someone else for your gear. Crafting is just another source of gear, it doesn't invalidate raiding. Except, crafting will obviously use components out of new content, and new content will bring new components/mats and better gear. It's just like saying "I'd rather see that than everyone just have completed raid X and get Y item the second they hit 50 and never have to worry about upgrading." It's simply not true, upgrades happen when new content/gear is released, whether the gear is crafted or gotten from raids. The instances I've seen of upgrades in crafting from raids has left a bad taste in my mouth. usually a few people on the server get the brand new pattern and everyone just pays for it as soon as possible (since generally in between patches there isn't much to spend money on). Now if Bioware could do this in a more creative way then I'm all for it, but to be honest with what they have done so far I wouldn't hold my breath. IMO just make each proff have proff specific perks (that balance out) and leave it at that. Make it so they can make gear so that you can raid as soon as you hit 50, and let the upgrades come from that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiepMiep Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 PvP needs to be SKILL based not gear based. Then maybe play rather a shooter but a mmporg? Just a suggestion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirricvirru Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Honestly if the gear wasn't in the instances(flash points) would most people spend the time in the instances to gear-up? At first they are indeed fun, but at a certain point you aren't playing through that content for the story/cinematics. You want the gear. The game would turn into farm the mats and build the items and instances would be ignored. Now maybe if they incorporated mats from some items only coming from the instances instead of the items themselves another dynamic could be added to the game. Extra social aspect and adds a new level to what it means to be a crafter and people would still have to work together to get a hold of the mats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziegler Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 crafted gear can be sold - therefore crafted best in slot gear can be obtained without clearing content if you have enough gold/credits/whatever. That's why. Outside of goldsellers...... How is a person to get credits without doing content? Charity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziegler Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Honestly if the gear wasn't in the instances(flash points) would most people spend the time in the instances to gear-up? At first they are indeed fun, but at a certain point you aren't playing through that content for the story/cinematics. You want the gear. The game would turn into farm the mats and build the items and instances would be ignored. Now maybe if they incorporated mats from some items only coming from the instances instead of the items themselves another dynamic could be added to the game. Extra social aspect and adds a new level to what it means to be a crafter and people would still have to work together to get a hold of the mats. when someone that speaks about best gear in game coming from crafting. Imagine anything "epic" gear wise in a normal MMO and replace those pieces with "epic Materials" instead. So like example, downing the world boss droid or flashpoint boss, you could scavenge it for purple mats and schematics. So you would be farming mats instead of pieces of gear. This would actually be revolutionary with the modding system. I could keep the Cademimu Trenchcoat I like so much, and mod it on up with epic mods instead of farming gear suits. And lookies hear....everybody get to keep their own looks, and you wont be able to look at someone and say....oh yep...he has the T1 or T2 or PVP set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gleneagle Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Horribe idea imo. Crafted gear should never be the best ingame. Raidgear has to be the best, period. However crafting really is ****ed up atm. Way too easy and lame... You haven't been spending beau coups credits on crafting missions to try and get not just legendary mats, but particular legendary mats and apparently rare even among common legendaries when those elusive materials are required by the legendary schematics you managed to discover after re-engineering a dozen good and extraordinary blue pieces. It isn't exactly falling out of the trees into your waiting palm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truga Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) Poasts Listen to this man! Edited January 27, 2012 by Truga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthSublimitas Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Because like most everything else in the game, it's broken and worthless. The devs would rather nerf skills than fix bugs and add more content that is, more likely than not, bugged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsillah Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I don't necessarily think crafting should yield the best possible gear. I do think there is a problem in the current set up. What I see is that the difference between gear is too big. I have level 50 orange gear at the moment with the armour mods from the dailies all done. I have 14400 hp. When I see people running around in high end gear, they can have around 20k hp. It doesn't end there, but that's the most visible difference. I don't know if crafting can match my gear even, but the fact that there is such a difference between level 50s just because of the gear is a bit of a weird thing to me. Surely the difference between the two could've been reduced to maybe 2k hp etc... I suppose they want to motivate people to do the endgame, but the effect on pvp is detrimental to the game I think. Too big a difference won't motivate people to go for the better gear, but it will motivate a lot of people to give up on pvp and possibly the game in the end. Just my point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonson Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I actually miss the old daoc crafting system. Make 10-20 of each armor piece to get an exceptional one. Theorycrafting the over-enchant on them, and then hoping it doesn't explode. But then, I also miss my Ranger with a stealth score just high enough to avoid being seen by anything but rogues, and almost all my points in melee so when they jumped me they'd get a surprise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImperialSun Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I disagree with the notion of crafted gear being only entry level. It depends how you set the game up. Unfortunately, SWTOR is using the formula of dropped gear/tier gear etc being the ultimate goal. But I will to this day, say that the early days (because thats what I remember) of SWG were one of the best implementations of a player economy. Everything worthwhile using, was player created. The best weapons, the best armor, the houses, everything. Heck, being a crafting class itself was really cool. People have this idea in their head, that the only way to do things, is to beat a big baddie until he drops your phat lewts. When there exists this whole wonderful world out there, that can be completely focused around crafting. You Sir, win the interwebz for today The crafting system / economy in SWG has never been equalled let alone bettered. I know SWG had its many problems like all MMORPGs but I defy anyone to name a MMORPG with a better crafting system / economy of player dependency.... Those were the days Driz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckroll Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I agree completely, scrap expertise to make pvp skill based not gear based and make crafted gear the best possible, so there is a player economy. Drop crafting components in PvE and PvP for them. That way you have to use the GTN or work with a guild. It would also stop loot drama since everyone would have legitmate reasons to roll on the drops in PvE, and in PvP everyone would have a seperate roll to get a crafting component at the end of the match. If you want to be anti-social then you can sell components and buy the end product, or just craft for yourself with alts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kourage Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 It'd be nice if crafted gear was at least a stepping stone towards reaching the best gear. It's not. People just wear what they got from questing and leap frog over it. Why would anyone waste their credits on crafted gear that don't need? It's not the best, nor needed to get the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iskareot Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Yeah this concept is null... At no way should it be... ever. High end, get 18 people together and use EFFORT AND TIME AND CREDITS... should be the hardest to get gear. i.e. Risk vs Reward or... Apply effort, time, MMO concepts and team work should be. Hence MMO... while crafting should be behind it not far...or even a mix... get items from SAID raids and craft them was always the concept I liked. Making it even more valued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnasche Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) I've taken a few ideas from this thread and added my own for this solution to make crafted gear BiS and also require raiding. 1. Completing an operation gives you a passive ability to wear a certain type of crafted gear. For this example, let's just say, successfully completing "Eternity Vault" gives you the passive ability to wear "Draconian armor". 2. "Draconian armor" is crafted-only. 3. The mats and schematics for that gear only drop in that operation. 4. Having a full set of "Draconian armor" would give you a bonus. 5. Each operation would allow access to a different armor type. This makes the gear dependent on completing the raid. Makes the crafters have to either get the mats and schematics from the raid or pay the raiders for mats and schematics. And makes the raiders either craft or pay the crafters. And, as a bonus, the most epic gear would require several different operations be completed successfully and have only one schematic-type in each operation, requiring completing several different operations to be able to wear and get it crafted. Feel free to shoot holes in this theory. Just throwing it out there. Edited January 27, 2012 by Gnasche Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Crueak Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) You Sir, win the interwebz for today The crafting system / economy in SWG has never been equalled let alone bettered. I know SWG had its many problems like all MMORPGs but I defy anyone to name a MMORPG with a better crafting system / economy of player dependency.... Those were the days Driz this is very easy to answer EVE-ONLINE - Simply every non starter item is player crafted. There is nothing provided by NPC stations other the Skills and some low starter items. The whole game requires teh crafters(carebears) and pvpers to co exist. with out one or the other the whole thing collapses. that is the true definition of dependency! Edited January 27, 2012 by Mr_Crueak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truga Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) this is very easy to answer EVE-ONLINE - Simply every non starter item is player crafted. There is nothing provided by NPC stations other the Skills and some low starter items. The whole game requires teh crafters(carebears) and pvpers to co exist. with out one or the other the whole thing collapses. that is the true definition of dependency! In eve online, the best "gear" still comes from "raids", though. You can't build plex/officer items. Then again, those are only used on supercaps and machs these days. Edited January 27, 2012 by Truga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arandmoor Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 You Sir, win the interwebz for today The crafting system / economy in SWG has never been equalled let alone bettered. I know SWG had its many problems like all MMORPGs but I defy anyone to name a MMORPG with a better crafting system / economy of player dependency.... Those were the days Driz Ugh...play more games. Where crafting is concerned Eve Online's worst day blew SWG's best day away. Hard. For crafting, Eve is what SWG wished it could be when it grew up. Then Galaxies developed a drug habbit, and "reinvented" itself a few times before passing away without actually accomplishing anything significant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Crueak Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) In eve online, the best "gear" still comes from "raids", though. You can't build plex/officer items. Then again, those are only used on supercaps and machs these days. but thsoe supercaps and machs are player created are they not, without the ships those officer items are worthless. Besides i did not say ALL items I said most and by most atleast 95% or more is player created with the rare exception of what you mentioned. Although i would argue about the plex as that is still player ran, players dictate the cost just like they do everything else in the market. Either way the point was the eve online had just as good a crafting economic system as SWG had, and alot that have experienced it would say EVE's model completely out does anything swg did. Edited January 27, 2012 by Mr_Crueak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HileyQuiggley Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 The big picture I could be happy with and it would please most who dont agree totally with me: Raids give you high tier mats PvP gives high tier mats with Expertise The players craft the best gear without mats. The crafters that create mats would still make money until certain player fills all the holes with raid mats or flashpoints. Would make crafting significant at 50 and also would keep raids going. Please impliment.... /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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