Vengance vrs. Rage (PvP) Pros and Cons.

[KinkyFluff]

More like Sunder-> Impale-> Scream -> Shatter -> Smash Ravage or whatever you want. so on and so forth. Once the dots start ticking and the damage starts running, their health goes down quite fast. Remember to always do some attacks.

 

Took me a bit to perfect the "rotation" as its something different from rage.

Edited March 12, 2012 by KinkyFluff

[blackdots]

Move unstoppable to the 2nd tier of the vengeance tree and I'll be the happiest Jug in the world.

[Dracosz]

I switched to veng last night to give it a shot. So far vengeance is a joke, but I'm willing to give it a while to see if its me needing to l2p the spec. I'm half battle/champ geared with most enhancement/mods switched to power.

 

My biggest hitters are force scream and viscous throw.... the latter of which I cant use unless under 20% health.

 

Perhaps I'm looking at this wrong, but my objective is to sunder something impale/shatter and then hit off force screams... hope to get them below 20% so I can rotate my force scream/viscous throw????

 

You need to weave in more attacks. Not using smash or ravage in the intermittent space really drops the damage down. Despite what other posters have said vengeances dots are quite good over time. They may not hit for a lot initially, but they certainly add up and the longer you stay on a target the more difficult it becomes for them to deal with you.

[SIDIOUSFAN]

Rage is fine as it is. Don't change it. Yes you are reliant on smash in order to make the spec work. It's how it works. If you don't like it, just stick with vengeance. Rage has good damages once players are geared properly. If you are a vengeance jug and you find that the vengeance spec is gimped or something, I do support upgrading it.

 

But please stop whining about rage being bad, it's a very fun spec to play as it is at the moment, I really don't want it to be dumbed down, broken or destroyed. And i know there are a lot of people who agree with me. No nerfs, no upgrades please.

 

It's easier to break things than to fix them. What is broken should be fixed, don't touch what is working well.

Edited March 12, 2012 by SIDIOUSFAN

[Dracosz]

Rage is fine as it is. Don't change it. Yes you are reliant on smash in order to make the spec work. It's how it works. If you don't like it, just stick with vengeance. Rage has good damages once players are geared properly. If you are a vengeance jug and you find that the vengeance spec is gimped or something, I do support upgrading it.

 

But please stop whining about rage being bad, it's a very fun spec to play as it is at the moment, I really don't want it to be dumbed down, broken or destroyed. And i know there are a lot of people who agree with me. No nerfs, no upgrades please.

 

It's easier to break things than to fix them. What is broken should be fixed, don't touch what is working well.

 

Rage's issues are tied primarily to animation delay and a lack of synchronization between the man tree and the rest of the spec (which props up vicious slash quite a bit). Like it or not, Rage needs to have some fundamental changes to it's outer mechanics. I'm not saying that the core mechanics should be changed, shockwave and dominate are really core to the tree.

 

The issue is, Rage is effectively defined by 5 talents Shockwave, Dominate, Crush, Obliterate and Dark resonance (One could arguably make the case for interceptor as well).

 

These 9 talent points are the defining core of the tree and are the fundamental reason the tree functions. You could theoretically take away the other 22 points and still maintain the playstyle (it would be less effective, arguable, but regardless still work).

 

That needs to change in my opinion and the other talents in the tree need to reflect that.

 

Besides, having more in your arsenal to work with is never a bad thing.

Edited March 12, 2012 by Dracosz

[bananaface]

don't touch what is working well.

 

amen bro

Edited March 12, 2012 by bananaface

[SIDIOUSFAN]

Rage's issues are tied primarily to animation delay and a lack of synchronization between the man tree and the rest of the spec (which props up vicious slash quite a bit). Like it or not, Rage needs to have some fundamental changes to it's outer mechanics. ................................................................................................................................

Besides, having more in your arsenal to work with is never a bad thing.

 

 

I already know well the rage spec, I don't need no precisions about it. Thanks, though.

What I mean is that this spec is working well as it is at the moment ; by upgrading it and other non-core feats or the tree too much, it could bring it beyond the limit over "overpowerness " which would result in a lot of whining and moaning on the forum and thus, would lead to an inevitable nerf.

 

Every mmo class spec has lack luster feats, things have always worked like this in all mmos.

Edited March 12, 2012 by SIDIOUSFAN

[Dracosz]

I already know well the rage spec, I don't need no precisions about it. Thanks, though.

What I mean is that this spec is working well as it is at the moment ; by upgrading it and other non-core feats or the tree too much, it could bring it beyond the limit over "overpowerness " which would result in a lot of whining and moaning on the forum and thus, would lead to an inevitable nerf.

 

Every mmo class spec has lack luster feats, things have always worked like this in all mmos.

 

Grammar is a fantastic thing.

 

A lot of you seem to be forgetting that the fundamental game balance will be shifting in 1.2. This is THE time to talk about anything you as a player want to see added. I can guarantee that most players playing rage have SOME qualms with the spec and just because you "Feel like it's working" doesn't mean that the core mechanics should allow for the dev team to eschew every other talent point.

[kronomandar]

Grammar is a fantastic thing.

 

A lot of you seem to be forgetting that the fundamental game balance will be shifting in 1.2. This is THE time to talk about anything you as a player want to see added. I can guarantee that most players playing rage have SOME qualms with the spec and just because you "Feel like it's working" doesn't mean that the core mechanics should allow for the dev team to eschew every other talent point.

 

you make a valid point.

 

if i was to add something a little extra to rage, it would be something along the lines of unstoppable. something that provides a little survivability to what is essentialy a glass cannon.

by its very nature, rage shines brightest when in the middle of large groups of enemies during big fights. they arent burning single players down, they are smacking the whole lot for a a big burst, enhancing the rest of the teams chances of completing their single kills.

 

this combination of being in the middle of concentrations of enemies and hitting them all hard enough that they sit up and take notice leads to the inevitable demise of the defenseless rage jug in very short order.

[Actua]

two things that need to be adressed in the Rage tree:

 

1. Force choke pushback talent. I have no idea what it does, and if it does something, it is so negligible that it's not noticeable, hence making this 2 talent point talent a *********** piece of garbage.

 

2. Uninterruptible ravage. Useless in 99% of situations. In fact, most likely more detrimental to yourself than the ennemy.

[Helig]

two things that need to be adressed in the Rage tree:

 

1. Force choke pushback talent. I have no idea what it does, and if it does something, it is so negligible that it's not noticeable, hence making this 2 talent point talent a *********** piece of garbage.

 

2. Uninterruptible ravage. Useless in 99% of situations. In fact, most likely more detrimental to yourself than the ennemy.

 

Baseline root on Ravage plox :3 Also, allow Ravage to stack Singularity.

 

/flameshields on

[Soyuz]

I honestly feel ravage should hold the target in place by default, the talent for that should be a stun instead.

 

I'd also like to see some normalization in terms of melee dps- my lvl 35 bounty hunter does like 2200-3500 dmg while my lvl 50 juggernaut does 659-748 this in my opinion needs to be addressed.

[KinkyFluff]

What you are seeing there, in the character screen is a bug that multiplies your damage by 10. So, your ranged character has 220-350 damage. You can test this by doing some basic attacks and you'll see that you don't hit nearly anywhere for 2.2k with that attack.

[Locustone]

Some people like playing with their food, for those I would go with vengeance... Others like to put their food out of its misery fast, for those I would recommend rage. I hated vengeance in pvp, I could take people out one vs. one but with rage I had a chance 2 vs. one. PVE, I still like rage I found I kill the council fight faster and if you manage your rage properly you don't have any rage issues. Vengeance is so slow... Nuf said.

[Helig]

Some people like playing with their food, for those I would go with vengeance... Others like to put their food out of its misery fast, for those I would recommend rage. I hated vengeance in pvp, I could take people out one vs. one but with rage I had a chance 2 vs. one. PVE, I still like rage I found I kill the council fight faster and if you manage your rage properly you don't have any rage issues. Vengeance is so slow... Nuf said.

 

You said "rage" 5 times in 1 post.

[Ghaleon]

Some people like playing with their food, for those I would go with vengeance... Others like to put their food out of its misery fast, for those I would recommend rage. I hated vengeance in pvp, I could take people out one vs. one but with rage I had a chance 2 vs. one. PVE, I still like rage I found I kill the council fight faster and if you manage your rage properly you don't have any rage issues. Vengeance is so slow... Nuf said.

 

Putting "Nuf Said" at the end of any sentence immediately renders the points you made null and void.

[Dracosz]

Putting "Nuf Said" at the end of any sentence immediately renders the points you made null and void.

 

YOU ARE WRONG

 

nuff said.

 

Am I doing this right?

[Ghaleon]

YOU ARE WRONG

 

nuff said.

 

Am I doing this right?

 

I think you nailed it

[unclekaula]

I honestly feel ravage should hold the target in place by default, the talent for that should be a stun instead.

 

I'd also like to see some normalization in terms of melee dps- my lvl 35 bounty hunter does like 2200-3500 dmg while my lvl 50 juggernaut does 659-748 this in my opinion needs to be addressed.

 

 

When I use ravage, ~70% of the time I dont let it hit the 3rd time. However, when I do let it finish, it seems to hit the target even if they are no longer in range. Not sure if its just lag or what.

[MicroVirus]

For me it is Rage>Vengance.

To me I perfer have massive hit then a higher base dmg, before was other way around and here my small list of pros and cons

 

Rage Spec

Pros:

Epicly High Dmg Aoe(best for the spaming)

Easy reach(nice to get advantage that nobody gets away)

Force choke(Now there finally use from rage gain and stacking for higher smash)

 

Cons:

Horrid Animation(lol Waiting so long for smash go off, then knock back murders you)

Defence is sad(This is more self explainitory)

Boring from time(Your spaming like single attack over and over again lol)

 

Vengance Spec

Pros:

Nice Base dmg(Your form and most of talents help)

Energy managment(The form on vengance gives lots of rage)

Defence added(For all the people that like a more defence aproach)

 

Cons:

Chasing(Harder to chase the foe then a rage spec)

Dots(They are pretty sad damage)

Higher complexity(When rage you spamed like same thing over and over again now you have to think outside the box)

 

This is all I can say for now

Edited March 15, 2012 by MicroVirus