Grapple into spawn with ball, fair play?

[BombasticHoydens]

I think it's an exploit inasmuch as maybe it wasn't intended, but until further notice it's part of the game. So, regardless of whether it's going to be fixed or how soon, it's part of the game. And unlike other kinds of "exploits:"

 

1. Both sides can do it.

2. There are counters to it.

 

There is no reasonable counter to it. Unless you have something like Hydraulic Overrides or just so happen to be running full resolve then you're screwed. See that's what bugs me, because I play a PT and grapple people into fire all the time. And you know what? They live quite often, either I grapple and my stun is down so they manage to walk out or maybe they break my stun and escape.

 

Either way, it's a tactic being countered with fast reactions and skill. But such a counter does not exist for this tactic, it's as easy as press button and negate goal.

[Cellwin]

I don't understand how this would be any differant then the 1 million times I have been knocked back to instant death when crossing the bridges in Voidstar.

 

Is it the "I am about to score" part?

 

I would argue that when 4 players are advancing across a bridge and the other team only has 1 or 2 people that have respawned across it to stop them before the rest of their team catches up. One of the defenders runs to middle of bridge and knock backs all the players to their death. Is just as score preventing.

[AFuriousMind]

Either way, it's a tactic being countered with fast reactions and skill. But such a counter does not exist for this tactic, it's as easy as press button and negate goal.

 

Off the top of my head I thought of these:

 

1. Ball carrier is an assassin with Force Shroud up at final sprint.
    
   
2. Scorer waits at end zone in stealth and unstealths to accept pass.
    
   
3. Someone goes ahead of the runner to CC the dude standing up in the spawn area.
   

 

And there are probably other counters I'm not even thinking of.

[BombasticHoydens]

Off the top of my head I thought of these:

 

1. Ball carrier is an assassin with Force Shroud up at final sprint.
    
   
2. Scorer waits at end zone in stealth and unstealths to accept pass.
    
   
3. Someone goes ahead of the runner to CC the dude standing up in the spawn area.
   

 

And there are probably other counters I'm not even thinking of.

 

Most of those bank on the puller just standing on the ledge, rather then waiting until the ball handler gets close and walking just into visual range. And all those tactics bar one rely on having a teammate who knows the tactic in advance and is already at their goal before you're even in ball throwing range.

 

I really don't mind getting pulled into spawn and dying, it's just irritating that a long and well earned ball run could be stopped by a PT randomly spawning as I'm walking down and scoring an instant kill and getting the ball for his team.

[AFuriousMind]

Most of those bank on the puller just standing on the ledge, rather then waiting until the ball handler gets close and walking just into visual range. And all those tactics bar one rely on having a teammate who knows the tactic in advance and is already at their goal before you're even in ball throwing range.

 

I really don't mind getting pulled into spawn and dying, it's just irritating that a long and well earned ball run could be stopped by a PT randomly spawning as I'm walking down and scoring an instant kill and getting the ball for his team.

 

If they're that far back on the ledge they just end up trapped behind the spawn room door and can't do anything.

 

As for the tactics relying on someone having foreknowledge of the tactics, yes, all tactics require a bit of familiarity with the game.

[LowtierLogan]

HOW TO COUNTER GRAPPLE INTO SPAWN:

 

Throw them the ball before they grapple you, they will instantly die since having the ball on the ledge has the same effect as being on the enemy's ledge. The ball now comes back to you per regular mechanics and you score.

[BombasticHoydens]

If they're that far back on the ledge they just end up trapped behind the spawn room door and can't do anything.

 

As for the tactics relying on someone having foreknowledge of the tactics, yes, all tactics require a bit of familiarity with the game.

 

No, and believe me I've done a lot of range testing around that part of the map. While you can be hit even up against the wall on the ledge, it requires someone with long range like a Sniper to actually work. Very little CC is useable at that range, since you have to remember it's also a LoS thing with the physical wall being there preventing you from getting too close.

[AFuriousMind]

Then do what Logan suggests.

[Dzhokhar]

Wouldn't a Sniper/Gunslinger just be able to DPS them before you even get in range?

 

I've never actually seen the tactic used so I don't know what counters are viable.

[Barrechor]

By that definition, I can use speed hacks in Huttball to. That's cheating but, hey, cheating is encouraged so no big deal right?

 

Good *********** point! I suppose speed hacks just exploit flaws in the game mechanics just like the whole grapple BS.

 

But like you say, cheating is encouraged....

[Bohya]

Again, going to start using speed and teleport hacks, cheating is encouraged right?

 

If they make a speed hack button in game then I presume it would be OK. They have created the game so it is possible for them to use that abilty that way. BW has not created speed hack for it.

[yukirshiro]

HOW TO COUNTER GRAPPLE INTO SPAWN:

 

Throw them the ball before they grapple you, they will instantly die since having the ball on the ledge has the same effect as being on the enemy's ledge. The ball now comes back to you per regular mechanics and you score.

 

Uh, grapple has 30 yard range and is instant.

 

Throwing the ball has less than 30 yard range IIRC and takes time to get there, so they just step out of the way and it resets it.

 

In short, that's a terrible suggestion.

[Abanoth]

Again, going to start using speed and teleport hacks, cheating is encouraged right?

 

BUT DO NOT KICK THE BALL!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hutts don't have feet.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Abanoth

[Darth_Gao_Gao]

like everything else on this forum, this issue is exaggerated. no good player will do this, because it's retarded. hope this helps.

[Syrellaris]

For the love of christ, if I hear one more trooper/bh quote Baron Deathmark as evidence that this is working as intended I'm going to lose it.

 

The kill mechanic is working as intended but the grapple is supposed to count as a score given that the ball has crossed the line. I don't think it's a high priority fix at this point but eventually I suspect they will raise the height modifier on the goal area so that this exploit is fixed.

 

The mechanic means the ball has to be in the scoring line, not over it. I pull you OVER IT Towards me! So no its not exploiting and working as intended.

 

remember the rules of Huttball. Cheating is encouraged!

[BombasticHoydens]

like everything else on this forum, this issue is exaggerated. no good player will do this, because it's retarded. hope this helps.

 

Uh, care to elaborate? You say no good player would do it because it's retarded, but how so? Sure it's retarded that it's actually a pretty fool proof tactic if that's what you mean. I mean I'm not saying PTs just sit up there all day waiting for the ball carrier, but it certainly does happen a decent amount.

[yukirshiro]

It definitely happens. Not every game, because the PT has to time things right. But it does happen.

 

Much more common to see them just pull you into the fire instead though.

[LowtierLogan]

Uh, grapple has 30 yard range and is instant.

 

Throwing the ball has less than 30 yard range IIRC and takes time to get there, so they just step out of the way and it resets it.

 

In short, that's a terrible suggestion.

 

Ball throw has the same range as grapple and longer if you count the huge aoe. The aoe is much larger than the floor animation. You can easily stand outside of grapple range and throw it to them.

 

This is the most basic counter to it and if your opponent has a brain then yes you might have to use abilities that slow or root or stun for it to work. The point is that the same instakill mechanic can be used (abused) by both teams even when on opposite sides of the same situation. Hell you could even grapple him to you so he cant grapple you to the ledge.

Edited January 26, 2012 by LowtierLogan

[Syrellaris]

like everything else on this forum, this issue is exaggerated. no good player will do this, because it's retarded. hope this helps.

 

Uhh I have used it a few times in the last 10-20 seconds of a game. Hell I won a Draw 1-1 match with, by pulling the ball carrier into the spawn area in the last 4 seconds, giving me the ball in the last second. Bam Victory!

[Ryotknife]

Again, going to start using speed and teleport hacks, cheating is encouraged right?

 

unlike the grapple into the endzone while carrying the ball for instant death, speed/teleport hacks can be used in more places than huttball.....

 

its much easier to pull you into the fire btw.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Ryotknife

[Ryotknife]

Uh, care to elaborate? You say no good player would do it because it's retarded, but how so? Sure it's retarded that it's actually a pretty fool proof tactic if that's what you mean. I mean I'm not saying PTs just sit up there all day waiting for the ball carrier, but it certainly does happen a decent amount.

 

most people solo joining in a wz have the patience of a kid on speed.

[yukirshiro]

Ball throw has the same range as grapple and longer if you count the huge aoe. The aoe is much larger than the floor animation. You can easily stand outside of grapple range and throw it to them.

 

This is the most basic counter to it and if your opponent has a brain then yes you might have to use abilities that slow or root or stun for it to work.

 

So basically your argument is that in order to prevent the insta kill you have to:

 

1. Notice there's a PT waiting for you from outside 30 yards.

 

2. Have one player close enough to stun the PT.

 

3. Have your carrier throw the ball to the PT.

 

4. Hope the PT doesn't have their trinket up because if so you just wasted your chance to cap.

 

All that just to stop a single person from ruining your cap attempt.

 

And surely in this time nothing else is happening in the match.

 

It's stupid. My alt is a PT and there's no excuse for letting it happen. Grapple should not be usable from inside the insta-kill area. It would be a simple enough fix to put in a "you can't grapple to here" message.

Edited January 27, 2012 by yukirshiro

[Podrik]

There is one though that lets you stay up there but ya...Not gonna say how to do that.

 

I know of that one, easier then one would think

 

 

I've been pulled up several times and altho annoying as hell it is legit, Bioware themselves said so but I agree, it should count as a score since the player is passing the goalline..

 

Hell sometimes people get a score when they are standing 5 feet infront of it...

[Syrellaris]

what i meant is that most people describe this as OMG THE PT IS JUST SITTNIG THERE WAITING TO GRAPPLE ME THE ENTIRE MATCH!

 

if a pt is in the right place and the right time, i think it's a valid tactic for sure. it's just pretty rare, and retarded to focus on as an ubertactic. i have played too many games of huttball and have seen it happen like three or four times. the guys that try to stand on that ledge the entire match never really do anything, and are thus retarded, which was the basis of my original post.

 

Oh that. Yeah I hate that. I go out to fight, protect the ball carrier, be the ball carrier (tank). Stop the enemy ball carrier etc. Try to keep the enemy away from my ball carrier etc. If I die and happen to respawn and out of the forcefield while your running of the ramp to try and score, then yeah....I am gonne try and grapple you. However I will not Kill myself just to get there and wait for you maybe to show up.

Edited January 28, 2012 by Paralassa
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[NoxiousAlby]

It's in the rules explanation before the match, where it says cheating is encouraged.

 

Quoted for truth.......my Maurader will force choke you while running across the BBQ plates if your the ball carrier. The idea is to win, and in war there are no rules.