Powertech DPS in tank spec is too high compared to other tank specs in pvp

[yukirshiro]

Yay, I can burn 40% of my ammo and most likely drop into lower ammo regen band and I've just managed to take 20% of someone's hp.

 

You must be pretty bad at pvp if you can't see the advantage of being able to burst 3-5k at 30m range as a tank spec.

 

Also, you're doing it wrong if you're losing 40% of your ammo at once. Sticky has a 3 sec activation. Sticky....auto...>rail costs minimal heat/ammo.

 

 

Not to mention DFA. You can actually blow someone up pretty good with sticky-->cryo---> DFA---rail although it is a bit of an ammo dump.

 

I can assure you as somene who plays both that juggs would love to have the option to rage dump on someone from 30m for a big chunk of their health as a guardbot.

[bakedpotter]

Not complaining per se. Like I said I'd like to see juggs buffed to have similar DPS in tank spec, not PT tanks nerfed.

 

But the idea there isn't a significant disparity is laughable.

 

Now thats gold. Jugs dps spec can aoe an unlimited number of targets in range for an average of 5k to 6k per hit. There are 100 crybaby threads just like this one about nerfing jugs. lol fail forums.

[Kuari]

Actually, Powertechs don't have higher DPS, they just have more armor penetrating DPS in tank spec then other tanks. Against squishies? I'd actually say that the assassin is superior in DPS in tank spec.

 

Now thats gold. Jugs dps spec can aoe an unlimited number of targets in range for an average of 5k to 6k per hit. There are 100 crybaby threads just like this one about nerfing jugs. lol fail forums.

 

Notice tank spec (as in talents, NOT AC) is what's being discussed.. don't change the subject.

 

Well powertechs are handsdown the strongest tanks in PVP no questions asked.

 

...really? What do they have for surviving that the other two don't do better?

Edited January 26, 2012 by Kuari

[Sutr]

Well powertechs are handsdown the strongest tanks in PVP no questions asked.

 

Yeah but thats do more to the fact that the other tanks are really weak in pvp. Fundamentally though there no ene goes pure tank specs for pt as shields are worthless because so few things proc them therefore we take everything that increases railshot instead because its the fastest way to increase our burst. Their also the only viable spec because we are the only tank that can directly increase their mitigation through proper speccing. The other tanks skill tree mostly increase their defense which as we know a majority of attacks can flat ignore. The answer is twofold buff juggs/assasin tanks and make it so defenses and shields count against more attacks. The pt's who want to tank will go deeper into their shield tree and juggs tank tree will be worth it.

[yukirshiro]

Utility and dps are not the same. Read the thread title one more time for me.

 

I'm not talking about dps. You seem bad at reading.

 

Most PT utility is baseline. Stun, aoe stun, grapple, stealth detect is all baseline.

 

Overall, PTs are missing friendly charge + knockback compared to juggs, and they gain grapple + stealth detect. That's hardly a clear advantage one way or the other, except maybe on huttball, where juggs can bounce all the way to the finish line if the enemy lines up right. Although grapple is pretty wicked in huttball too.

[yukirshiro]

Now thats gold. Jugs dps spec can aoe an unlimited number of targets in range for an average of 5k to 6k per hit. There are 100 crybaby threads just like this one about nerfing jugs. lol fail forums.

 

Nobody's talking about dps jugg spec. We've already been over that. Try to keep up.

[Kryptorchid]

Honestly, no one is running a "tank spec" since shields are utter **** in PvP. What most people are doing is doing a 21/x/x build or a straight-up DPS build but using Ion Cell/whatever the other tanking forms are, since Ion Cell is the biggest mitigation ability in PvP, and using DPS PvP Gear. Edited January 26, 2012 by Kryptorchid

[lJustAlexl]

OP, no pure tank spec will ever hit for 3k with any ability, let alone 5k.

 

You're complaining about tank/dps hybrids deep in dps trees. Pointless complaint.

[beliglath]

Where to even begin: force choke, force scream, backhand, force push.

 

Where are you even getting the impression that powertechs get a knockback?

 

 

 

3k-5k? as a tank spec? not likely.

 

tbh i tought that the knockback was part of their core class just like the inquisitors

 

Force choke its only 3 secs wich gives you only 1 gcd to attack your target.

 

Force scream its just an attack that provides a 1k shield once every 12 secs, and as a tank some powertechs (dps) have killed me in less than that with elemental damage

 

Force Push is REALLY REALLY unreliable, it used to be an area attack ( wich was awesome ) and now its only single target on a min CD ( 45 talented )

 

but again you have to admit that as a tank it really sux to be the only ones that are unable to pull stuff to them beeing MELEE.

[Lazorous]

So this is clearly a Melee vs Range issue. What's the problem exactly when it's common knowledge Range will always have a dps advantage in range?

 

Why not just call an "adjustment" to all Melee classes? Makes more sense than singling two specific classes and builds.

[Halstadt]

I'm not talking about dps. You seem bad at reading.

 

Most PT utility is baseline. Stun, aoe stun, grapple, stealth detect is all baseline.

 

Overall, PTs are missing friendly charge + knockback compared to juggs, and they gain grapple + stealth detect. That's hardly a clear advantage one way or the other, except maybe on huttball, where juggs can bounce all the way to the finish line if the enemy lines up right. Although grapple is pretty wicked in huttball too.

 

Thread title is quite misleading. Then again, if you want to trade stealth detection for being able to jump to a friendly target, I'd be glad to.

[Vlaid]

Dunno why they gave jugs/guards a huge negative while in defensive stance while PT/Vans get only positives :/, I dont want PT/Van nerfed though but rather jug/guard buffed.

 

This is really the crux of it. Everything in Jugg/Guardians is designed to throttle them when tank specced. PT/Vanguards get a lot more freedom.

 

I mean, just the fact that Soresu form makes all your focus/rage builders build less sucks for PVP. You have less access to your resource because you're more likely to get ignores in PVP due to lower damage output+defensively oriented.

[yukirshiro]

OP, no pure tank spec will ever hit for 3k with any ability, let alone 5k.

 

Try to learn to read before responding. Sticky + rail is 3k burst when you time the rail to hit when the sticky explodes. 5k if you crit on both.

 

And PVP PT spec doesn't use 31 points. That would be stupid beyond belief.

 

PT tank spec is typically 21-25/x/x.

[Lazorous]

tbh i tought that the knockback was part of their core class just like the inquisitors

 

Force choke its only 3 secs wich gives you only 1 gcd to attack your target.

 

Force scream its just an attack that provides a 1k shield once every 12 secs, and as a tank some powertechs (dps) have killed me in less than that with elemental damage

 

Force Push is REALLY REALLY unreliable, it used to be an area attack ( wich was awesome ) and now its only single target on a min CD ( 45 talented )

 

but again you have to admit that as a tank it really sux to be the only ones that are unable to pull stuff to them beeing MELEE.

 

Trooper knockback is only for Commando(dps/heal) class, not Vanguard (dps/tank).

[bakedpotter]

Actually, Powertechs don't have higher DPS, they just have more armor penetrating DPS in tank spec then other tanks. Against squishies? I'd actually say that the assassin is superior in DPS in tank spec.

 

 

 

Notice tank spec (as in talents, NOT AC) is what's being discussed.. don't change the subject.

 

Then why is everyone discussing dps spec PTs? you know that PTs can spec dps and still use guard and look like they are tanking right? Tank specs with Tank gear are quite similar but a little different to the other classes tank dps as each one have their own special abilities that determine whether they do more or less dps. Assassins get to stealth out of combat. Jugs get way better CC utility and baseline force jump with much faster CD. Therefore not all tanks should have the same dps capabilities, thats how balance works.

[Halstadt]

tbh i tought that the knockback was part of their core class just like the inquisitors

 

Force choke its only 3 secs wich gives you only 1 gcd to attack your target.

 

Force scream its just an attack that provides a 1k shield once every 12 secs, and as a tank some powertechs (dps) have killed me in less than that with elemental damage

 

Force Push is REALLY REALLY unreliable, it used to be an area attack ( wich was awesome ) and now its only single target on a min CD ( 45 talented )

 

but again you have to admit that as a tank it really sux to be the only ones that are unable to pull stuff to them beeing MELEE.

 

Sure, Bioware decided to go with lore rather than common sense, and trust me, I know how painful melee can be, especially if you get lag (like me).

[yukirshiro]

Thread title is quite misleading.

 

No it isn't. We got sidetracked onto a discussion of utility because someone said "yes powertech dps is better but utility is much worse."

 

Which isn't really true. It's only possibly true on huttball and even there it depends how you play. Jugg is a better carrier, I'll give you that. But PT is excellent at killing their carrier because grapple is practically an i-win button if you use it effectively.

[Kuari]

Then why is everyone discussing dps spec PTs?

 

stopped right here... reading comprehension. Everyone is discussing the DPS of TANK specced PTs.

[Halstadt]

Try to learn to read before responding. Sticky + rail is 3k burst when you time the rail to hit when the sticky explodes. 5k if you crit on both.

 

And PVP PT spec doesn't use 31 points. That would be stupid beyond belief.

 

PT tank spec is typically 21-25/x/x.

 

Which means that you're facing someone who's putting a lot of points into skills they can't use because they involve going into a non-TANK stance.

 

EDIT: also, I have no idea where you are getting 5k from.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Halstadt

[yukirshiro]

This is really the crux of it. Everything in Jugg/Guardians is designed to throttle them when tank specced. PT/Vanguards get a lot more freedom.

 

This is part of the crux of it. PT are not only more flexible and have better sustained dps in tank spec but also have better burst in defensive stance too. Nothing tank specced juggs have really comes close to a good sticky+shock/punch+rail combo for burst.

[Kryptorchid]

stopped right here... reading comprehension. Everyone is discussing the DPS of TANK specced PTs.

 

And I have to bring up "what you see as a 'tank spec' PT is really either a 21/x/x hybrid or straight-up DPS build just using Ion Gas Cylinder."

[lJustAlexl]

Why are we even calling them tank specced? They're going for mostly offensive abilities in the tanking tree...that's not tank specced. They might be using the tree but they avoid all shield and defense based points.

[yukirshiro]

Which means that you're facing someone who's putting a lot of points into skills they can't use because they involve going into a non-TANK stance.

 

Uh...I guess all I can do is repeat "wut?" here?

 

Because the best thing about PT is you never have to leave defensive stance to be effective with a 2X/x/x build.

 

Do you even play a PT or have any idea how the work? Defensive stance on PT/vang is absolutely incredible compared to the awfulness of defensive stance as a jugg.

[Halstadt]

And I have to bring up "what you see as a 'tank spec' PT is really either a 21/x/x hybrid or straight-up DPS build just using Ion Gas Cylinder."

 

Or more likely, a DPS spec and stance that they think is really hard to kill.

[Sutr]

This is part of the crux of it. PT are not only more flexible and have better sustained dps in tank spec but also have better burst in defensive stance too. Nothing tank specced juggs have really comes close to a good sticky+shock/punch+rail combo for burst.

 

thats because shields are worthless in pvp. So they grab things that increase their burst. Really none of its sustained its a quick combo that you can only do every 15 seconds sustained dps only comes from a heavy pyro spec and thats not a tank spec not even close.