Powertech DPS in tank spec is too high compared to other tank specs in pvp

[yukirshiro]

It's a team game dude. If you're setting up burst on a target chances are it's gonna be railable. If not you can always go full monty and do the sticky--->cryo--->rail---DFA thing although that really is an ammo dump.

[yukirshiro]

I'm not sure if you know this, but you need to have ion cylinder active in order to guard.

 

I repeat: wut?

 

Of course you do. If you'er a 21x/x/x spec and not in defensive stance you're doing something wrong.

[Halstadt]

It's a team game dude. If you're setting up burst on a target chances are it's gonna be railable. If not you can always go full monty and do the sticky--->cryo--->rail---DFA thing although that really is an ammo dump.

 

If it's a team game, then I don't really see why you're doing a 1 to 1 comparison.

[yukirshiro]

1. Use this build -- http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#500cRZhZGbRbdrMdGR.1

2. Run in Soresu Form.

3. Be just as tanky as the PTs you ***** about and do better damage!

 

Lol.

 

You obviously have no clue about what soresu form does to dps potential, especially when unimproved.

[Lazorous]

What part of that post refutes my claim of you complaining about a damage combo that uses half a PT/Vanguard's resource pool? I have read this entire thread and you keep trying to compare melee 31-point tanking builds with hybrid builds, and don't realize a Focus/Rage specced Jedi is just as "tanky" and has more burst and mobility compared to the "tank specs" you are talking about.

 

Kryptorchid, Please take some advice from me.

 

Don't take yukishiro too seriously. I've had logical debates with him on a different topic and in all his comments he tends to use his own assumptions as facts. He claims (in another post) that the ability Guard is in direct relation to the entire balance of the game. For example, he claims Guard is the reason that PvP healing is nerfed 30%. Somehow he claims that as fact, but has no evidence to back it up.

 

In short, there is no reasoning with him. He is within is own world, and he claims to know everything there is about this game. If he calls for a nerf, it therefore must be done because he has some magical insights to what is suppose to be. For example, he claims PT Tank spec dps is too high. But there is no clear indication of what formula he's using to establish that claim, other than, "I believe it shouldn't be because of specific circumstances that behoove my argument".

 

His most common comeback is, "You have no idea", and then gives no further examples, because he can't.

 

Just thought you should know what you're going against. A delusional mind, vs your logical one. So please take that into consideration and don't trouble yourself too much on this issue. Cheers.

 

EDIT: In fact, I believe he has me on ignore because he could no longer refute my logic in his previous threads.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Lazorous

[yukirshiro]

If it's a team game, then I don't really see why you're doing a 1 to 1 comparison.

 

Uh...because if you have a tank jugg you arn't getting that burst on a target when you need it?

 

When I play my jugg every single WZ I'll come across several situations where if I had even some modest 30m burst I'd be able to drop a key target.

 

The big difference between the two is as a PT you can be an effective guardbot and not gimp your damage potential completely.

[Kryptorchid]

Lol.

 

You obviously have no clue about what soresu form does to dps potential, especially when unimproved.

 

Soresu Form

Activation: Instant

 

Enters a defensive lightsaber form, reducing all damage taken by 6%, increasing armor rating by 60% and threat generation by 50%. Soresu Form also increases shield chance by 15%. While active, taking damage builds 1 focus, but all Strike abilities generate 1 less focus. This effect cannot occur more than once every 6 seconds.

 

Nowhere in that description does it lower your damage, so your 10K Sweeps will still hit for 10K.

[yukirshiro]

Soresu Form

Activation: Instant

 

Enters a defensive lightsaber form, reducing all damage taken by 6%, increasing armor rating by 60% and threat generation by 50%. Soresu Form also increases shield chance by 15%. While active, taking damage builds 1 focus, but all Strike abilities generate 1 less focus. This effect cannot occur more than once every 6 seconds.

 

Nowhere in that description does it lower your damage, so your 10K Sweeps will still hit for 10K.

 

/facepalm

 

You lose stance damage, 20% AP and more importantly you lose all focus generation capability because you go from 2 focus per auto to 1 per auto.

 

P.S. Sweep build doesn't hit for 10k anymore. More like 6-7k.

 

P.P.S. Edited to reflect your bad sweep build.

Edited January 26, 2012 by yukirshiro

[Kryptorchid]

/facepalm

 

You lose stance damage, 20% AP and more importantly you lose all focus generation capability because you go from 2 focus per auto to 1 per auto.

 

P.S. Sweep build doesn't hit for 10k anymore. More like 6-7k.

 

P.P.S. Edited to reflect your bad sweep build.

 

Ok, so in Soresu Form, your Sweeps will hit for 4.5k-6k depending on the target. Point still remains the same.

 

I don't know why I am helping you, because it is clear you are just s self-loathing whiner, that would rather post on the forums to blow off steam than get better at the game, but here is a "more tanky" build with good damage as well: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#500crGozZhRrMrhdzMM.1

Edited January 26, 2012 by Kryptorchid

[yukirshiro]

That's a terrible build too.

[Sanzibal]

He is making a point though. Its a point he hasn't realized he made but he did make it. Bcause shields are so worthless in pvp there is no incentive for a pt to be anything other than hybrid specced you lose very little survivability but dps specifically burst does increase to a good level. you can keep ion cyclandir up because you just need to get the dot on it and you can use railshot that everyone specs for because once again SHIELDS ARE USELESS IN PVP so no one goes a pure tank spec.

 

QFT. I'm just going full pyro build and don't bother with Ion at all cause I like the snare. Oh and the opposite side of this is true too. Because most of my attacks used are elemental, my attacks completely ignore the Juggs armor. I played a Guardian to 25 and now have a PT at 29. The OP, while an idiot, does have a point. I feel alot stronger than my Guardian and I have since level 10 or so.

[Ryotknife]

I would prefer they buff the damage potential of other tank specs instead of nerfing PT, but there's something seriously wrong with the disparity.

 

Part of it is the fact that a tank spec PT can do decent ranged damage where the other tank classes really need to be in melee range. But part of it just has to do with the trees and stances. A jugg for example gimps damage potential by using defensive stance because of reduced rage generation, and the jugg tank tree has very little in terms of significant dps. PT on the other hand gets a hugely buffed shockstrike and pull + root that makes it easy to bring targets to you and therefore stay within guard range while still doing very good dps.

 

The upshot is that a powertech can play guardbot without losing much effectiveness, but the other tanks really become a one trick pony.

 

TL:DR: Tank spec PT can still dps effectively, the other tanks can't. This makes playing a PT tank much more viable in pvp than any other.

 

.....

 

as a hybrid dps/tank spec (carolina parakeet) , powertechs do some of the LEAST amount of damage in the game, bar none. when i was 49, every single class could and would do more damage with their abilities than i could do with my most powerful one (rail shot). post nerf ops would HIT harder than i could CRIT. the only time a PT can do even slightly comparable damage is when 4-5 people group up and we aoe the hell out of them, which we can do pretty well. other than that, nearly every WZ has PT at the bottom of the damage charts.

 

granted, most of those pts are either shieldtech or carolina parakeet as well. that said you dont need dps to pvp effectively in huttball, which will pop 90% of the time.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Ryotknife

[yukirshiro]

You're not very good at playing a PT if you end up bottom of damage.

[Ryotknife]

You're not very good at playing a PT if you end up bottom of damage.

 

which is why im often voted as mvp as i usually have the highest objective score and saving healers....

 

now shoo little troll.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Ryotknife

[Syrellaris]

Lv 43, full shield tech for pve tanking. Mostly end up top 3 in PvP. Knowing your abilities is key. Yeah we do more damage then our Sith/ Jedi counter parts but we sacrifice the lonlivity of our skills for it. For example as they can keep wailing I need to balance my skills or I overheat quickly, making me pretty much worthless.

 

So my two most used abilities are Heat blast and Vent heat. Which are both on a decent cooldown. I also Have hardly No CC abilities other then Electro dart and Grapple. Yes, I am aware I could spec shield for some slows and a different pvp skill, but that would make me kind of useless in pve.

 

So no, Power tech Tanks are fine.

[Daecollo]

Get to 50.

[yukirshiro]

Lv 43, full shield tech for pve tanking. Mostly end up top 3 in PvP. Knowing your abilities is key. Yeah we do more damage then our Sith/ Jedi counter parts but we sacrifice the lonlivity of our skills for it. For example as they can keep wailing I need to balance my skills or I overheat quickly, making me pretty much worthless.

 

Something doesn't match up there. If you're ending up at the top of thd dps charts it isn't because you can't keep pumping out damage.

 

Also, juggs in tank spec have worse resource generation than you do. Most of those hits are auto attacks.

 

edit: Also, you admit you're pve tank spec which is huge /fail for pvp.

Edited January 26, 2012 by yukirshiro

[Sanzibal]

.....

 

as a hybrid dps/tank spec (carolina parakeet) , powertechs do some of the LEAST amount of damage in the game, bar none. when i was 49, every single class could and would do more damage with their abilities than i could do with my most powerful one (rail shot). post nerf ops would HIT harder than i could CRIT. the only time a PT can do even slightly comparable damage is when 4-5 people group up and we aoe the hell out of them, which we can do pretty well. other than that, nearly every WZ has PT at the bottom of the damage charts.

 

granted, most of those pts are either shieldtech or carolina parakeet as well.

 

 

Well I'm not sure about 49 but at 29 with a full pyro build its odd for me to be under the top 3 in a WZ and I come in top in more than a few. And no it's not AOE either. I occasionally drop a Death From Above when the repubs conveniently gather up in a small circle, but it's not very often they comply. I don't do great on medals though because I'm not speced to guard anybody and I'm not quite tanky enough to do it anyway.

[GothicSaint]

Dunno why they gave jugs/guards a huge negative while in defensive stance while PT/Vans get only positives :/, I dont want PT/Van nerfed though but rather jug/guard buffed.

 

Here Here Sir!!

 

An ale for this lad

[yukirshiro]

Well I'm not sure about 49 but at 29 with a full pyro build its odd for me to be under the top 3 in a WZ and I come in top in more than a few. And no it's not AOE either. I occasionally drop a Death From Above when the repubs conveniently gather up in a small circle, but it's not very often they comply. I don't do great on medals though because I'm not speced to guard anybody and I'm not quite tanky enough to do it anyway.

 

Just put up guard once at some point in the game where it doesn't matter. You can easily get the 2k and 5k medals in about 5 seconds flat. It's def worth the 5 seconds of effort for another 24 commendations.

Edited January 26, 2012 by yukirshiro

[Sanzibal]

Just put up guard once at some point in the game where it doesn't matter. You can easily get the 2k and 5k medals in about 5 seconds flat. It's def worth the 5 seconds of effort for another 24 commendations.

 

Oh good idea!

[GothicSaint]

You're not very good at playing a PT if you end up bottom of damage.

 

Here Here Sir !

 

Give this lad an Ale

[Ryotknife]

Well I'm not sure about 49 but at 29 with a full pyro build its odd for me to be under the top 3 in a WZ and I come in top in more than a few. And no it's not AOE either. I occasionally drop a Death From Above when the repubs conveniently gather up in a small circle, but it's not very often they comply. I don't do great on medals though because I'm not speced to guard anybody and I'm not quite tanky enough to do it anyway.

 

in ald and voidstar they always gather, unless you have the misfortune of facing a team full of sorcs/mercs.

[Syrellaris]

Something doesn't match up there. If you're ending up at the top of thd dps charts it isn't because you can't keep pumping out damage.

 

Also, juggs in tank spec have worse resource generation than you do. Most of those hits are auto attacks.

 

edit: Also, you admit you're pve tank spec which is huge /fail for pvp.

 

If it is such a huge fail, then how come I always end up in the top 3. Clearly I am doing something right.

 

Also as a Tank your are not a damage dealer. At most i get around 75-100K Damage done. 1 medal.

 

I get a minimum of 2-3 Defender medals. 1k, 3k and 10k.

 

I get Protection medals like paladin. 10k Damage prevented on an ally without dying.

 

You get atleast 1 other medal for 1 Killing blow. (I can solo nearly every class 1-1 other then smugglers and grav round troopers =/)

 

Then there is 1 more medal for 10 Kills.

 

Thats 6 medals. add 1 more for the lower rank protection medal. Thats 7 medals.

 

If your lucky, add 25 kills medal. Thats 8 Medals.

 

8 medals is good for a tank.

 

So yeah...PvE tank!

[zeroburrito]

Shadow weapon damage is reduced by 5% in their tank stance too, and Force Breach turns into a crappy move you wouldn't even use in most of PvE (and totally worthless in PvP). LOL at AoE that does 400 damage on 15sec cooldown.

 

the strongest assassins i've seen use tank stance in dps spec.

 

the 5% loss to BONUS damage is completely negligible.

Edited January 27, 2012 by zeroburrito