juggernaut threat

[lodenplzwate]

is it me or does juggernaut threat just suck?

[Athux]

It does suck but you get used to it. Threat generation in this game overall sucks

[Cassp]

It does suck but you get used to it. Threat generation in this game overall sucks

 

Unless you play assassin or powertech.

[Konow]

Looking at some of the tank gear it looks like they thought surge and crit was something tanks were gonna get into. That may also be one of the reasons nothing really hits like a truck unless it's enraged. Inticing us to drop some defensive stats for offensive ones. Who knows

 

As it seems every tank has **** threat (atleast the ones I've encountered), and all dps'ers has the opposite. But all dps'ers have threat dump abilities, which most don't even know they have, or never use. In which case I allways get "lag" every time I am suposed to taunt (on trash that is), so they die. With repair costs being as high as they are I think it'll be a lesson well learnt.

 

Seing as all of our threat modified abilities has 12/15/60 sec cd's, there's nothing more to do. I find myself rotating guard around, and the 2 taunts between them help abit, apart from when you actually need a taunt they're both on cd. Reckon it will be adjusted at some point, but not counting on it happening anytime soon.

[Pe-Te]

Short answer: YES.

 

AOE threat is just plain terrible, single is too low aswell. Im tanking nightmare/hardmode runs and threat is pretty much the only problem ingame atm. Its not the gear either, im at 8/14 rakata, mostly 58 mods/enchants on the missing pieces.

 

1min CD on our only high threat hit is just beyond stupid. Only thing i wonder if they want us to stack accuracy BEYOND 10%, does that help at all on bosses ? Did the math and whole rakata set has about 10.7% accuracy, that would suggest its there to free 3 talentpoints to better utility skills OR they want us to go 10%++. Havent had time to test out 10%+.

 

Doesnt matter if we are easy to keep up, if we cant keep aggro and others die/have to afk and not dps because of that. Its frustrating to the tank aswell, because of broken class you cant perform per your own skill and gear level.

[footupYazz]

i think most peeps do not understand tanking....your main goal as tank is to reduce or intervine dammage to your group..not only getting aggro....so you use all abillity's that stops dammage in any way and meanwhile use your taunt abillity for groups and solo pull.

 

I got no prob in getting aggro or making sure the add/s doesn't cause a lot of dps to my group. Tanking is an active playing style (same for healing btw) you have 2 see what adds are doing or what is happening to your group so you Can taunt or intervine 2 reduce dammage 2 your group. THAT IS ALL!!! SO START PRACTICING:D

 

in other words:

 

YOU GOT SKILL OR YA DON'T:D (if ya don't, i advise stick to dps or healing)

 

BTW: don't take this message personal, it's just how i see t...cause i ain't got problems with tanking in swtor...i hope they don't make it eassier like in wow)

[Kelrift_Deago]

The problem is being over whelmed buy more then 5 or more NPC's with Crowd Controls ..

With one (Short range) Aoe and one Taunt I find that I spend a lot of time Waiting on CD's and making sure i didnt blow it too soon then actually seeing whats going on ..

Some areas are Manageable while other are tough to control.

It could be player Skill and/or skill management .. but either way its hard to gain/hold aggro with High DPS classes in group.

 

Backhand A threat generator ?? LOL Yha right

 

Maybe instead use a shielding or form/stance as a threat generator based off of incoming damage ... I mean it would make since the more some one hit me the more pissed off they become because i havent died ..

[Spatter]

i think most peeps do not understand tanking....your main goal as tank is to reduce or intervine dammage to your group..not only getting aggro....so you use all abillity's that stops dammage in any way and meanwhile use your taunt abillity for groups and solo pull.

 

I got no prob in getting aggro or making sure the add/s doesn't cause a lot of dps to my group. Tanking is an active playing style (same for healing btw) you have 2 see what adds are doing or what is happening to your group so you Can taunt or intervine 2 reduce dammage 2 your group. THAT IS ALL!!! SO START PRACTICING:D

 

in other words:

 

YOU GOT SKILL OR YA DON'T:D (if ya don't, i advise stick to dps or healing)

 

BTW: don't take this message personal, it's just how i see t...cause i ain't got problems with tanking in swtor...i hope they don't make it eassier like in wow)

 

I respect your opinion, but disagree. Although it does come down to skill/awareness for the most part, when you're in a raid full of people that can do very very heavy DPS, there is nothing that you can do to hold threat sometimes.

 

I've MT'ed 8-man/16-man EV/KP and cleared both through Nightmare. For the most part, single target tanking is not an issue, except at the beginning of a fight. We really don't have much in the way of spike/burst threat. Once you pull, your rotation needs to be perfect or you'll lose threat. I actually find that somewhat rewarding as a tank because your rotation is very unforgiving. Missing a Retaliation or not being aware of when Backhand comes off cooldown and rotating it in can sometimes mean you lose threat and DPS pulls.

 

My biggest complaint though is our aoe-tanking (or lack thereof). Especially compared to the other two tanking classes. Powertechs can DfA once, minimize the game and browse the internet for the rest of the trash pull. Sorcerers have an even better aoe mechanic with deathfield/lacerate, so they get to lolcatsontheinternet, too. Juggernauts get a Smash ability which is on a 12 second cooldown (with talents), and a sweeping strikes ability that is spammable, but does a whopping 500-800 damage and has no threat bonus besides from the overall threat bonus Soresu form provides. So in a nutshell when I'm aoe-tanking I work very similar to the Powertech. I pull, Smash, sweeping strikes until I'm out of focus, Enrage myself, do it again, aoe-taunt and then minimize to browse the internet because at that point I would only be able to get and keep one mob on me.

 

I think the major problem is that most of us are going into this game from WoW and assume this game is as easy to tank as WoW was post-BC, and DPS assumes they can just go balls deep from the beginning. Is it possible? Yeah. But until BW figures out how they're going to increase threat generation for Juggernauts, a lot of people are going to lose threat and get blamed for it. Nothing is more frustrating than properly rotating your attacks and still losing threat because the threat mechanics can't keep up with the damage mechanics.

 

And I just want to echo what was posted already that our higher threat generation ability should NOT be on a 1-minute cooldown. I'd propose a 15-second MAX cooldown.

 

tldr; Juggernaut single target tanking = fine, aoe tanking = lolwut? / Powertech and Sorcerer single target tanking = fine, aoe tanking = lolcatsoninternet

[Spatter]

Backhand A threat generator ?? LOL Yha right

 

Maybe instead use a shielding or form/stance as a threat generator based off of incoming damage ... I mean it would make since the more some one hit me the more pissed off they become because i havent died ..

 

Not sure if serious... Backhand is our best single target threat generating ability...

 

And are you suggesting we stance dance from Soresu form to some other form when we're first generating threat? I'll hold my comment if/when you reply. I may be reading it wrong.

[Pe-Te]

Well in 4 man heroic instances the damage is so low that it REALLY doesnt matter if you loosee aggro most of the time, groupmates can take the damage and healers can heal it. Its bit different when you are dealing with nightmare ops boss that will flat out ONESHOT example your melee dps or ops trash packs that have 1 champion, 4 elites and 2 strong mobs.

 

Bosses usually do cleave, aoe or you have to position the boss to various spots with a timer so intercede around the fight area pulling the boss to raid group REALLY isnt a option. Or if you leve the boss melee range you will loose aggro. But hey, good luck with that...

 

What i would like to see if FIRST ( like next patch ) bioware to change GUARD RANGE to TRIPLE what it is now and give that targets lowered -25% threat TO the tank. That would solve everything. Lowering 1 targets threat just doesnt cut it when theres 5 trigger happy dps in the ops and with so low guard range if you put that on ranged DPS, then he has to be in allmost melee range thus not getting aggro at 130% but at 110%.

 

Tanks arent supposed to be damage dealers, but either they give us more aggro in some form or buff the damage we do.

[Pe-Te]

I've MT'ed 8-man/16-man EV/KP and cleared both through Nightmare. For the most part, single target tanking is not an issue, except at the beginning of a fight. We really don't have much in the way of spike/burst threat. Once you pull, your rotation needs to be perfect or you'll lose threat. I actually find that somewhat rewarding as a tank because your rotation is very unforgiving. Missing a Retaliation or not being aware of when Backhand comes off cooldown and rotating it in can sometimes mean you lose threat and DPS pulls.

 

And I just want to echo what was posted already that our higher threat generation ability should NOT be on a 1-minute cooldown. I'd propose a 15-second MAX cooldown.

 

Yep thats what im seeing too, done EV 8man nightmare and KP on hardmode ( we havent tried it yet on nightmare ). Trash tanking is horrible, start of boss fights are pain in the *** with bit trigger happy DPS ( mostly ranged because thats the way game is setup ).

 

They could try Smash ( in soresu form ) a high threat ability, it would help on bossfights too as you use it to keep up your -5% miss chance debuff anyways. Either double backhand damage for start burst or change the cd to 10-15secs. And then theres the option just put Retaliation as a high threat ability. Atleast assasins have 6 second cd high threat skill, why not us too ?

[lodenplzwate]

i was thinking maybe they can add a dot to smash and possibly add a cleave like effect to all the attacks which would have us hitting most of the mobs all the time. atleast im not the only one that feel like juggernauts are gimpped in aoe threat, heck just gimpped in threat in general lol. single target im ok, as long as i rotate taunt in the mix everytime its off cooldown

[Spatter]

i was thinking maybe they can add a dot to smash and possibly add a cleave like effect to all the attacks which would have us hitting most of the mobs all the time. atleast im not the only one that feel like juggernauts are gimpped in aoe threat, heck just gimpped in threat in general lol. single target im ok, as long as i rotate taunt in the mix everytime its off cooldown

 

DoTs would certainly help, I think they just need to buff overall threat generation with attacks (via Soresu form buff).

 

Also just a piece of advice - take it or leave it: rotating Taunt won't help your threat if you're at the top of the threat tables already. Taunt is just a "go to the front of the class" mechanic, where you'll immediately move to the top of the threat order if you're not. So use it only when the mob breaks off of you and heads to another target.

 

Oh and that reminds me: they really need to implement target of target windows in this game. For most bosses, there's at least a 1-2 second delay between someone else pulling threat and the target actually moving/attacking that person. Having a target of target window means we can immediately see when the boss has switched and taunt faster. At this point, we don't know if the boss is going after that person until after it's already heading in that direction, and that can screw up positioning royally (especially when fighting Karagga).

[Columns]

Make crushing blow/smash have a higher threat multiplier in soresu form. Problem solved.

[DarthMondo]

Threat generation is horrible/broken for Juggernauts imo.The only way i can get constant threat in operations etc is to spam my taunts as soon as they are off cooldown.If i don't do this my threat is terrible.

Trying to tank/pull multiple mobs is also a nightmare and more often than not i feel like a tennis ball running from one person to another as i try to get over agro'd mobs

 

Please fix/improve Bioware.

[crypticedge]

Fixing Jug threat is actually really easy. Change the Sorsu threat bonus from 60% to 100%.

 

There you are. Fixed with no pvp ramifications.

[Goade]

Fixing Jug threat is actually really easy. Change the Sorsu threat bonus from 60% to 100%.

 

There you are. Fixed with no pvp ramifications.

 

^ This. the majority of the other responses will effect pvp too much. Not that I wouldn't mind a boost there too .

[DarthTaint]

The class is fine.

 

I have absolutely 0 issues holding threat in either HM, both have been cleared and both me and my cotank are Juggs.

 

I think most of you are just bad to be honest.

[DarthMondo]

The class is fine.

 

I have absolutely 0 issues holding threat in either HM, both have been cleared and both me and my cotank are Juggs.

 

I think most of you are just bad to be honest.

 

Well please share your secrets with the rest of us so we are not bad anymore....

[RG_jhanlec]

I respect your opinion, but disagree. Although it does come down to skill/awareness for the most part, when you're in a raid full of people that can do very very heavy DPS, there is nothing that you can do to hold threat sometimes.

 

I've MT'ed 8-man/16-man EV/KP and cleared both through Nightmare. For the most part, single target tanking is not an issue, except at the beginning of a fight. We really don't have much in the way of spike/burst threat. Once you pull, your rotation needs to be perfect or you'll lose threat. I actually find that somewhat rewarding as a tank because your rotation is very unforgiving. Missing a Retaliation or not being aware of when Backhand comes off cooldown and rotating it in can sometimes mean you lose threat and DPS pulls.

 

My biggest complaint though is our aoe-tanking (or lack thereof). Especially compared to the other two tanking classes.

 

This is pretty spot on. I feel for single target barring any weird issues, its pretty easy to hold agro and do what is needed. AoE is troublesome, but I sometimes think it was meant to be since the Tier 2 talent to reduce rage cost of Chilling Scream is there. Basically they assume you lose agro, but you can slow them long enough for DPS to down adds....

 

What i would like to see if FIRST ( like next patch ) bioware to change GUARD RANGE to TRIPLE what it is now and give that targets lowered -25% threat TO the tank.

 

Range increase I agree with, threat change may be overdoing it. I dont want to become a WoW tank where I just hit one AoE and the rest of the fight is golden. Although I often feel like I am herding cats; overall its nice that its not easy mode to tank. Challenge can be nice!

[DarthTaint]

Well please share your secrets with the rest of us so we are not bad anymore....

 

I mean, I don't really know what to tell you. I do a pretty standard rotation. Sunder/Smash/Scream/Choke/Backhand/Enrage/Retaliation/Crushing Blow all pretty much on cooldown. Taunt as needed (definitely not needed on cooldown). Guard your highest DPS. Its really not complicated.

 

If you're using the Vengeance spec, stop. It's bad.

[Pumraa]

I tank HM's in rage spec with dps gear. I haven't had any problems with threat since I started doing it.

 

I am in almost full champion gear however and that does make a big difference. I am actually thinking of doing the 14/27 or 25/16 spec though for a while and see how that goes.

 

My healers never complain about healing me either... Proper use of cooldowns/etc... and just the way the game was made ezmode so far HM's are way too easy.

[NomadTidian]

The class is fine.

 

I have absolutely 0 issues holding threat in either HM, both have been cleared and both me and my cotank are Juggs.

 

I think most of you are just bad to be honest.

 

I think you're just bad...or making stuff up. Pics or it didn't happen.

 

Okay, my opinion? Single-to-double target threat is fine. Yeah, a good DPS will rip aggro from you, but you taunt the target and you keep him for 15-20 seconds before aggro is ripped again.

 

The problem I have is AoE threat. This class was not meant to keep AoE threat...at all. Seems like half the time I'm taunting one target, choking a second one that's attacking the healer, running over and backhanding a third, then turning around to smack the other, each mob losing aggro as soon as I deselect them and move to another target. Not to mention the lack of ranged abilities, it's hard to move from target to target to even hit them to attempt to get single target threat back up. I just spam AoE taunt whenever I can (granted, I don't spam it for a group of normals).

 

Overall, multi-target threat is broken for Juggs, it's that simple. It's not player skill. I may not be the best tank in the world, but I know what I'm doing.

 

Need more AoE abilities. Grenades on a 5 minute linked cool down is not enough with Smash. It just really isn't.

[JediKabuto]

Unless they want to mess around with adding 'bonus threat' everywhere they will have to buff the stance modifier and the cleave attack in some way.

 

And of course fixing the periphery like not being able to tell when spells are fully off cool down or animations locking you out of being able to input anything will also help.

Edited January 27, 2012 by JediKabuto

[Teioh_White]

Same issue here, I can hold two targets no issue, really. It's trying to grab a pack of adds and keep them in an AoE without devouring the rest of the group that's an issue. Single target threat is easy, as just having taunts is enough for that. Follow your rotation on a single mob with taunting on CD, espeically if talented, and a mob will never get off you.

 

Unless it has an aggro drop mechanic, in which case I normally make sure one taunt is up to re aquire the target.