Sniper is hands down the worst class in SWTOR(PvP)

[Monkeybusiness]

I have a level 50 mercenary tracer spam spec adn a sniper in the low 30s mm spec

 

From my experience my mercenary has less survivability than my sniper. Heavy armour and jet boost vs cover pulse, leg shot, flashbang, damage reduction in cover through talents, distraction.

 

As for damage. Both seem to have a similar amount of burst potential. Ambush+followthrough ~ tracer+ buffed heatseeker missile although mercenary pyrotechs will have higher burst than snipers (but pyrotech doesn't synergise as well with mercenaries so i don't like the trade off just to have a higher burst)

 

Snipers can switch targets readily without having to nerf their burst mercenary will have a burst nerf for switching targets. Mercenaries seem to be able to unload more single target damage in a short period tracer spam > snipe spam and heatseeker missile = 1.5s ambush = 2.5s heatseeker missile ~ ambush (the crits r similar however ambush hits harder)

 

Mercenaries are more mobile than snipers which can be huge in pvp

 

Conclusion: Mercenaries have similar damage to snipers with the main difference being that mercenaries trade survivability for better mobility.

 

In low lvl pvp yes

 

At lvl 50 no, mercs can pretty much soak the burst, while spamming 3.5k crits with grave round tracer missile.

[caveslug]

I have a level 50 mercenary tracer spam spec adn a sniper in the low 30s mm spec

 

From my experience my mercenary has less survivability than my sniper. Heavy armour and jet boost vs cover pulse, leg shot, flashbang, damage reduction in cover through talents, distraction.

 

As for damage. Both seem to have a similar amount of burst potential. Ambush+followthrough ~ tracer+ buffed heatseeker missile although mercenary pyrotechs will have higher burst than snipers (but pyrotech doesn't synergise as well with mercenaries so i don't like the trade off just to have a higher burst)

 

Snipers can switch targets readily without having to nerf their burst mercenary will have a burst nerf for switching targets. Mercenaries seem to be able to unload more single target damage in a short period tracer spam > snipe spam and heatseeker missile = 1.5s ambush = 2.5s heatseeker missile ~ ambush (the crits r similar however ambush hits harder)

 

Mercenaries are more mobile than snipers which can be huge in pvp

 

Conclusion: Mercenaries have similar damage to snipers with the main difference being that mercenaries trade survivability for better mobility.

 

 

You don't even have to hit level 50 pvp to see the future, just find a 40+ BH/warrior to see the future. They are bad enough as is, have fun trying to take one down if they are a tank.

 

To be fair, it does depend on what spec you are, as leth and its dot's ignore there armor/def

Edited February 27, 2012 by caveslug

[dcgregorya]

1. Saber Ward

2. Force Choke

3. Force Push -> Force Charge

4. Line of sight

 

These are all ways that a Sith Warrior can completely neuter a Sniper/Gunslinger's damage output. Choke/Push won't work against a player who knows when to use Entrench, but Ward and abusing LoS still royally screw any marksman.

 

This.

 

I'm definitely the best gunslinger on my server (it's a tiny server so I'm not bragging, just not a lot of snipers/GS), I've played one for hundreds of hours and I roll a lot of people. But that being said, it's mostly because they are bad and/or don't understand how messed up the GS/sniper classes are. When I go against a sniper/GS, either on my GS main or on my alts I roll them like they're not even there. Series of shots? LoS. Ambush? LoS or knockback. Just make them move, breaks entrench. Accuracy debuffs destroy them. Shields destroy them. Roots destroy them. Lethality spec? Interrupt cull, make them burn their energy. Knock them back when they try it again.

 

Once people L2P against snipers and GS the few advantages I have won't even be there. It'll basically be what it is, a squishy broken class reserved for operations and PVE content.

Edited February 27, 2012 by dcgregorya

[Arylia]

If you suck in 50 PvP, it's because you don't have the appropriate gear. I was not that good in PvP until I got my champion and centurion gear.

 

get some gear

[caveslug]

This.

 

I'm definitely the best gunslinger on my server (it's a tiny server so I'm not bragging, just not a lot of snipers/GS), I've played one for hundreds of hours and I roll a lot of people. But that being said, it's mostly because they are bad and/or don't understand how messed up the GS/sniper classes are. When I go against a sniper/GS, either on my GS main or on my alts I roll them like they're not even there. Series of shots? LoS. Ambush? LoS or knockback. Just make them move, breaks entrench. Accuracy debuffs destroy them. Shields destroy them. Roots destroy them. Lethality spec? Interrupt cull, make them burn their energy. Knock them back when they try it again.

 

Once people L2P against snipers and GS the few advantages I have won't even be there. It'll basically be what it is, a squishy broken class reserved for operations and PVE content.

 

Well said, I still like my sniper. But when I see one in pvp all I really see is a free kill most of the time. After people know how to handle them they are a joke, and more and more people are beginning to learn. I have never seen a sniper/gunslinger and been OMG I'm going to die, just find one of the countless LOS objects.

 

I will admit 1-49 pvp is a blast with them, more fun then any other class I have played. But then again a lot of that is because people leveling up are still learning the game, or are casual pvpers.

 

There is a good reason why there are a ton of mercs/commandos and sorc/sages running around, and not snipers/gunslingers.

[michaelra]

I would routinely get 40-50 kills as a sniper in 10-49, but when I first hit 50 I got destroyed for a while - until I worked to acquire better gear, and changed some of my lazy habits acquired from days of ganking lvl 13 Sith Sorcerers who don't even have enough talent points to call themselves a particular "spec" yet.

 

THIS ^

 

People said Snipers sux, even when I said they are not. They said, wait til you are level 50. So when I got to level 50, I suddenly realized what they meant. I started to hate my Sniper on PvP. Then I thought, this must be because I'm way out-geared

 

So I kept playing til I gained a few Columni gears and slowly getting back to the pace like when I was level 10-49

[xdvesper]

post a video of a sniper owning in PvP post 1.1 or I would even take a screenshot of the post game stats. If you can do this I will admit I was wrong. I would love to do this however, i have look over the internet for the last two hours and there is nothing for snipers.

 

http://i42.tinypic.com/23rwit.jpg

 

610k damage done.

 

Post surge nerf, not yet rank 60, mostly champion gear, solo queued, faced a republic premade. I enjoy a pretty good winrate in PVP solo queueing, on the weekend over about 30 games I won about 80% of them.

 

Voidstar numbers are typically 500k for me regardless of win or loss. It is disappointing that I score 500k while the next highest dps can someones only make 200k on voidstar... but that's how the game works.

 

Playing a sniper isn't about the damage though. Many people will tell you that.

 

It's about hanging around near the defenders gate when it opens up so you can Flashbang 3-4 enemies at once as they come out (what other class has a ranged AOE 8 second CC that is instant cast???)

 

It's about how many melee you can legshot out of combat and delay their damage by 5 seconds.

 

It's about keeping distract on cooldown always (over the course of some games I probably interrupt about 10 grav rounds and 5 telekinesis and 5 heals). You have to watch the entire battlefield, interrupt off-targets, you don't tunnel vision, you use every single skill you have.

 

I'm pretty happy when people reroll away from snipers, because getting rid of bad snipers is always a good thing.

Edited February 28, 2012 by xdvesper

[ALEXANDRU-]

http://i40.tinypic.com/dr8qch.jpg

[CTifer]

Crap. I was pleased with the highest DPS output of any class I've played, and I assumed it wouldn't vanish with 1 lvl change.

 

It does for everyone as soon as they hit 50 because they start playing geared players. This isn't a sniper phenomenon.

[Prof-Chaos]

After playing a Vanguard and Sorcerer I decided to roll a Sniper for agent class-story.

 

My impression so far is that everything a Sniper can do in PVP, a Sorcerer can do better; including DPS because of LoS. The only thing Snipers got going for them is that tanks can't jump to them when they are in cover.

 

I like playing my Sniper though. It's a challenge and you have to constantly be reading the battlefield and planning.

[Sagaboy]

After leveling a Commando to 50 and V rank 70+ I decided to roll a sniper (what I wanted to be at release but guild went repub and gunslingers leave me questioning my manhood...but I digress).

 

So far I've found them to be awesome bordering on OP'ed in PvP. So many tools...SOOOOOOO many. And my goodness the interrupt. The low cooldown immob. Melee CC - ranged AoE CC.

 

Sniper are no more stationary than a gunnery commando only they have the added bonus of having increased defense, regen, and CC protection. I fair better on my 30'ish sniper in 1v1 than I do on my commando any day of the week. A sniper feels like true burst ranged dps, as opposed to a commando which relies on one skill to build debuffs to unleash it's barrage (a skill which can be EASILY interrupted I might add).

 

I've seen people talk about snipers being useless in huttball. I'd have to say that is not true. I feel they are much more useful than a commando if only because of 1) the amount of CC availble and 2) the low cooldowns on those CCs relative to commandos (varies with spec). I have yet to try their DoT spec but I believe it will be similar to Assault spec'ed commandos.

 

I will say that sniper requires more thought and has a few limitations as you can't put cover everywhere. But all of this you can plan around and easily compensate for. I'm not 50 and probably won't be for a while as all I do is the class quest + PVP. But this class feels down right deadly.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Sagaboy

[Crankyhobo]

.

 

I am glad you're having fun, but your opinion is meaningless until u get to 50 and play for a few hundred thousand valor. Then you might have something to contribute. You're rank 70+ you should know that nothing you do matters pre-50, and balance is completely jacked, the only dev thought given is to degree of pve difficulty, which is set to easy on all classes.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Crankyhobo

[Kryptofreak]

I love my sniper, the other classes I have played a bit(sorc+mercenary) are so lame imo. I mean spamming lightning/missiles (I know its not the whole truth:p)? as a lethal hybrid sniper I have some options: if I wanna stick to the team and dot everyone and be defensive and just do massive overall damage from that, or if I wanna burst someone down, using C-dart/nade I/E-probes and the just cull ftw

 

What I also experience is the lack of skills to counter a good sniper, how many times haven't you popped entrench and still recieved stun-attempts from an operative ? Everyone gets lots of experience VS sorcs e.tc, but not as much vs snipers.

[ShakesMcQueen]

After playing a Vanguard and Sorcerer I decided to roll a Sniper for agent class-story.

 

My impression so far is that everything a Sniper can do in PVP, a Sorcerer can do better; including DPS because of LoS. The only thing Snipers got going for them is that tanks can't jump to them when they are in cover.

 

I like playing my Sniper though. It's a challenge and you have to constantly be reading the battlefield and planning.

 

LoS can be a challenge in a direct 1v1 fight, but I find it's fine if you're hiding away off to the side, or up above a fight. They eventually notice you're there, but then I just move my position and do it again.

 

Snipers work best as background damage that enemy players aren't directly reacting to. I spend most of my time helping other players DPS down their targets from a distance.

[CTifer]

I am glad you're having fun, but your opinion is meaningless until u get to 50

 

So basically, you're saying the OP is speaking nonsense since he determined we're the worst before lvl 31.

[JeramieCrowe]

I love threads like this. It just proves that the class design does, indeed, cater to play style. Having a hard time with Sniper? Try a class that fits your play style more.

[poulpatine]

Sagaboy If you're a skilled played you feel too limited in your gp possibilities playing a commando, having a sniper must feel refreshing

 

Plus at lvl50 you can spec leth/eng, wich is borderline op, does not mainly require cover and makes los not a problem. Can be as bursty if not more than MM (downside being dispells and target switching).

 

For the others, los is an issue only if you spec MM AND try to do solokills out of the open. Should not happen.

[Wrathoran]

i dont think sniper sucks but they could use some love indeed.

 

they are my favorite prey as a jedi/vanguard/ops. You force push them out of cover and leap at them. They are quite squishy and make a nice sound when they die.

 

Else then that, if i dont watch my ***, they can drain my health really quickly. In fact, i watch more for snipers around on the ledge that i watch for regular people walking around. Like i said, left alone they can **** people up in no time but when you are on them, they are dead. Since i got the anti push talent in vigi, its even more funny.

 

edit : perhaps by giving them a Force Camo ala Sentinel/marauder to disapear for only 4-5 sec with a talent that would increase their speed by 40%. So when an anti push melee fall on them, they wouldnt be screwed.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Wrathoran

[michaelra]

i dont think sniper sucks but they could use some love indeed.

they are my favorite prey as a jedi/vanguard/ops. You force push them out of cover and leap at them. They are quite squishy and make a nice sound when they die.

 

Must have been a bad sniper you were fighting against A good sniper will be in a cover so you can't force leap into him/her.

When you are approaching close, he/she should activate an ability called "Entrench" so you cannot knock him/her out of the cover

 

If all else fails, I normally start stunning with 3 abilities and running away to find help

[Sagaboy]

I am glad you're having fun, but your opinion is meaningless until u get to 50 and play for a few hundred thousand valor. Then you might have something to contribute. You're rank 70+ you should know that nothing you do matters pre-50, and balance is completely jacked, the only dev thought given is to degree of pve difficulty, which is set to easy on all classes.

 

Do you see the paradox in your own response? I began by saying that I have a V rank 70+ commando. You then say that having played to 70+ I should know that everything until 50 is meaningless. You're telling someone who has actually done the pvp'ing what they should think...about...PvP? Perhaps I don't share that belief? The only thing that changes at 50+ is expertise - those that do and don't have it. The dynamics of combat remain very much the same.

 

What I have noticed, even in the commando community is people are very quick to point out the weakness they feel a class has as it relates to them relative to class design. Have you ever considered that while the class may have its faults the players themselves may also not be up to par?

 

I'm pretty sure that at 50 I'll still have flashbang, leg clip, entrench, debilitate, etc. So not much will change at 50 as having pvp'ed on a comm since launch; I'm rather familiar with the strengths and weaknesses of various classes. It's not as if you ding 50 and you unlock completely new talent trees. Damage mitigation and damage potential are the only variables that really change.

[finansjapp]

After playing a Vanguard and Sorcerer I decided to roll a Sniper for agent class-story.

 

My impression so far is that everything a Sniper can do in PVP, a Sorcerer can do better; including DPS because of LoS. The only thing Snipers got going for them is that tanks can't jump to them when they are in cover.

 

I like playing my Sniper though. It's a challenge and you have to constantly be reading the battlefield and planning.

 

You sum it up well. I love my sniper also, but the other characters I have do things even better. Sorceror doesnt need explanation..... My shadow have extremely good defense and good dps.

But its something about the sniper. You actually feel like winning when you do, as it is a challenge.

[Tamanous]

Someone earlier basically challenged someone to show a level 50 post 1.1 pvp vid about sniper/gunslinger. Here ya go homies:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7vnTypI2AY

 

 

Notice some of the enemies he attacks have more hp's than him (you can see their health on their bar) and that he won several 2 or more on 1 battles. If his class sucks, somebody hurry up and go tell him so he can rage quit his class before he realizes how useless it is.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Tamanous

[Patiodadyo]

i have 2 friends who quit because snipers were too overpowered. See? I can make up numbers too.

 

what i don't do is give an opinion and claim it be a fact.

 

you aren't 50. you say we are the worst.

 

i am 50. I say we're fine.

 

those statements are both opinions. mine is based off experience, yours is not.

 

again, get to 50 and learn to play. or don't and play something else, obviously this class is too hard for you.

 

This is the truth. The sniper is a completely different play style than every other class. Sniper's get their best skills later on, certainly past your attained level. I bet you paint everything black and white too.

[iehnbjirsmniyn]

I dont get why ppl think mercenaries can take that many more hits with their extra ~7% mitigation (lol) from heavy armour compared to medium armour for a sniper when snipers have talents that reduce damage by 15% once every 6s with 3 charges granted after first going into cover. Mercenaries have an energy shield but snipers have ballistic shield.

 

Sniper casts cant be interrupted while mercenary casts can. Anything that can knock a sniper out of cover and interrupt casts while also interrupt a mercenary from casting.

 

I also dont get why some people think sniper melee stun is a joke when melee is on you compared to mercenary's ranged stun they both stun and are both 4s but the sniper stun is on a shorter cooldown. Stunning melee at range before they're in your face vs stunning melee when they are in your face doesn't change the fact that they'll still be in your face.

[wessik]

Yes, snipers are very gear dependent. Many of the squishier classes are.

 

I think that snipers have a few issues (mostly issues with the mechanics of the class), but we are largely fine.

 

Playing PvP from 10-49 as a Sniper gives you the false impression that everything is perfectly fine - if anything, maybe even a little overpowered. But this is because you're playing against people lacking core talents, people wearing green and blue gear, and people who simply haven't figured out how to best play their classes yet (particularly against other human beings).

 

When you first hit 50, you hit a huge wall, because you're being thrown agaisnt people who are all lvl 50, many have been 50 for weeks, many are wearing pretty bonkers gear compared to yours, and many do nothing but PvP all day. Suddenly you're hitting like a fruit fly against heavily armored classes, being interrupted to death, and other DPS classes are smart enough to immediately recognize and target you.

 

But if you tough it out, focus on obtaining better gear (Centurion PvP gear, for a start, can be obtained pretty quickly), and learn from your encounters, your scores will start to return to some semblance of what they were pre-50. Just don't get discouraged when you're being exploded over and over again at first, and learn from each round.

 

My only major issues with our class, are as follows:

• We need to be able to knockback pulse out of cover. Having to go into cover to knockback, makes it impossible to precision time them in huttball. Can't count the numbers of times I've tried to knock a guy backwards or sideways, only to launch them towards the goal because I had to crouch first.
  
• We need to be able to take cover when rooted. Rooting a sniper might as well be the same as a stun, because all of our major abilities require us to crouch. And being stuck in place shouldn't prevent us from crouching down.
  
• They need to fix the various "Unknown Effect Result" errors that occur when you try to take cover on a ledge, or on irregular level geometry.
  
• Some of our sniping abilities should be able to bypass some of the armor checks they are currently subjected to. This is why we hit like a spitball against heavies.
  

 

Aside from that, I just have a few minor quibbles or suggestions for how to make our class better. But the above points are the only things I would really consider "bad" in the context of PvP.

 

People complaining about being useless in PvP, either don't have the gear, or simply aren't playing the class well enough. And sometimes you will still just have a bad round. Sometimes people just have your number for a few rounds, or a whole night. It happens - it doesn't mean our class is broken.

 

EDITT: And I should add that when I say that, I don't mean it in the jerky "L2P nub" context some other "leet gamerz" use it in.

 

everything said here is the absolute TRUTH