Whats the point in playing a pure DPS class?

[Jestunhi]

CBA.

 

You don't want to discuss the issue, you want everyone to agree with you.

 

Pointless taking this further.

 

Bioware: please balance based on the actual data captures from the game, not whine threads like this one.

 

Peace.

[EternalFinality]

CBA.

 

You don't want to discuss the issue, you want everyone to agree with you.

 

Pointless taking this further.

 

Bioware: please balance based on the actual data captures from the game, not whine threads like this one.

 

Peace.

 

You just want your precious status quo untouched.

[Stovokor]

Not sure how it goes for Gunslinger/Sniper but for Sentinel/Marauder I've noticed the following:

 

1. We do, flat out, the most potential damage of any class. Under ideal circumstances and with identical gear, a Sent/Mara will out-damage anything.

 

2. We have to be in melee to do pretty much any of that damage.

 

3. We spend a lot of time being punted around/rooted/stunned or focus-fired.

 

If you're left to your own devices you will absolutely destroy people. This rarely happens, but when it does it is GLORIOUS.

 

Personally I'm not all that bothered by raw numbers in pvp - it's all about the win. I help where I can by pressuring healers, which Sent/Mara are naturally good at.

 

For PvE I've never had a problem doing an absolute ton of damage - so much so I find myself using my aggro-wipe pretty regularly on bosses/champions and my tanks know what they're doing. I've never heard them complain about anyone else being hard to keep aggro from. I prove my worth - particularly in longer fights where Juyo stays stacked up, Zen keeps those burns critting and I don't have to worry about running out of Force or Ammo.

 

There's also a lot to be said about itemisation - two fresh 50's in basic gear might be close to each other in damage terms, making the dps classes seem pretty worthless, but as gear improves that gap gets bigger since our damage scales better with improved gear.

 

^ This guy knows what he is talking about. I've also heard similar echoed from Sentinels that have adapted and now reaping the benefits. I've also felt the disparity first hand ... some holy crap moments. Sentinels that know how to play and have comparable gear are quite devastating.

 

As for the imagery of Single hybrid classes putting out obscene DPS and at the same time healing like crazy is not possible unless they outgear the enemy by a margin. ( a different story ) If not talented into healing tree, the heals will be borderline pathetic ( like 2k to 4 k crit ) for average player and require casting. Without talents they also consume inordinate amount of resources. That heal would likely be negated by 1 or 2 attacks.

 

If a premade is set up certain way for synergy and cross healing ( lets say sorcerors ) they would be able to achieve good results. But this more due to factors of being good premade / gear advantage / opposition.

 

I have come across both scenarios, have to say without the geared premades synergy the hybrid healing classes really don't have any reliable method to outheal similarly geared opposition. I am not even utilizing a class with interrupt ( Assault Spec Trooper ) .... pure DPS will do bad things to them.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Stovokor

[Jestunhi]

You just want your precious status quo untouched.

 

Since the threads just been bumped up I'll briefly say yes, that's why I asked BW to balance based on their own metrics - because I think their metrics show everything as perfect right now.

 

 

 

[Gaidax]

I knew all along that pure DPS is not going to have DPS advantage and I was really torn between Merc and Sniper. In the end I decided to main Sniper, because I like rifles and don't want to find myself curing people's boo boos. I also wanted a class which is mass outdoor PvP ready, luckily Sniper delivered there.

 

Lack of healing is well compensated by other stuff we get, which is pretty über, really and for some reason is totally underappreciated.

[IThrowRocks]

Because what else are they good for?

 

What you're dancing around is that even though you're a "dps spec hybrid" you still have those abilities available. If a raid boss went into some kind of rage mode where they dealt more damage for a short period, you could stop dpsing and heal the tank, even if you don't do it as well as a healer spec is. But you still CAN, and it could prevent a wipe.

 

If adds come, you can take one temporarily even if you wouldn't last as long as a tank specced player would. But you still CAN, and it could prevent a wipe.

 

Same logic applies to PvP. You are inherently more valuable simply because you can DO MORE, and at no penalty to your ability to switch back to dps.

 

 

Hybrids aren't good at raiding. Figure out the composition you need and bring it. Halfsy characters just hurt a raid group.

[EternalFinality]

Hybrids aren't good at raiding. Figure out the composition you need and bring it. Halfsy characters just hurt a raid group.

 

But they're not halfsy characters. They do just as much damage as a pure dps class, while retaining the ability to do something else badly. So why ever bring a pure dps class?

Edited January 28, 2012 by EternalFinality

[McVade]

that BH spamming tracer missle is hitting me, the ball carrier, trying to make a goal/trying to protect the ball handler

 

oh and they can bubble and heal

 

don't worry though, if I'm lucky I can hobble over to the health power up

 

This made me laugh, then die a little on the inside.

[Aweus]

But they're not halfsy characters. They do just as much damage as a pure dps class, while retaining the ability to do something else badly. So why ever bring a pure dps class?

Same question asked since years in WoW. No good answer. They are even in worst situation becouse all buffs that pure class can bring can be mimicked by some other class. In SWTOR there are two pure dps classes, sniper/gunslinger and marauder/sentinel. First brings the unique damage reduction shield and second brings unique (at least I think so) raid damage increase cooldown. So for operations there is SOME reason to bring them.

[Lurdtz]

I am here to provide Green Goo.

[Aedn]

I'm trying to grasp this as I'm seeing bounty hunters and other classes like Inquisitors doing all types of insane damage, yet being able to provide protection in Warzones along with heals. So what is the point of playing a class that can only do damage?

 

 

To answer your question, its basically personal preference. Beyond that, there is no real reason to roll a sniper or Marauder, unless you specifically want to play in a group, in which case marauders can destroy most anything as part of a well made group.

 

Right now the game mechanics promote attrition over burst. Currently sorcs, mercs, tank types are all attrition fighters. The only case in which this was not true, was the OP/Scoundrel instagib, which in and of itself was bad design, due to creating a situation where the opposing player could not react more often then not.

 

Problem is, most people who roll snipers and marauders frankly expect to just face roll over everything, or frankly are just bad players who play into the opponents favor more often then not. I play against several marauders and its rebel counterpart who just destroy people and are huge factors in warzone matches every time. Sadly, outside of those few, the rest are worthless, and fail to even put out 100k damage in most matches at 50.

 

I expect it wont matter anyway in another 2-3 months as the typical massive class nerfs/buffs will turn this game into the typical FOTM class mmo. that said, if a marauder cant destroy a arsenal specced merc 1v1 you really need to improve on your gameplay. Sorcs are harder then mercs because of the bubble and escape ability as well as they interupts which mercs do not, but they are still easily killed by well played melee dps classes.

[zqsd]

Exactly. In all honesty, it would make much more sense if Snipers/Gunslingers and Marauders/Sentinels did more damage than anyone because of the fact that that's all they can do. As opposed to, say, a Juggernaut doing insane damage, yet racking in more medals than a Marauder because of the fact he can guard as hell.

 

 

Are there any Marauders/Sentinels and Gunslingers/Snipers out there that can vouch that they add to a team as much as those than can guard/heal?

 

Actually shadow and assassins should do most damage, they are melee, in cloth armor and can't do anything but DPS if they are deception or madness spec.

[ProfessorWalsh]

Actually shadow and assassins should do most damage, they are melee, in cloth armor and can't do anything but DPS if they are deception or madness spec.

 

You know that Shadows and Assassins have better passive defenses than Jedi Sentinels and Sith Marauders right?

 

Yes, they have cloth armor (which isn't much worse than medium) but their passive "armor" is higher due to getting a flat 10% mitigation bonus. So, no, Sentinel has the worst armor and they don't pick a spec, they are DPS. Every spec. They can only DPS. That is all the class can do.

 

No stun (save for a single one which is channeled.)

No push or pull

No single target long term mez

No healing (save for a weak one if you are Watchmen)

 

Nothing but damage in every single spec available.

 

They are also the least played class in the game for that reason and are being denied groups because they are inferior in operations and flashpoints.

[Lexster]

Shadows and assassins also have passives that increase the value of the cloth armor. Tank stance nearly triples this, but the other get around 60% increase and I believe their trees have the ability to spec it closer to 100% bonus.

[zqsd]

You know that Shadows and Assassins have better passive defenses than Jedi Sentinels and Sith Marauders right?

 

Yes, they have cloth armor (which isn't much worse than medium) but their passive "armor" is higher due to getting a flat 10% mitigation bonus

 

You are wrong, shadow don't have -10% passive damage reduction.

 

If you are talking about our BUFF which, so , everyone has in WZ, it only reduces internal / elemental damage, has nothing to do with armor (= kinetic / energy/ weapon dmg reduction)

 

So, no, shadow are the squishiest and so, must do the most dps.

Edited January 28, 2012 by zqsd

[ClayPeopleCry]

I have always thought the classes should work like this...

 

Classes with a tank tree available should do ok DPS but really they are just walking meat shields that take forever to kill especially if they space into their tanking tree.

 

Classes with a healing tree should die in a few hits, and have horrible DPS, but insane spike damage. Like all their damage attacks should be channeled but do a butt load of damage if they successfully cast it. Like enough to kill someone in 2 or 3 hits. But their real power should come from being able to keep people alive with tons of healing skills that get even stronger if they go down their healing tree.

 

Pure DPS classes should be harder to kill than a healing class, but not as hard as a tank class. They should also do the most DPS. Not huge spike damage like the healers but sustained damage. Like they can just keep on relentlessly hitting you with some decently hard strikes over and over till you die.

Edited January 28, 2012 by ClayPeopleCry

[mennoknight]

This is a very VALID point. Why are Healers topping the charts in DAMAGE and HEALING?

 

Because everyone is so focused on the flashy tank with the lightsaber that they ignore the ranged attacks and heals.

 

It's very easy to top damage meters when no one is attacking you

[hoantran]

I have a shadow and a sentinel that I play. I can tell you jsut because they can put up numbers doesnt mean I cant totally destory them as a pure dps class. On my shadow no inqus stands a chance if i jump on them. On my sentinel they last a little longer but they will die and I will come out easily with 90% health after the confrontation.

Mercs are a different story. those single button spam ******* you run into make me so angry in warzones. however I can still defeat them 1v1 on my sentinel just not on my shadow.

 

I mainly play my sentinel since I like that class alot more. As pure dps I usually am top in dmg with relative ease. My only goal in every wz isnt to protect or heal but to jump on and just start destroying those healers then turn to the tanks because I have a few attacks that Ignore all armor and its pretty much true dmg.

 

The only reason why these tank classes and healer classes seem to put up more damage than alot of pure dps classes is because they can spam their 3 second channel ability over and over in pvp with no real cooldown on it. Since every classes channel ability is pretty much their highest dmg ability. If those classes are left unchecked or challenged in pvp then they get a little out of hand. Pure dps classes can get on top of those and make it to where they will never be able to spam that ability. The only classes that can totally shut them down from doing that are pure dps classes. such as sentinel and gunslinger. Also a good little tip is since its a tech attack and a force attack is you have resilience pop it and they will be waisting their time doing no dmg to you. Only pure dps classes have thier channel ability that isnt tech or force ability its just straight dmg and cannot be ignored by resilience.

 

If you want to stop those ranged tanks/Healers that are just spamming those buttons to do dps. you MUST have pure dps on your team to stop them from ever getting a chance to do that.

 

nice post... all true.^^;

[hoantran]

Because everyone is so focused on the flashy tank with the lightsaber that they ignore the ranged attacks and heals.

 

It's very easy to top damage meters when no one is attacking you

 

players who knows what these guys do unchecked ----- LOVE getting in their faces. i know i do -- and i dont mind chasing one person all over the map for a 3 minute kill.^^

[Sgt_shades]

This is a very VALID point. Why are Healers topping the charts in DAMAGE and HEALING?

 

Because of AEs. It doesn't mean it really effects any fights unless all the enemy is bunched together and stays inthe AE. Your not gonna ever get burned down by an AE unless others are helping and focusing. Its just number buffing really. You wont find a dps that cant go toe to toe against a healers dps and not out do him by a bunch. Too many people looking at inflated scoreboard numbers.

Edited January 28, 2012 by Sgt_shades

[Sgt_shades]

players who knows what these guys do unchecked ----- LOVE getting in their faces. i know i do -- and i dont mind chasing one person all over the map for a 3 minute kill.^^

 

LOL. Hate it so much when that happens. Although be carefull not to totally ignore an objective.

[Vordy]

To do DPS.

[RoeKG]

What's also funny is that sents/mars and snipers/gunslingers aren't very good ballcarriers in Huttball, either. That also goes to hybrid classes. As do extra medals for protection and healing.

 

I love my sniper and I won't re-roll to a fotm class, but I find myself with some buyer's remorse. I wish that as a pure damage class I could see results like that's the case. In other MMOs I always rolled a hybrid for the heals and paid the hybrid tax. In TOR I went with pure DPS so I can destroy other players and now that's not the case.

 

I remember BW said that every spec was within 2% of all the rest for PvP, I'd love for that statement and those statistics to be reviewed now. I'm sure it wouldn't be the same as pre-launch. I'd imagine Mercs and Sorcs (and their Republic counterparts) would be well in front of Snipers and Marauders.

[mennoknight]

players who knows what these guys do unchecked ----- LOVE getting in their faces. i know i do -- and i dont mind chasing one person all over the map for a 3 minute kill.^^

 

I do that sometimes too. The problem is, most people don't do this. They'll rush in and go after the first person they can see (or the person hitting them with damage) and ignore the healer entirely.

[FINALBOSS]

As a sniper/gunslinger, I often ask myself who the 5k dmg medal is made for? I know I've never gotten it.

 

Also doesn't help I don't see any of the damage I'm doing at 35M thanks to the numbers not popping up.