Torothin Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) First I see people rolling 2 points in the AP tree which IMO should be 3 to ignore 60% of armor(RS is improtant for me don't know about you.). And then people are avoiding the 2 points which allow for 6% more Aim equating to more overall DPS. What's the deal with this build fellow Pyro techs? I'm not bashing, I'm asking for an explanation. Edited January 25, 2012 by Torothin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Libertine Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 somebody wanted to name a build but all the good ones were taken so he just made up some gimpy hybrid ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PianoTie Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) Who is saying that u dont have to take Aim or all in Puncture? The only key to the build is Neural Overload. Edited January 25, 2012 by PianoTie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugneto Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 It does Gimp dps. It's proponents merely argue that guard and the survivability you gain from it outweighs the reduced damage. I argue the opposite. The DPS loss is too great to justify the build, espec because def stats are borked in pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PianoTie Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 The reason I use it because I have friends to play with, so the fact that I can Guard benefits my team ALOT more. As solo I have no clue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugneto Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 You'll make a lot of friends if you DOUBLE everyone elses dps ALL THE TIME. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torothin Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 IMO if you're a Pyro build you should maximize your DPS since it is a DPS build. This is my build. http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301hMbZ0cZfhrrzhGMs.1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PianoTie Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) All I loose in dmg is the DoT effect from CGC. Learn to use Guard and harvest medals. And the amount of Battlamasters I'm facing makes Guard alot better. All in all it's all about play style. If I wanted to fill a DPS i would run Pyro with CGC, but atm I'm support and realy enjoy it. *Edit* And if u doubble others DPS u must have some terrible Assassins, Marauders and Mercs on your server. Edited January 25, 2012 by PianoTie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShockDevil Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 What is a bulldog build? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taugrimtaugrim Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 First I see people rolling 2 points in the AP tree which IMO should be 3 to ignore 60% of armor(RS is improtant for me don't know about you.). And then people are avoiding the 2 points which allow for 6% more Aim equating to more overall DPS. What's the deal with this build fellow Pyro techs? I'm not bashing, I'm asking for an explanation. If you put points in the tank tree, and if you are running the tank stance instead of the DPS stance, of course your DPS is going to take a hit. There was a guy the other day who created a thread about a 31-pt Pyrotech build who wrote that he's never seen a 21/2/18 build out-DPS him. Duh! You don't pick up Guard capability to boost your DPS. You run Guard capability to boost the survivability of friendlies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torothin Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 So it is a support build then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Umpire Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) is this bulldog build the shield/pyro parakeet hybrid stupid name ***? If so, then ya missing the point of the build. 21/2/18 is really just about having extra flame punches to proc extra extra rail shots. You gain rocket charge, and a little survivability. I stay in ICG to make use of gaurd as I play a lot of D. This spec makes you tanky without making your DPS absolute garbage. There's no reason to go higher than rocket charge in the tank tree for pvp, so you get ppa (rail shot procs) instead. edit: also nice for tanking 4 mans once you're out of quest greens Edited January 25, 2012 by Umpire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PianoTie Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) All u see run with IGC are support/tank. And if they belive they are DPS, well let em belive it. Edited January 25, 2012 by PianoTie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZNICK Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 6% Aim (in some cases only 60-70 aim) just doesn't give enough increase to make it worthwhile for some people when there's another skill those 2 points suits them better with. It all depends on the goals of the player. Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mhak Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) First I see people rolling 2 points in the AP tree which IMO should be 3 to ignore 60% of armor(RS is improtant for me don't know about you.). And then people are avoiding the 2 points which allow for 6% more Aim equating to more overall DPS. What's the deal with this build fellow Pyro techs? I'm not bashing, I'm asking for an explanation. It does gimp your DPS. To maximize DPS you require a 4/6/31 spec. The spec posted on the previous page that ignores 6% chance for fire abilities to crit and 3% tech crit are ignoring a fairly large chunk of damage, considering Pyrotech is largely a fire/crit/crit damage-based spec. Gaining 2% fire damage and 6% Aim is not a fair tradeoff for 9% less chance for IM/FB/CGC to crit and 3% less chance for RS/TD to crit. Edited January 25, 2012 by Mhak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevvy Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 There was a guy the other day who created a thread about a 31-pt Pyrotech build who wrote that he's never seen a 21/2/18 build out-DPS him. Duh! You don't pick up Guard capability to boost your DPS. You run Guard capability to boost the survivability of friendlies. But most people only care about the damage they've done at the end of their WZ. Forget utility and survivability. o_O WoW generation imo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mhak Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) But most people only care about the damage they've done at the end of their WZ. Forget utility and survivability. o_O WoW generation imo! Consider the following: going full Pyro you still have 30% mitigation from armor and 12% from expertise in full champ gear, meaning 42% energy/kinetic mitigation and 12% everything else. Considering tank stats like defense/shield/abs are often ignored entirely in PvP, full Pyrotechs are in many situations nearly as tanky as a full tank, and because you're never guarding anybody, often significantly more tanky because your buddy isn't being beat to death. The "utility" gained from other specs often comes at the cost of 100k-200k less damage done per game, easily more if spec'd high into ST. When that utility is often ultimately aimed at helping you kill people (IE the point of a lower grapple CD is so you can grapple people to melee range more often to kill them), this idea of sacrificing all that damage for said utility becomes entirely counterproductive. At least, according to Math it is. Exceptions are utility in the form of survivability such as flat DR or Guarding a healer and utility in the form of anti-CC when you are carrying a ball in Huttball. Edited January 25, 2012 by Mhak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spurgo Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Guys just to say two words... 2 weeks ago i was respeccing like mad to find a build that could fill my gamestyle. I have tried out FULL PYRO - PARAKEET (sorry for misspell) - FULL SHIELD. I found that FULL PYRO was a damn good build!! Yea... untill i faced some competent players that could melt my face in no time (marauders-assassins-sages). I tried the Hybrid one and enjoyed it a lot, but the diminishing damage was a hurt. I went to full shield and i found it really good with all the intterrupts and no heat problem with heat-blast, but the damage...meh. Then i have build this one, with a deep pyro build (31) enhancing my defences where its usefull (ARMOR) and allowing me to use guard on anyone. After some Wz i decided that this was what I WAS LOOKING FOR. But this build: BULLDOG (i named so because it hits like a truck and tank like a mini-panzer, but has NO STAMINA for prolonged fights. Exactly like the dog) is the build i prefer to play since allow me to play as an offensive player or a support one. Thers no a BETTER build, but a more or less enjoyable one. This is the build i love to play, it isnt meant to be the best for anyone, so dont bother if someone does twice your damage or some other is almost immortal. Enyoj it if u like or play other ones! Btw usually with this build i die only 0-2 times in a Wz, and with a full pyro one i have reached 400k damage, with this one 365k with the parakeet hybrid 250k. Matches are different one from the other ok, but i can tell you that i have never seen someone able to do more than 450k damage in a match where i was in. Dps is gimped by a low amount, not a high one. This is my consideration. Test it out and let us know. BE THE DOG BE THE BULLDOG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugneto Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Question for Spurgo and other "dogs": so dawg, do you lead with IM since you don't have an auto proc tied to FB or RP? This is one of the major flaws of this build. Also, comparing overall damage output to pyro is irelevant. It's the ability to burst down healers or tankys before they know what's happening that makes pyro shine. You lose that ability in any other spec. If anyone thinks different then they aren't pyroing properly. Again I'm not saying bulldog sucks, but i prefer pyro and parakeet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borkbork Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 IMO if you're a Pyro build you should maximize your DPS since it is a DPS build. This is my build. http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301hMbZ0cZfhrrzhGMs.1 Why 6% aim over 6% fire crits? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dharagada Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 You know what's nice? All these builds can be somewhat successful, no one style is standing up well above all others. The only question is what do you (the player) prioritize? Strong burst and with good range but lower survivability and mobility? Go Pyro. You will be able to blow up pretty much anyone in 1v1, can be a strong threat at range, but can be focused down fast and have no escape mechanics. Want slightly less burst (but still decent) and a bit more surviability? Try out the Bulldog. You live a bit longer, if you get focused (maybe enough for help to arrive) and still can hurt others). Want some nice utility with some extra control and mobility but a little less burst? Try out the 1/22/18 spec. Like being more mobile and tanky? Try Parakeet. There's also the build that drops some top tier pyro to pick up Aim from the shield tree, less bursty but probably a bit more sustained. All of these builds work, just find the one that works for what you want to do in the Warzone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torothin Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 Why 6% aim over 6% fire crits? I found guaranteed damage increase to give better results than a % at better damage outputs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fashooba Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Question for Spurgo and other "dogs": so dawg, do you lead with IM since you don't have an auto proc tied to FB or RP? This is one of the major flaws of this build. I dont know why ANYONE would RP to use RS when supercharged rails only works with burning targets. If you have immolate, I see no reason why you shouldn't be able to pop it on them while charging. Instant 30m good duration dot should be top priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugneto Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I dont know why ANYONE would RP to use RS when supercharged rails only works with burning targets. If you have immolate, I see no reason why you shouldn't be able to pop it on them while charging. Instant 30m good duration dot should be top priority. I assume you mean incendiary missile, not immolate. The reason why this is an issue is primarily because IM costs 25 heat, and does not have a chance to proc free RS. IM Dosnt do great dmg either, in my observation.Your opener in range in full pyro is TD or rapid followed by FB asap, if not FB as an opener. IAC a higher burst and more heat efficient opener by far. Reason I mention RP is because in Shield spec you use it to proc dot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dharagada Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 My opener at range is usually TD IM RS. IM hurts when the dot is allowed to tick for full duration. I generally use Thermal sensor for IM. Now once I close to the target and engage fully yeah I usually don't bother with keeping it up most of the time due to the heat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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