denpic Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 So what does this mean to the average player On a low end machine that's still enjoying the game Not much is my guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurfer Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Before the owner of the hero engine can blame BW coding he has to show us a game with comparable graphics to SWTOR utilizing the Hero engine with good performance. It sounds to ME that Bioware is stuck making a crap sandwhich taste good. I bet they wish they didn't roll with this crappy engine created out of some guys basement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctournys Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I swear I KNEW it was the engine even before this article. I friggin' NEW IT. Everyone on vent was complaining and all of us have awesome rigs and yet 5-10 fps in 25-25 pvp matches?!!?? Wooooow. I honestly feared it might be the engine and if that's the case, this game is doomed. But I hope they say and do something about this because at the current state of this game; it's unacceptable. How many of those "Awesome rigs" have AMD Phenom or Phenom II CPUs? 'cause guess what.. not one, not two, but count em THREE known issues with Phenom's that affect framerates in MULTIPLE games, not just this one. All of them require a BIOS flash. This affected two of my guildmembers who went from single FPS to a stable 50+ How many of those "Awesome rigs" have late-generation Core-2 series CPUs (Particularly Core 2 Extreme branded)? two known issues here. Both will cripple framerates in any game which stresses the CPU. One of these issues affected my wife's quad-core COre 2 Extreme based machine. Throttlestop was required to resolve the issue. Again, her framerates went from single digits in affected areas to a stable 60fps. (with Vsync enabled). How many of those "Awesome rigs" have first-generaion Core i-series CPUs? They throttle under middling heat loads at default EFI and BIOS settings. You have to change them to more real-world heat levels or use Throttlestop, or your framerates will be crippled. What i'm getting at is "Awesome rig" is usually a great way to say "Some piece of crap that I, a non-professionaly hobbyist, put together that is loaded up with 3rd party processes, out of date drivers, BIOS, cheap-*** bargain bin hardware, etc". We had more than 10 people in our guild of 25-ish that had "Crippling framerate issues". ALL OF THEM had their problems solved by some variation of: fixing one of the CPU-based problems above updating their drivers and removing bloatware All of them now get acceptable performance given their rigs (the not-so-stellar rigs getting 30fps or so, or better). But wait.. nevermind. You have an "Awesome rig" - the problem simply CANNOT POSSIBLY BE ON YOUR END... even though other people have "Awesome rigs" too - and have never had a framerate problem even in beta. Huh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hargrave Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I dont know whos to blame honestly what i do know is james ohlen is saying we have the best pvp team ever while meanwhile you cant even pvp 1/2 the time due to low fps. Ilum need i say more? Ive lost a HUGE amount of biowares respect and i do not trust you james ohlen 1.2 better be the uber patch i doubt it.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurfer Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I dont know whos to blame honestly what i do know is james ohlen is saying we have the best pvp team ever while meanwhile you cant even pvp 1/2 the time due to low fps. Ilum need i say more? Ive lost a HUGE amount of biowares respect and i do not trust you james ohlen 1.2 better be the uber patch i doubt it.............. James Ohlen is a moron for saying that... By best ever he meant pulling scrubs off the unemployment line after they were part of one of the biggest failures in MMO history? My PC is incredible, my framerates are generally good in SWTOR...very fluid; 8-10 republics come running up the hill in Ilum and all hell breaks loose...I am usually just spamming AoE to get some credit for kills before my **** freezes for 4 seconds. Funny how I run every other game fluid and flawless... "must be my drivers" <-- idiot advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurfer Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 How many of those "Awesome rigs" have first-generaion Core i-series CPUs? They throttle under middling heat loads at default EFI and BIOS settings. You have to change them to more real-world heat levels or use Throttlestop, or your framerates will be crippled. What i'm getting at is "Awesome rig" is usually a great way to say "Some piece of crap that I, a non-professionaly hobbyist, put together that is loaded up with 3rd party processes, out of date drivers, BIOS, cheap-*** bargain bin hardware, etc". fixing one of the CPU-based problems above updating their drivers and removing bloatware Oh great another "PC Tech" coming to save the day with useless advice. Dude this isn't 1999 anymore...PC's are so mainstream and straight forward these days there is little you can do to mess one up bad enough to make a significant FPS loss. Face it, you PC repair guys are equivalent to walmart customer service reps. Before you recommend someone goes to finallyfast to fix their PC, realize that your advice is uselss and if you think removing "Bloatware" or updating motherboard Bios will suddenly get someone from 1-3 fps to 60 fps then you're seriously mistaken... Must be why you're stuck fixing PC's rather than evolve into a real IT job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azgrey Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Did you play WAR during it's first year? 64 players in an RvR lake used to = server disco. In it's second year it did get noticably better though and could go up to 100 v 100 before Disco'ing. Again, it just takes time to sort these things. I did play WAR the first year (Azaziel server, which should prove it because I don't think that server even lasted a year before merge) and I recall times there would be 6-7 warbands in a zone with less issues than what we get in SWTOR. The only disco I saw was during keep takes right as the door would fall and at forts after everyone would try to rush inside. Both of those involved way, way more than 64 people (closer to hundreds) plus add in those stupid banner walls that each side would throw up. Even then LD's didn't happen all the time. More often you got black screen with the 1-2 minute ability/death delays. In this game 10 per side in close proximity ends up having the same performance level as a WAR Fort battle minus the missing 100+ people. So yeah, I agree it takes time to sort these things but I'd be daft to say an engine that craps out at 20 players is better than one that craps out at 100+, it's not even a contest. As someone else said, don't care who, don't care why, just fix the damn thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stovokor Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 So who is responsible for the fact that taskbars still unlock when entering warzones ? Engine or coders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vales Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 (edited) Well.. clearly lets just compare 2 games quick BF2 on Frostbite 2 Engine and this Swtor on HeroEngine: IN Bf3 on 64 player map, where everything is destructible, bullets flying here and there, flames, explosions we get stable game with 60FPS Ultra Settings. Now lets pick any 8v8 Warzone! What do we see? Horrible performance and fps. Let's pick Ilum 32 vs 32 fight. What do we get? A *********** 1 fps SLIDESHOW You reallt think the BF3 engine could handle 100+ players in one zone? No matter what Bioware is going to do with it, add more crates, change objectives, set limits. The game Engine aka HeroEngine will never be able to handle more than 8v8 battles. Why??? ---Engine is full of memory leaks ---not optimized ---full of bugs ---broken codes ---poor network In this article Neil Harris, President and COO of HeroEngine blames Bioware for poor coding trying to defend his Engine! http://www.heroengine.com/2011/11/heroengine-meets-starwars/#comments Regarding SW:TOR, we have no way to know how they are handling graphics detail, shading, or other factors that impact frame rate. An engine is the first step, and then it’s up to the engineers and art directors to manage the technical steps necessary to implement their game design. So, we can’t really give you any insight on how their game is performing in that way, and I’m sure they are working hard at improving any specific issues they are seeing. BioWare is responsible for their own game, we gave them the tools. by Neil Harris, President and COO of HeroEngine And how does the President know all of this? Did Bioware give him the full code of the Engine and he read it himself? Edited February 25, 2012 by Vales Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bordak Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Oh great another "PC Tech" coming to save the day with useless advice. Dude this isn't 1999 anymore...PC's are so mainstream and straight forward these days there is little you can do to mess one up bad enough to make a significant FPS loss. Face it, you PC repair guys are equivalent to walmart customer service reps. Before you recommend someone goes to finallyfast to fix their PC, realize that your advice is uselss and if you think removing "Bloatware" or updating motherboard Bios will suddenly get someone from 1-3 fps to 60 fps then you're seriously mistaken... Must be why you're stuck fixing PC's rather than evolve into a real IT job. Someone spent way too much money on their "LOLUBER" gaming rig and is jealous that people playing on 500 dollar craptops can play the game with next to zero lag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharonInferar Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 There is much discussion about the actual server lag. On illum PvP i would say the real problem is to a lesser extent the server lag, but either memory leak or just too long render queues for the engine. I see that everytime i crash to desktop after the frame rate went down to 1 FPS or periods of 4 seconds freezed screen and my buddy next to me in the same room still has an okayish framerate. This clearly shows it's a problem of the client's graphics processing. Bioware just went way too high polys on the characters for big PvP battles to render okay. It's been a game development dominated by "graphic designers" and not by "game designers". I guess with cutscene-like high quality textures enabled the group size limit would be 2 and warzones would be 2 vs 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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