How does one fall to the dark side?

[DrFaroohk]

It seems like sometimes even just fighting a certain way can bring you to the dark side, for instance, mace windu. People have speculated that had he could have fallen in his fight with Sidious. Seems like there's more than one story like that, some jedi discovers dark side powers and then bam he's a sith lord.

 

I can understand one falling off the wagon and going for some dark side power, but I don't get how that instantly turns you into a "bad guy". Sure, you might use lightning now, but suddenly you've betrayed the republic and killed your master too?

[Technotica]

I have wondered that too!

 

And what makes it more confusing is the Force. Is there a dark evil force that corrupts you to become dark and evil? Or does you being dark and evil make the force you use dark and evil?

 

For instance with Anakin. Did he become evil because the dark side of the force corrupted him? Or because he was evil somewhere in his core and that made him use the force in an evil way?

 

Since Lucas said there is only the light side of the force and the Sith are corrupting the force by using it in their way... how can the force corrupt you?

[WeapX]

If I do remember correctly from Jedi Academy, Force powers are not inherently evil or good its how you use them.

 

Basically when using the force for the wrong reason, it is evil so because the mediclorians or whatever give you powers are affected by your emotions thus they will react due to those things like anger hate etc. Since these are destructive powers your humanity is lost and thus your body gets corrupted (red eyes and stuff).

 

And in my opinion you gotta be pretty weak minded, insecure, vulnerable etc etc to fall to the dark side.

[AtrumErus]

They don't become evil until they acquire the cookies. =@,.,@=.

 

Naw, but I suppose, that the Republic or Jedi instantly jump to conclusions (as only they can) about one Force-user suddenly using dark side powers. Inevitably, the being falls to the dark side.

[Raiellyn]

I believe it really is just a metaphor for being seduced by the power itself. You dabble in the shallow end, ala Mace Windu. You realize there are certain flaws or weaknesses within your form, and correct them. Then you realize there is another, even more powerful form.

 

And bam. You're hooked. Like a drug, you keep on going for the next best thing.

 

I guess the best comparison would be money. If someone walked up and gave you fifty dollars, that would be great!

But what if they just stood there, giving you more and more money? Would you leave, or sit there, taking all you can get? Then add in the magical corruption aspect, which makes it even more akin to drug addiction and the like...

 

Anyway, that's how I always viewed it. Considering politicians are always described as "drunk with power" and power corrupts.

And what was old Palps again?

... Subtle, Lucas. Real subtle.

[AtrumErus]

I believe it really is just a metaphor for being seduced by the power itself. You dabble in the shallow end, ala Mace Windu. You realize there are certain flaws or weaknesses within your form, and correct them. Then you realize there is another, even more powerful form.

 

And bam. You're hooked. Like a drug, you keep on going for the next best thing.

 

I guess the best comparison would be money. If someone walked up and gave you fifty dollars, that would be great!

But what if they just stood there, giving you more and more money? Would you leave, or sit there, taking all you can get? Then add in the magical corruption aspect, which makes it even more akin to drug addiction and the like...

 

Anyway, that's how I always viewed it. Considering politicians are always described as "drunk with power" and power corrupts.

And what was old Palps again?

... Subtle, Lucas. Real subtle.

 

I noticed that too. Those silly politicians and their dark side ways. My bets are on that they eat a cookie with their newfound wealth and just want more.

 

And I'm rambling on with the irreverance again. 'tis an interesting way to put the fall to the dark side, though, Raiellyn.

[RodneyMcNeely]

I can understand one falling off the wagon and going for some dark side power, but I don't get how that instantly turns you into a "bad guy". Sure, you might use lightning now, but suddenly you've betrayed the republic and killed your master too?

From my perspective, the Force is all about balance and harmony - IS balance and harmony. What we refer to the Dark Side is what occurs when that balance is overturned.

 

For example, I remember reading in one official source that Force Lightning is a physical manifestation of the user's hatred - that the ONLY way to create the phenomenon was to be filled with hate.

 

On the other hand, you have powers like Telekinesis, that can be used in a number of ways. Using the Force to move an object isn't inherently good or evil. You could use the Force to keep a person from falling off a cliff, or you could use it to dangle him off the cliff, then drop him. One's good, the other is evil. It's all in the application.

 

I guess you could say that the Force reflects the good or evil that is within?

[DrFaroohk]

So, say Windu managed to reach into his darkness and pull out enough power to defeat sidious. What would've happened then? Would he be like "Hell yeah, now I'M THE EMPEROR!! YEAH!"

[Technotica]

But there are Jedi who use Force Lightning? (Skywalker even I think) They aren't corrupted.

[Raiellyn]

So, say Windu managed to reach into his darkness and pull out enough power to defeat sidious. What would've happened then? Would he be like "Hell yeah, now I'M THE EMPEROR!! YEAH!"

 

Probably not. Anakin's turn was awful, and way too fast, for instance. It wasn't him falling to the Dark Side. It looked more like Palps literally brainwashed him. >_>

 

So for Windu, I'd imagine he *might* be a bit worried in his weakness at how close a fight it was. He'd seek to improve his skills, which are based on a form used by Dark Siders, no less! We might then see a gradual slip where he keeps making concessions to feed his own power.

 

"I need to be more powerful to protect the Jedi." >>> "I need to be more powerful to protect the Jedi from themselves." >>> "I need to be more powerful to bring the Jedi under my ideals."

 

But he *was* a Jedi Master, so slipping was never a guarantee if he'd poked Palps right in the eye.

[Vezpasion]

Using a dark power doesn't necessarily make you evil. Luke Skywalker used force choke on a pair of Gamorrean's which is a power usually associated with the dark side.

 

The dark side is an inherent aspect of the force which feeds on certain emotions. Passion, the chief one, usually being the catalyst for the start of someone fall.

 

It all depends on being able to master your emotions, some can (Windu), some can't.

[Ancaglon]

Probably not. Anakin's turn was awful, and way too fast, for instance. It wasn't him falling to the Dark Side. It looked more like Palps literally brainwashed him. >_>

I agree. It could also just be bad writing and/or bad acting -- the last 10 minutes or so of Ep3 is just one long Nooooooooo! for me -- I haven't been able to bear watching it again since I saw it in the cinema.

[ErikModi]

Some aspects of the Force are inherently evil. Force Lightning being the big one. If you read the Return of the Jedi novel, it is described as a perversion of the Force, pouring all your rage and hate and desire to inflict pain into a physical manifestation of destruction. It simply cannot be used without drawing on the Dark Side.*

 

The aspect of the Dark Side has changed a lot. George Lucas has stated he considers it essentially a "cancer" in the Force caused by Dark Siders like the Sith. However, long before that idea was revealed, many EU authors set up the idea that the Dark Side is simply part of the yin-yang duality of the Force, that every light casts a shadow, every equal has an opposite. Some have written the Force more as a deity or deities, falling back on the Christian idea of there being a corrupting, seductive aspect of the Force (like the Devil) that actively attempt to seduce Force-users to the Dark Side. Others have played that it is simply the Force-users own desire for the unnatural power the Dark Side offers, or their inherent desire to dominate and control others, or simple mental instability that have lead to them falling to the Dark. In the New Jedi Order novels, something called the Potentium Heresy was introduced, which was basically the concept that the Force has no Dark Side, but that the Dark Side exists within the "soul" of the individual. Thus, you are not seduced by the Dark Side of the Force, but by the Dark Side of your own nature. George himself later stepped in called horse-hockey, which is roughly how Jacen Solo wound up becoming a Sith Lord.

 

Possibly my favorite interpretation of how the Dark Side works is in Timothy Zhan's Hand of Thrawn duology (which is great reading if for no other reason than to watch Pappa Zhan wag his finger at certain authors who ruined the Star Wars EU.) Near the very beginning of the first novel, Luke and Han find themselves in orbit of a planet as it is being attacked by pirates. Luke is thinking about how to deal with the situation, reflecting that he could reach out with the Force to tear the ship apart, crush its weapons systems, or even reach into the minds of the crew and force them to sit idly while the local authorities board and arrest them. In the words of Zhan: For a Jedi Master, with the Force as his ally, there really were no limits. No limits at all.

 

It is at this point that Luke sees Palpatine and Exar Kun as shadow spirits laughing at him, and realizes that, maybe, he's taken this whole "the ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force" thing a little bit too far, and starts backing off on his "showy" Force use (a trope several bad EU writers use a lot. . . oh no we're all going to die- Use the Force, Luke! There, everything's alright!) This idea is reinforced when Han and Luke get down to the planet. Han has volunteered to negotiate a settlement between two alien races. One of them negotiates by arguing, shouting, bullying, insulting, and generally carrying on cranky, so he'll have Chewie talk to them. The other race is a kind of cool, detached, impurturbible lot, which Han figures is sort of like Luke's deep Jedi trance stuff, so he'll have Luke talk to them, and then Chewie will take what the one group says, Luke will take what the other group says, and the three of them will come up with a solution. Except that the aliens don't want to talk to Luke, because, as Han tells him, they think that any Jedi who gets as "showy" with the Force as Luke does inevitably goes to the Dark Side.

 

Much later, Mara educates Luke on a facet of the Force he was ignorant of. She draw the analogy of birds nesting in a large reactor, and how you can't hear them signing over the noise. The Force is kind of like that. The more actively you use it, the more "noise" you make with it, the less attuned you are to listening to it. (Mara Jade also has, in my opinion, the best line in the whole EU, dismissing the entire plot of Dark Empire with "Whatever.")

 

This idea is reinforced in the prequels. Remember when Anakin used the Force to show off for Padme at dinner? He says "If Master Obi-Wan saw me doing this, he'd be very grumpy." This indicates to me that the Jedi frown on using the Force for casual or trivial tasks, which indicates that Zhan was on to something. . . using the Force too much can, perhaps, blind you to it's subtler nudgeings, the "Will of the Force" Qui-Gon spoke of. Not only that, but relying on the Force for power to do things beyond what "mere mortals" can accomplish creates the idea that, perhaps, you are substantially better than others, and perhaps you don't need to answer to them? Power corrupts, after all.

[Avrose]

The way it was explain to me was the light and dark-sides of the force coincide to life and death respectively. The Dark-side is all about death and destruction at its core. what causes the fall is in order to empower the dark-side you have to destroy things.

 

An example of this was when Darth Bane was dieing of a poison he didn't foresee entering his system he quickly murdered someone to generate enough dark-side force energy to hold himself together.

 

Also a budding Sith has to preform an act of evil to fully embrace dark-side powers.

 

The dark-side because destroying is easier seems more powerful. This provides much temptation to many young jedi since the easy way seems the stronger way.

 

Does that help?

 

[Edit]

Frankly I always liked that the Dark-side in a cancer idea but frankly no one really buys that.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Avrose

[elexier]

I still want to know how Love instantly means darkside.

 

Anger and HATRED are what drives the dark side.

 

SOOOO

 

Happiness and LOVE should drive the light side.

 

I think personally it goes sommin like this.

 

 

Anger and hate = Dark

 

Truth, Honor and loyalty = Light

 

Love = one up on light.

 

So the Jedi order are not the opposite so to speak there the middle ground, Love is the power that drives off hate. (You cannot love and hate the same person, they might annoy/irritate you but if you love them you can't hate them)

 

I think the only reason Love is "Forbidden to all accept a select few withing the order" Is because if you love is killed or "cheats" on you you might go over the edge.

 

But it works the other way too, You might be evil and give a crap about no one, But if you fall in Love it can soften you bringing you out of the dark into the light.

 

I suppose I can see why the Orders forbid love (Perticualy the dark side, Imagin all there sith warriors going soft ) But the Jedi could if they wanted to and put time into it, encourage it and end up with a huge army of Force users should things call for it.

 

I know I wouldn't want to kill a Force user who's whole 3,5 generation strong family are either force users or worse Jedi

[REiiGN]

I agree. It could also just be bad writing and/or bad acting -- the last 10 minutes or so of Ep3 is just one long Nooooooooo! for me -- I haven't been able to bear watching it again since I saw it in the cinema.

 

It was bad writing. The book of Revenge of the Sith actually explained it a lot better and it was reckless of Lucas to not include more scenes explaining stuff from it.

 

Anakin really wasn't going dark he just wanted things we considered normal. He wanted his own place to live, material possessions, having children and a normal marriage to Padme. Emperor just flatout saw the future for Vader and used Padme's stupid "dying to losing the will to live" as a way to corrupt him. Even said in the book he built the facility to make Vader's suit way before he even turned. He had medical crews on standby with him to Mustafar and knew exactly where to go to find Vader.

 

BTW, it took no time for Vader to get his evil Sith corruption eyes but took me forever in this game. Guess I just needed to kill Mace Windu, massacre a Jedi Temple, and choke a Padme to get it. Still wish someone else directed RotS.

[SonofInnocence]

I still want to know how Love instantly means darkside.

 

Anger and HATRED are what drives the dark side.

 

SOOOO

 

Happiness and LOVE should drive the light side.

 

I think personally it goes sommin like this.

 

 

Anger and hate = Dark

 

Truth, Honor and loyalty = Light

 

Love = one up on light.

 

So the Jedi order are not the opposite so to speak there the middle ground, Love is the power that drives off hate. (You cannot love and hate the same person, they might annoy/irritate you but if you love them you can't hate them)

 

I think the only reason Love is "Forbidden to all accept a select few withing the order" Is because if you love is killed or "cheats" on you you might go over the edge.

 

But it works the other way too, You might be evil and give a crap about no one, But if you fall in Love it can soften you bringing you out of the dark into the light.

 

I suppose I can see why the Orders forbid love (Perticualy the dark side, Imagin all there sith warriors going soft ) But the Jedi could if they wanted to and put time into it, encourage it and end up with a huge army of Force users should things call for it.

 

I know I wouldn't want to kill a Force user who's whole 3,5 generation strong family are either force users or worse Jedi

 

You're hitting the nail on the head there. There is no "GOOD" in the Star Wars Universe, from my understanding. There's Order, and there's Chaos. There's Peace, and there's Passion. There's "Neutral" and there's "Dark". That's usually how I observe it, and why I feel like the Dark Side is the only real choice for me. Emotion is frowned upon by the Jedi. Yes, The Dark Side is prone to hatred and anger... but love is also rejected by the Jedi (atypically... not in all cases, from what I hear). Love is also the strongest trigger, like you said, for other emotions. So naturally in our nature, the Dark Side is irresistible. Why? Because it's the most human.

 

I enjoy the SW Universe for the simple fact that it's NOTHING like our Western perspective of Good/Evil, Right/Wrong, etc...

[Gphalen]

really?

 

Simple.

 

The celestials ( The Origina force users) were light no darkside.

 

they began fueding. two factions light dark..

 

 

To be seduced by the dark side:

 

The force does not dicker between light and dark its a living force it has no ill intent,

 

Mace windu was never a sith nor did he ever become close he invented Vapad lightsaber form which allows him to funnel parts of the dark side into his attacks ie there is no emotion only peace he could use emotion in the attacks as a master of the form he could tred the line.

 

 

Anikan Skywalker, Revan these are jedi who fell to the darkside.

 

Revan was unkown never actually discussed what he and malik found other then the Emperor used them as puppets.

 

so lets just look at a sith from start to finish..

 

Sidious. was recruited by Plageious a Bith sith. say that 5 times fast..

 

He had force powers greater then any sith in the era, he could literally close his force pressence off from sith and jedi making him a true shadow. which were jedi not sith btw.

 

 

In using his force powers to Murder his family, Sidious chose to use his powers for evil rather then good. Plageious had no idea he even had the midi chlorian count to achieve anything there for desired him as a apprentice. Upon accepting this master his fate was sealed in the dark side.

 

Light and dark are just other words for good and evil. its not how you use to force Jedi kill too its the intent in which you use them.

 

 

A good refference would be read the New Jedi order stories read Jacen Solos fall from jedi to sith im sure it will be laid out over the series.

 

pick up a novel read the lore, this game fails at lore. Its really kind of sad considering they had 5 years to RnD the lore of the game. Lucas should have appointed someone to demand the lore was done properly after all its his intellectual property rights being screwed up here.

[Gphalen]

I still want to know how Love instantly means darkside.

 

Anger and HATRED are what drives the dark side.

 

SOOOO

 

Happiness and LOVE should drive the light side.

 

I think personally it goes sommin like this.

 

 

Anger and hate = Dark

 

Truth, Honor and loyalty = Light

 

Love = one up on light.

 

So the Jedi order are not the opposite so to speak there the middle ground, Love is the power that drives off hate. (You cannot love and hate the same person, they might annoy/irritate you but if you love them you can't hate them)

 

I think the only reason Love is "Forbidden to all accept a select few withing the order" Is because if you love is killed or "cheats" on you you might go over the edge.

 

But it works the other way too, You might be evil and give a crap about no one, But if you fall in Love it can soften you bringing you out of the dark into the light.

 

I suppose I can see why the Orders forbid love (Perticualy the dark side, Imagin all there sith warriors going soft ) But the Jedi could if they wanted to and put time into it, encourage it and end up with a huge army of Force users should things call for it.

 

I know I wouldn't want to kill a Force user who's whole 3,5 generation strong family are either force users or worse Jedi

 

 

 

 

 

Lets clear that up..Old republic era Jedi lived like monks and were the puppets of the republic, as is the new jedi order Puppets of the Galactic alliance..oddly enough more then enough jedi spoke openly about this..

 

Love no longer means Darkside. Luke and Mara Skywalker begot Ben skywalker etc etc etc etc etc love is allowed even during the fall of the order not mentioned is a second sect of jedi who allow relationships against the jedi councils decree so they split off..again ?

[aklsdbh]

In my opinion, there is no light, or dark....there is only the force.

 

If we think about it in terms of control...which it all is:

 

The Jedi (light) believe that control over your emotions will make you stronger and that peace is the path...but the truth of life is a bit more harsh than that, peace is a lie they tell themselves in order to assist them in feeling as if they have some "control", as if they can make things better by using peace as a tool and cause the forced oppression of emotion in order to accomplish this. In their struggle to be balance we have seen first hand that they are indecisive and slow to respond to crisis. Many times blaming the "will of the force" for their inaction, thus not bringing balance at all...and only really inserting themselves in arguments/combat of "religious/ideological" position...it is a thinly veiled disguise I think...and not quite as noble as they would have us believe.

 

Simple idea...stare at the sun (The light) and it will burn out your eyes....

 

The Sith (incorrectly named unless pure blood (dark)) believe that through passion, and anger I fuel my rage and thus become powerful...but the truth of life is a bit less aggressive, power is a lie they tell themselves in order to feel as if they have "control", as if they can make things the way they want, using their passion as a tool causing the oppression of others in order to accomplish this. In their struggle to be powerful we have seen first hand that they are to quickly angered and act rashly in crisis. Many times using the "I know better than all" for their actions, thus not bringing true power at all...only really inserting themselves into affairs from a purely selfish point of view...not quite as powerful as they would have us believe.

 

Simple idea...live in the dark and soon enough your eyes will atrophy...

 

the truth is the light is the sun...the dark is the earth...and the force is a river that flows between...and sith or jedi all you get to do is ride the current of that river and make yourself feel like you actually did something...

 

But that is simply my opinion...as a result of my belief system I consider myself apart from both Jedi and Sith, and feel that mine is the one true view of the force...all else is an exercise in control, and not a true representation of the force.

 

Based on that you cant "FALL" to the dark side...you must choose to use your gift in a malicious fashion...whether alone or manipulated..you must choose. Since the "dark side" is a representation of ones behavior and not a descriptor of the living force itself.

[Rhyltran]

But there are Jedi who use Force Lightning? (Skywalker even I think) They aren't corrupted.

 

Skywalker uses a lightside version of it known as electric judgement. Also to the poster above. The Jedi Academy game is wrong. Luke doesn't share this view. Luke tells his son in fate of the jedi otherwise.

[lokdron]

Well if you play jedi academy if you start investing into dark side powers luke and kyle start QQing at you saying they can sense a lot of hate within you and you will fall to the dark side if you keep going like this. So this is why i hold the view that dark side powers are corruptive because you have to be in a state of pure rage and anger to use dark side force powers.

[FichutheDude]

I still want to know how Love instantly means darkside.

 

Anger and HATRED are what drives the dark side.

 

SOOOO

 

Happiness and LOVE should drive the light side.

 

I think personally it goes sommin like this.

 

 

Anger and hate = Dark

 

Truth, Honor and loyalty = Light

 

Love = one up on light.

 

So the Jedi order are not the opposite so to speak there the middle ground, Love is the power that drives off hate. (You cannot love and hate the same person, they might annoy/irritate you but if you love them you can't hate them)

 

I think the only reason Love is "Forbidden to all accept a select few withing the order" Is because if you love is killed or "cheats" on you you might go over the edge.

 

But it works the other way too, You might be evil and give a crap about no one, But if you fall in Love it can soften you bringing you out of the dark into the light.

 

I suppose I can see why the Orders forbid love (Perticualy the dark side, Imagin all there sith warriors going soft ) But the Jedi could if they wanted to and put time into it, encourage it and end up with a huge army of Force users should things call for it.

 

I know I wouldn't want to kill a Force user who's whole 3,5 generation strong family are either force users or worse Jedi

 

Because love his selfish. Has a Jedi and a light sider you need and want to love everyone.

Actually Love is permitted because has a Jedi you need to be empathetic but not passionate.

 

You're a space hippies. Love and fear of losing Padme it what made Anakin turn dark side. He wanted to save the loved one with all his power. Force user aren't like 'normal' Human being. They drain on something dangerous that can turn them psycho. THey're much more concious than normality and can see echo of the future depending of their mood. Akanin had horrible vision because of his fear of losing a cherished one. Which made him mad.

[Wolfninjajedi]

I still don't see why people think Anakin's fall was instant, it happened over the course of the 3 movies. A person just doesn't fall to the darkside in a minute, it takes time for it to happen. Edited January 25, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi

[drfumblez]

I still don't see why people think Anakin's fall was instant, it happened over the course of the 3 movies.

 

Plus multiple games, a animated movie, and entire animated series, and even a few books.