Can you be a successful tank and be a Clicker?

[Manbropig]

The question I have is why would you be a clicker at all? It's slower, less-efficient, and it takes more effort to move the mouse around the screen and click stuff than it does to move your finger a few millimeters while your mouse is manaing camera/targeting.

 

I think that some people are clickers because they are bringing in skills and habits from other game types.

[Sixball]

Go Go HYBRID Clicker/Keybinders!

 

(Keybing my Oh Cr.ap buttons, click a few things i rarely use, and tab target fast as hell..)

[Subparhero]

Doesn't even matter in PvE.

At all.

Edited February 25, 2012 by Subparhero

[SalsaDMA]

Its the equivalent of using your arrow keys to aim in a fps such as MW3.

 

Even you should see the error of this statement.

 

If you can't, then whatever powers you may or may not believe in help you.

[Baraxis]

Anybody who says clicking is just as good as keybinding is lying or has a disability.

 

My disability is that I have better eye hand coordination then you...I feel so disabled.

[Elyons]

Thats ******** man. You can actually be much better as a clicker than with keymapping. We actual take in our guild just clickers because we have seen that keymappers always die first because they are so slow. They cant move properly or use theyre abilities as fast as clickers. Just keep clicking man. let losers talk.

 

You obviously are living in quite the fantasy world if you can actually say that with a straight face.

 

While I have nothing against clickers (and I find it extremely stupid that they would bench you because you are one) a good key binder can and will always be more efficient then a good clicker. Both are viable, but the key binder is surely the more responsive one.

 

A small example is me 2 years ago in Lotro. It was my first true Mmo and I naturally started out with clicking. I never had any issues and I was fairly decent at my play style.

 

After having some keybinding talks with my gamer buddy who's done Mmos for 8 years I decided to give it a shot with this game. At the beginning it was slightly difficult - however I eventually caught on - but wow! I was able to increase my attentiveness toward unexpected situations significantly.

 

Am I saying you need to keybind? Of course not. I do highly suggest you try to commit to learning it, you'll be surprised.

Edited February 26, 2012 by Elyons

[tronot]

My disability is that I have better eye hand coordination then you...I feel so disabled.

 

That doesn't even make sense. Keybinding requires hand-eye coordination.

[SalsaDMA]

That doesn't even make sense. Keybinding requires hand-eye coordination.

 

So you look down on the keyboard every time you need to hit a key while playing?

 

No wonder clicking is faster for some people...

[SalsaDMA]

You obviously are living in quite the fantasy world if you can actually say that with a straight face.

 

While I have nothing against clickers (and I find it extremely stupid that they would bench you because you are one) a good key binder can and will always be more efficient then a good clicker. Both are viable, but the key binder is surely the more responsive one.

 

A small example is me 2 years ago in Lotro. It was my first true Mmo and I naturally started out with clicking. I never had any issues and I was fairly decent at my play style.

 

After having some keybinding talks with my gamer buddy who's done Mmos for 8 years I decided to give it a shot with this game. At the beginning it was slightly difficult - however I eventually caught on - but wow! I was able to increase my attentiveness toward unexpected situations significantly.

 

Am I saying you need to keybind? Of course not. I do highly suggest you try to commit to learning it, you'll be surprised.

 

This reminded me of when I first got my Belkin n52te. I was used to playing WoW with a regular keyboard but wanted to try out eh n52te. I had to literally designate an alt I used it on, instead of my primary character, because I was so clumsy with it to start with. After I got used to it, though, I feel clumsy when I don't have access to it.

 

It's all a matter of routines, really.

[droidfood]

i have tanked all the hardmode ops (some nightmare) and flashpoints in this game and all the raids in wow as a tank clicker i have never had a single issue with threat, cooldowns, movement, or anything for that matter. its all just personal preference

[StarSoar]

Just figured I should repost this as people are still headhunting for the the OP's guild. You can find this post on page 12.

 

 

First off let me state that I am the Guildmaster of the guild the OP is in. I didn't come to post in this thread to bash him but I do want to clear the air of some misconceptions.

 

My guild runs two raid groups: One for Evening players and one for Latenight players. I raid leader the evening, Toogeloo is a member of the Latenight.

 

Toogeloo was not kicked, he was demoted.

 

He was not demoted because he was a clicker. He was demoted because the raid leaders were having issues with his tanking in phase 3 SOA.

 

Phase 3 Soa requires the tank to move Soa under a pillar that then falls on him and enables the raid to damage him. It is a very heavy movement fight that requires a large amount of attention to be on looking for pillars/knowing where lightning balls are/ adjusting Soa's position.

 

The raid leaders expressed concerns about his tanking to me. (specifically that part of the fight)

 

We talked to Toogeloo, found out the issue was probably related to his clicking, then demoted him. I personally talked to him and PM'd him some guides on keybinding. (Including your guide Taugrim!)

 

I'm sorry that Tooge feels that we demoted him due to his clicking. The REAL reason was his performance in raids perhaps we didn't make that clear enough.

 

I fear some of the posters in this thread got the wrong idea. We don't witch hunt out clickers and kick/demote them. (one of the other tanks in the Latenight raid is a clicker)

 

I hope this thread doesn't turn into a huge drama fest but I felt compelled to inform those who obviously didn't have all the information.

[vincent-]

This whole post has been silly to begin with unless you haven't been tanking or anything. Well than your a poor player if you have done your job and done it better than others.

 

Than no one should question your skill and if they do than they better back up their claim instead of some stupid notion that involves the word clicker.

[clearsighted]

You can be a successful Vanguard/PT tank as a clicker.

[grandmasterub]

So I've been continuing my attempt at keybinding. I have an alt at 20 that has been only keybound.

 

I have a question for the binders. How do you use abilities while strafing? If I'm strafing right I lose access to all my index finger hotkeys. I cansort of tweak my hand location but then I lose positioning and miskey ring finger binds. And I can't ctrl/alt for the modifier. Are you just supposed to minimize movement?

 

Its killin me in pvp. I feel much less able to respond to my opponent in pvp.

 

Also targeting sucks. You can't move and target.

[Toogeloo]

I wanted to pop in here and say that a month later, I have no issues with my leadership. I came and posted this topic kind of as a way to vent. The folks at my guild are nice people.

 

I personally feel as though they benched me prematurely, but I still get plenty of opportunities to raid and gear up, and I have more than made myself feel proud of my tanking abilities since being benched in my guild as I routinely run all the content (even if it's not always with my guild). I now have three 50s, each with Rakata gear.

 

 

A couple updates that I feel I should post...

 

First, my second level 50 was Assassin. I also tank with it, and I have actually discovered that I tank better with it. I am not certain if it's a class balance thing, or what, but I certainly hold agro better, position better, and all in all have more fun tanking with it. In tandem with this, I have moved my Juggernaut into a DPS capacity, and quite humorously, I have found that I actually enjoy DPSing with it far more than Tanking with it, as it is far more enjoyable and less stressful than Tanking (Assassin Tanking doesn't share the same stresses I had with Juggernaut Tanking either). The Raid Leaders have even recognized that I am a better tank on my Assassin than my Juggernaut, and I believe the niche style of the Assassin is what I needed. Just a few days ago, I tanked Nightmare KP flawlessly on my Assassin.

 

Secondly, and I know this might be something people are most curious about, but I have become a hybrid clicker. I attempted to full keybind for over a week, using the tools that my Guild Leader and some people here suggested, and even leveled a character from 1 to 23 on Keybinding only. I unfortunately found it far too uncomfortable to play, and since I don't PvP ever, felt that I was able to remove most of the keybinds I tried leveling with to a managable number. I now use 5 keybinds on a regular basis for necessary reaction abilities, and Tab Targeting, as well, as Target of Target (which I remapped to R). I still fumble on the keys and accidentally taunt when I don't mean to, or accidentally switch targets through Target of Target, but for the most part, it's been working for me.

 

 

 

Bottom line is, my guild is very hardcore, something I don't think I was fully prepared for, but I respect them, and they still enjoy playing the game with me. It's possible things could have been handled differently on both sides, but I feel it is well behind us at this point. As I have mentioned, I have adapted, and even found what works best for me, not just from clicking/keybinding, but the class I needed to be playing from the start. It's amazing how some classes you just do better with than others, as I have found out in my tanking with both the Juggernaut and the Assassin.

[savantus]

The difference between a CLICKER and someone who uses the Mouse + keybound buttons, is namely the amount of things they can DO at the same time. IF you click you can ONLY do one thing with the mouse at a time, VERSUS someone using a combination of mouse and keybindings. Now there really IS no way you can use the mouse to click a button AND use it to move the camera at the same time.

 

ARE you able to do the content being a clicker, answer yes.

Are there circumstances where being someone who uses both mouse and keybinds is superior to a clicker? Answer is yes.

 

So clearly this argument is stupid, since clickers want to change the question of whether or not clicking is just as good as using both mouse + keybinds which it clearly is NOT. Using both mouse + keybinds is faster, and allows for a wider range of activities than a "clicker" will ever be able to do.

Edited February 28, 2012 by savantus

[Usukane]

Keybinding doesn't make you a good player & clicking doesn't make you a bad player.

 

Being bad is what makes someone bad.

 

As for whether keybinding makes a good player better, yes it can - but it's abit herpy derp to say it's better for everybody in every single situation.

 

There is pretty much no point in even arguing this for most situations, pve especially.

Both approaches can move around & keep up with their global cooldowns without any trouble whatsoever if they aren't bad players. DPS, tanks & healers are all going to have a different experience clicking vs keybinding, also.

 

As for the question "Can you be a successful tank and be a Clicker" - of course you can. Just the same as you can be a totally epic fail keybind tank.

 

If you got pulled from tanking & you're a clicker, keybinding isn't going to turn you into Captain Supertank.

 

More than likely you just need to learn what you're doing, get comfortable with your tanking rotation & stay focused so you can move when it's required. Your guild leader putting it down to clicking is pretty lulstastic.

 

This argument however will never be settled, it's been going for years as it is.

 

Lots of people have gone to keybinding & love it & in some situations it gives you a noticeable edge, in other situations there's no noticeable difference at all. I'd suggest everybody at least try it, though.

 

There's no need to blindly defend clicking, just as there's no need to mindlessly say keybinding > clicking. There's a multitude of immensely skilled gamers out there, pve & pvp alike who click & 'pwn' keybinders all day long. Including loud mouthed ones who troll the forums.

 

The bottom line is, there's never going to be one solid answer so you should honestly do what you feel more comfortable with & ignore the trolls, but if you're asking you should at least give keybinding a go first before you settle & make your own mind up - it's you who has to play with the style you pick.

[tronot]

So you look down on the keyboard every time you need to hit a key while playing?

 

No wonder clicking is faster for some people...

 

You apparently have no idea what hand-eye coordination is.

[tronot]

So I've been continuing my attempt at keybinding. I have an alt at 20 that has been only keybound.

 

I have a question for the binders. How do you use abilities while strafing? If I'm strafing right I lose access to all my index finger hotkeys. I cansort of tweak my hand location but then I lose positioning and miskey ring finger binds. And I can't ctrl/alt for the modifier. Are you just supposed to minimize movement?

 

Its killin me in pvp. I feel much less able to respond to my opponent in pvp.

 

Also targeting sucks. You can't move and target.

 

Bind things to the num pad that you need to use while strafing

[subrosian]

I have a 3-strikes policy on clicking and back-peddling. Unbind your back button, use your mouse to move your character, bind your keys.

 

Does it matter? Yes, during progression it's huge. The difference between the "we could have gotten our Nightmare kill" and "we wiped" is often tiny, a few thousand HP on the boss, or a few millimeters out of AoE for a Tank who died. If they'd been just a bit faster, or done a bit more damage because they were better able to execute their rotation, move, and be aware, then we would have gotten the kill.

 

So absolutely. We also check if people used their medkits and adrenals, dying with your potion off CD is completely unacceptable.

 

-

 

Now I know what people who are clickers will say "hurk hurk you're hardcore elitists"... nope, actually we're casuals. We were 13/13H, 7/7H and currently 7/8H during Tier 11, 12 and 13 respectively in WoW, which we're quitting in a week... and we only raid 8 hours a week. How do you do that? Not waste people's time.

 

-

 

It's my belief that when you click what you're really saying is "I'm selfish". You don't care enough about the other people you play with to adjust your play style to one that is proven to be better in emergency situations. Not having to drag your mouse to a button makes you able to target and cast faster, period, it makes you able to precisely move, turn and hit abilities at the same time.

 

I take offense to people who want to waste my time by playing sub-optimally. I don't want to spend 15+ hours a week (whenever hard content is introduced, maybe in 1.2) doing something that we could get done in the first hour or two and then we can goof around and have fun. I don't want to wipe and pay repair bills because you stood there and got nailed because you spent an extra 3/10th of a second (yes, that matters) dragging your mouse to hit your emergency CD instead of just instantly hitting a button AND simultaneously moving.

[subrosian]

Bind things to the num pad that you need to use while strafing

 

Strafe should be on Q and E, your primary rotation keys should be on 1 - 5 and then use keys like R, F, S (remember you should unbind back) for CDs. You should be using your *mouse to move* so when you're not strafing, your mouse is 100% of your movement. Since even the most basic keyboard can handle 3 keys being hit simultaneously, and both Q/E can be hit with the middle finger, you can use your ring and index fingers to hit 1 ~ 5.

 

Assuming you're using chord binding, you can quite easily do something like "Q + Mouse Click" for a strafe and target while simultaneously hitting Shift + 4 to throw an instant, for example. A clicker could not simultaneously target, cast and strafe.

[reuterrat]

I click my tank timers (2+ minute CDs) and Medpacs and Relics. Also various AOE attacks with DPS.

 

I do this knowing that keybinding is way more effective, but once I get outside of the 1-5, r, t, f keys, things start to get messy when it comes to remembering what is what, so I just use it for stuff I shouldn't have to do often.

 

 

FYI, using the mouse for shifting the camera, strafing, and kiting is far superior to any other method (of which I am unaware).

[Tallyhoe]

I wanna see you heal as a clicker personally.

[LessQQMorePewPew]

I am a clicker with a Naga for my first hotbar and tank HM EV and HM KP just fine. All my taunts intterupts stuns and a few others are clicked.

[highstandard]

clicking makes you react slower. Its a fact. If you want to do high end pvp or pve you will struggle as a clicker. Especially in pvp, you will be made to look like a fool.