Sorcerer Nerf....

[swooshien]

Oh ok so it was my imagination that you started the whole dunno how to play thing. gotcha.

 

Anyway the point is bad sorcs die easy, good ones will not die in 1v1. there is just too many tools for mitigation and or escape.

 

I am not in any way saying sorcs need a nerf. Some adjustment, sure. But not a nerf. Don't assume, it just causes needless confrontation.

 

ok following situation...im charging a sorc and instantly force crush him, he probably pushes me away and then tries to force run away or something, or whirwinds me and runs away, in any case ill just escape, force push, hes down again, force charge again, smash, and hes dead. no matter what he does. explain how this situation can be any different?

[Numerii]

3/17/21 brother, that's how you roll solo:

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#201RZfc0MdMbZcMdRsrk.1

 

Can't wait to finally hit 50 and get some gear. ATM I do pretty well but I'm still squishy at level 40 with 11 expertise. I can imagine it is pretty godlike at 50 with Champ or BM gear though.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Numerii

[Kelticfury]

ok following situation...im charging a sorc and instantly force crush him, he probably pushes me away and then tries to force run away or something, or whirwinds me and runs away, in any case ill just escape, force push, hes down again, force charge again, smash, and hes dead. no matter what he does. explain how this situation can be any different?

 

Oh I wouldn't dare try to prove you wrong, you are obviously some sort of pvp god with the luck of the gods on your side since nothing ever goes any different for you. I couldn't possibly imagine a scenario where you get pushed back with a lovely electrocharged stun attached, and when you break that you couldn't possibly ever be hit with a 4 second stun after you blow your cc breaker, allowing that super lucky sorceror to forcespeed out of your range. Nope, everything falls like dominoes before your might and only a fool would contradict you.

[Numerii]

I've been leveling a Sage myself as an alt. About to hit level 38, almost strictly through PvP. And I've faced many Sorcerers in 50's brackets, or even just level 50 Sorcs before the patch in warzones. From what I've gathered:

 

The reason most people are getting rolled by Sages/Sorcs is because of their play style. Start paying attention to how the "better" Sages are positioning themselves, and how they react to being attacked.

 

The better ones are ALWAYS as close to a LoS point as possible while they cast, and try position themselves next to that pillar so that their target is one of the only people who can see them. If they see any damage tick away at them, they immediately LoS and figure out where it came from. If the damage doesn't keep ticking, we return to free-casting in our original position.

 

If someone targets us, we always put ourselves in the better position. Closer to pillars, etc. We have dots and a couple instant casts, so we can afford to duck in and out of LoS. Most people have trouble hunting down Sages because their situational awareness isn't that great tbh. The crazy squishiness of our class has forced us to always be looking at how to put ourselves in the best spot possible.

 

I understand melee don't have the luxury of "positioning", but hey. This is just what I've noticed being the biggest issue so far.

 

I agree with this. When I PvP in WZs I basically run as soon as someone starts to attack me, you can't sit there and tank them(at least sub-50 with good gear). You get your instants on people and lightning force as much as possible but the second someone focuses you, you kite them, else you die. LoS healing is a must too.

[AlterEgg]

ok following situation...im charging a sorc and instantly force crush him, he probably pushes me away and then tries to force run away or something, or whirwinds me and runs away, in any case ill just escape, force push, hes down again, force charge again, smash, and hes dead. no matter what he does. explain how this situation can be any different?

 

You can say all you want (Jugg who benefits from the sorc***cough***) The fact is I never see a jugg top the scoreboard EVER.. what do I see? The five Sorcs that I just fought lol, so again you can claim your amazing all your want the leader boards speak volumes..

[ArchAUstin]

you assert that sorc is overpowered and needs to be nerfed. im telling you this is not the case.

 

If you dont think sorc is overpowered then you are delusional my friend, there is a reason 20% of people play them when there is 8 classes.

 

Two reasons that should be assessed before nerfing a class.

 

1.) Is the class overpowered?

 

2.) Is the class overpopulation?

 

The answer to both of those is a HUGE yes and any non-sorc will agree.

 

EDIT: Most sorcs also agree (like me).

Edited January 26, 2012 by ArchAUstin

[swooshien]

Oh I wouldn't dare try to prove you wrong, you are obviously some sort of pvp god with the luck of the gods on your side since nothing ever goes any different for you. I couldn't possibly imagine a scenario where you get pushed back with a lovely electrocharged stun attached, and when you break that you couldn't possibly ever be hit with a 4 second stun after you blow your cc breaker, allowing that super lucky sorceror to forcespeed out of your range. Nope, everything falls like dominoes before your might and only a fool would contradict you.

 

only that escape doesnt activate my GCD so i can instantly push, while you have to wait for your GCD to activate your 4 sec stun, so my force push will always land first, knock you down for 2 secs, while i charge you again and then smash you to death. well if you manage to escape after the push, and then instantly 4 sec stun me after i charged you, you are bound to the ground for 3 seconds, while you can do a little dmg to me, but you cant run away, then you have 1 second to run, not enough time to get enough range away from my obliterate, which takes me right into your range for my smash to kill you.

[swooshien]

You can say all you want (Jugg who benefits from the sorc***cough***) The fact is I never see a jugg top the scoreboard EVER.. what do I see? The five Sorcs that I just fought lol, so again you can claim your amazing all your want the leader boards speak volumes..

 

topping the scoreboard in dmg means absolutely nothing. it just means youre playing wrong. you dont even get a medal for it, nothing. a juggernaut whos protecting people, scoring because he cant be killed and eats insanely amount of dmg, and burst dmgs the shiat out of ball holders or single targets at cannons is alot more important. any healer is more important. sorcs only often get high in dmg when they stand aside and chainspam their skilled single target spells and not getting focused. many other classes can do that, in fact powertechs can easily outdmg any sorc, even with inferior gear.

[Kelticfury]

only that escape doesnt activate my GCD so i can instantly push, while you have to wait for your GCD to activate your 4 sec stun, so my force push will always land first, knock you down for 2 secs, while i charge you again and then smash you to death. well if you manage to escape after the push, and then instantly 4 sec stun me after i charged you, you are bound to the ground for 3 seconds, while you can do a little dmg to me, but you cant run away, then you have 1 second to run, not enough time to get enough range away from my obliterate, which takes me right into your range for my smash to kill you.

 

So what you are saying is sorcs are fine and juggernaut is over powered. Ok I get it now.

[swooshien]

If you dont think sorc is overpowered then you are delusional my friend, there is a reason 20% of people play them when there is 8 classes.

 

Two reasons that should be assessed before nerfing a class.

 

1.) Is the class overpowered?

 

2.) Is the class overpopulation?

 

The answer to both of those is a HUGE yes and any non-sorc will agree.

 

EDIT: Most sorcs also agree (like me).

 

sorcs are maybe overpopulated, because its very easy to just spam a spell and at least do a little dmg, unlike a warrior or stealth class for example, where you have to do a little more work to do dmg. but class balance is only relevant for high-end pvp, not for casual players visiting a warzone once or twice a week and imagining some class-imbalances. and in high-end pvp, sorcs arent overpowered at all, and also they arent easy to play with at all. also in high end pvp sorcs arent overpopulated, they are underpopulated.

 

and im not a sorc and i dont agree with you, so your statement that any non-sorc will agree is simply wrong.

[swooshien]

So what you are saying is sorcs are fine and juggernaut is over powered. Ok I get it now.

 

no juggernauts are sorc killers, its fine this way. sorcs do way better against all other classes, and juggernauts have it alot harder versus other classes. you cant balance all classes that they are equally strong in any 1on1 situation. and noone wants that. but nerfing sorcs because alot of casual players see sorcs topping the dmg scoreboard is ridiculous.

[AlterEgg]

topping the scoreboard in dmg means absolutely nothing. it just means youre playing wrong. you dont even get a medal for it, nothing. a juggernaut whos protecting people, scoring because he cant be killed and eats insanely amount of dmg, and burst dmgs the shiat out of ball holders or single targets at cannons is alot more important. any healer is more important. sorcs only often get high in dmg when they stand aside and chainspam their skilled single target spells and not getting focused. many other classes can do that, in fact powertechs can easily outdmg any sorc, even with inferior gear.

 

Topping the scoreboard in kills, damage, and heals.. try again person who clearly doesnt know what he is talking about...

[swooshien]

Topping the scoreboard in kills, damage, and heals.. try again person who clearly doesnt know what he is talking about...

 

alright, captain "imgonnamakeclassbalanceafteriwatch5warzonescoreboards"

[Kelticfury]

Topping the scoreboard in kills, damage, and heals.. try again person who clearly doesnt know what he is talking about...

 

Thats just straight up impossible. unless its a fully geared and expertise 50 against naked lvl 10s pre bracket.

 

Sorcs have too much utility thats the only real problem I see with them.

[zaknaphein]

And here comes the nerfing series post. Grats, you started with OP/scounders and now every single class will follow ....leading this game to a disaster.

[swooshien]

Thats just straight up impossible. unless its a fully geared and expertise 50 against naked lvl 10s pre bracket.

 

Sorcs have too much utility thats the only real problem I see with them.

 

dont really see "too much" utility. maybe swap some surviability spell which is high in the skilltree with some utilityspell thats low in the skilltree, ok.

[Caelrie]

I don't think you understand what hybrid means.

 

My understanding of the word "hybrid" is the same as what the lead combat designer uses. It's YOURS that's incorrect.

[Caelrie]

^^^^^This.

 

 

Definition: Hybrid

 

This might help you

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3627/mmo_class_design_up_with_hybrids_.php

 

 

Also for a less thorough definition under Common types of classes:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Character_class

 

This might help you

 

http://torwars.com/2011/09/19/forum-bitz-zoeller-on-space-ports-respeccing-and-hybrids/

Edited January 26, 2012 by Caelrie

[_Morholt_]

+1 for OP.

 

Not because Sorcs 1v1 are hard at all to kill (pretty easy) but when you have 6+ of em in BGs and they all circle **** heal each other it's impossible to kill anything even when they aren't heal specced. Most BGs have at least 4 sorcs.

 

Pretty much the sole reason why the 30% pvp heal reduction was invented.....needs more!

 

Oh and I LOL at some sorcs that say 'if everything aligns or the other team is uber noob we get high numbers'............yet are the same ones crying about some geared 50 vs level 20s in greens..

 

Oh and another famous Sorc line->

 

'This thread is 700 posts long SO IT MUST BE TRUE' ahahaha

Edited January 26, 2012 by _Morholt_

[Edex]

Now before we even start i need to point out that I AM A SORCERER!!!!!!

 

Now i normally play PvE Corruption Spec, as i hate respecing all the time. Since the 1.1 Patch i found that healing in WZ's seem pointless, and extremely boring. As i normally get around 10 medals before the patch i find it extremely hard to break 6 (Inb4 "you are doing it wrong")

 

So i decided to switch to a hybrid spec Since we killed everything in the 1st 2 days of the week (GJ making Raids very easy, NM here we come ) Anyway my spec is 0/20/21

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#201ZccMRdMrZcrcRsMk.1

 

I have so Much utility it is absurd.

Knock back : Roots targets

Shield : Absorbs around 3000 Then when it breaks it blinds EVERYONE around you

Force speed : 20 sec CD making you nearly impossible to kill as you can get a way most of the time.

Whirlwind: Instant 10 sec CC. When it breaks it stuns for 2 seconds.

Heal : They heal for so much, for a dps tree (But i don't even use them that much due to being healed by damaging abilities.

 

The Utility would be fine if i didn't push out 400-600k of damage a game with 70-100k healing. I understand what people are thinking when they say nerf sorcs. There has to be a give and take. The only classes that HARD counter me are Ops which just got nerfed... and Bleed spec Marauders.

 

PVP Stats:

HP: 15810

WP: 1615

Expertise: 460 (9.62%)

Crit: 26.29%

Surge: 72.39%

Alacrity: 10.03%

Bonus Damage: 673.1

Bonus Healing: 484.8

 

 

Flame On!!!

 

I completely agree with you and have been saying that certain classes just have too much utility. Would not be so bad if you HAD to focus on a specific role, but giving a class the ability to be everything just makes it op, the fabled tankmagedruid.

[Acyu]

Against a half way decent team, sorcerers are like rag-dolls in a warzone. Tossed everywhere and unable to do much of anything at all.

[xkanne]

and you're not puttin gout 400k-600k a game with 70-100k healing. SCREEN SHOT POST 1.1 PLZ

 

There are players who make 1 mil+ healing . Read forums. Healing Sorc need to be tuned down.

GOOD Healer cant be killed by single DPS class somtimes even 2 or 3.

 

Utility of this class also is beyond doubt... (like all in one).

Edited January 26, 2012 by xkanne

[Maccgyver]

The only trouble with nerfing sorcerers is that they'll probably change the base class rather than the sorc spec and kill assassins at the same time, and I feel assassins are pretty well balanced at the moment.

[NecrisTEWQ]

All this talk about how sorcs are OP but as I said about 10 odd pages ago, I still haven't seen any video at all of a sorc dominating PVP the way people complain.

 

GIVE ME PROOF - not an endgame screenshot that says nothing about how he/she played, or if they sat in a corner away from the 30% debuff and healed themselves, but a video of a game where the sorc is this god of a class that is unbeatable. And you know what I won't, because you cant.....

 

Your just all cranky that your free kill can run away from you - making you actually have to something other than standing there spamming whatever skill you spam.

[Acyu]

There are players who make 1 mil+ healing . Read forums. Healing Sorc need to be tuned down.

GOOD Healer cant be killed by single DPS class somtimes even 2 or 3.

 

Utility of this class also is beyond doubt... (like all in one).

 

you have no clue how healers work huh.

 

If a healer can be 1v1'd, then something is wrong.

 

There would be absolutely no point to play a healer if DPS can 1v1 and kill a healer.

 

A good healer, by their design, should be able to keep themselves and 1 or 2 others alive depending on who is on them.

 

A good dps will be able to lock any healer down and force that healer to focus the vast majority of their heals on himself.

 

Two good dps will kill any healer.

 

And if 3 people can't kill a healer, it's L2P issue.