So is this it?

[Hethroin]

For the last time,

 

This was a hypothetical, I'm full champ gear at valor rank 54.

 

I was trying to point out that there is no real competition in this game and PvP is ALREADY dull.

 

There are currently a TON of people that are level 50 right now. In no way did I "rush to 50". I happen to have a full time job, I exercise daily, a social life, and yes other hobbies (no this life style is not impressive, I just state it to point out that my life is pretty ordinary and has balance). I actually took about 3 weeks to hit 50 and I did a lot of PvP along the way, while enjoying the great story and questing. Essentially I was trying to make the most of the leveling experience.

 

But here's the real problem with the end game PvP content. There are no meaningful titles, no rankings, no arena, a poor system of gear distribution, and they already had a huge blunder with their joke of a world PvP zone. However, if you enjoy a worthless, mindless grind then you can play 3 generic Warzones that you've been playing since lvl 10.

 

I'm sort of a glutton when it comes to MMOs. I was in the first wave of 50s on Mind Trick, it was later discovered that 24/7 Hutt Ball was something that could get old fast (GUESS WHAT FACTION I ROLLED). I was valor rank 56 when we rerolled republic on Pot5, now my shadow there is valor 55. This thing your guys call "valor grind" I call "laughably easy". I don't consider myself special, or better, than anyone I just don't think the time invested in getting to "max level" isn't anywhere near what it was in previous MMOs.

 

I want to bring you all back to DAOC where after getting 50 you were realm rank 1-4 for months, and then realm rank 5 for equally as long... and that's with 10 realm ranks in the game. There was so many concepts that were right with that game that somehow did not make it into this one.

[Ravenolf]

I never thought Bioware was going to deliver a world pvp experience with depth at launch. Not that we shouldn't have had those expectations. This was always a PVE centric game, wiith a growing development team to bring the PVP side in line.

 

3 WZ and Ilum as it is now is a fraction of what the true potential is. We know that, and I think Bioware knows that too. It just was not prioritized for launch. To retain all the pvp players, they need to get it moving, and start sharing the direction they are taking it.

[Berinima]

Give them time to actually give you decent content, rather than rushing a half-arsed product.

 

So... This is still beta? They haven't released a half-arsed product? I am glad you mentioned that I really thought they are already charging money for it.

[Hethroin]

Who are you?

Who are YOU?

[DarthOvertone]

....so.... is there anything else to do in this game?

 

PvE? FP HMs...Ops...Daily Heroics. The endgame PvE is actually quite challenging and fun. Granted, it is somewhat buggy in parts, but it's still a good time.

 

Honestly, anyone that plays this game just to PvP is a total fool. There is no overall PvP objective to endgame. All it is currently is a gear and Valor rank grind. I don't see how anyone could be satisfied with just doing that in this game. There are much better games out there for you just to PvP if that's your schtick. Not saying this to troll. It's simply the reality of the situation. Trying to make this game be something that it is not will just cause you consternation.

[Mhak]

I lol so hard at the people here with the argument of "OP you played too fast."

 

Yeah god forbid someone like a game so much that they play a lot of it. Tell me, what's *your* estimate of proper time allotment that everybody should abide by when playing a game they like? Your opinion is clearly correct and the only viable one, otherwise you wouldn't be mocking people for playing more than you.

 

So I want to hear some estimates. Go ahead you Marshals of the MMO Game-Time Allotment Bureau. Coming from a rank 48 Powertech with 600 expertise, I'm afraid I may have broken your laws on playing too much (or possibly too little?) and I want your input how I should be spending MY PERSONAL TIME playing the game I PURCHASED WITH MY MONEY.

 

People these days are so unthinkingly self-righteous it's astounding.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Mhak

[Hethroin]

I lol so hard at the people here with the argument of "OP you played too fast."

 

Yeah god forbid someone like a game so much that they play a lot of it. Tell me, what's *your* estimate of proper time allotment that everybody should abide by when playing a game they like? Your opinion is clearly correct and the only viable one, otherwise you wouldn't be mocking people for playing more than you.

 

So I want to hear some estimates. Go ahead you Marshals of the MMO Game-Time Allotment Bureau. Coming from a rank 48 Powertech with 600 expertise, I'm afraid I may have broken your laws on playing too much (or possibly too little?) and I want your input how I should be spending MY PERSONAL TIME playing the game I PURCHASED WITH MY MONEY.

 

People these days are so unthinkingly self-righteous it's astounding.

 

Too little to be "good", too much to "have a life".

[Bandlero]

Well part of the problem is what to make?

It isnt just PvP it is to somehow make a vibrant active community in the MMO where people are doing things and interacting with eachother,grinding creates frustration for players because there is have and have not's and repetition kills motivation.

 

Then there is achievement,in EQ2 in the early first year a lvl 50 you knew that person spent some time getting there plus the gear if they raided,it was no easy task to get your end game raid gear of the current time,same could be said with the crafting.

 

One thing that killed community in that game was guild halls,people had little incentive to be in the citys,if Bioware is smart they will use the Fleet stations and some citys as center hubs for many things,the cantinas are a great place to.

 

And raid wise the need to have special bosses that appear for a set time and very rare drops so that those who put the time and effort are justly rewarded,same with PvP there should be neat appearance stuff for those that accomplish things that do take time and effort.

 

Agree with everything you're saying. To be honest, I think if they scrapped Ilum and introduced "Frontiers" (that would work with star wars wouldn't it? lol) we'd have a much better open pvp and pvp community area. Make the fleet the gate to these "frontiers" where you take a shuttle specifically to the area and not your own ship. I'm seeing something very similar to how DAoC had it, in my mind. And, only use the WZs for lowbies and to help level up pvp until 50, and then make PvP for 50s only in the "frontiers."

 

And yea, removing gear, titles, etc would just hurt things more. You get to know other active pvp'ers, who's good, etc. Incentives and rewards are important - it shows who's put the time and effort into it and might actually be good. Perhaps ranked matches isn't what they should be adding, but adding Realm Ranks - maybe those would just grant a special title, maybe more.

[NuWyrldDave]

The OP has a great point in that Ilum sucks and is totally pointless. The zone is too huge for the number of players in it to begin with. You can drive around for an hour and never see an enemy player. Also there are no objectives to make people leave the base. Sure you get bonus points for kills depending on how many locations your faction controlls, but other than that there is nothing to capture or guard. I find more PvP action if I just go to the other faction's questing area and look for someone to harass.

 

With 3 WZs they do get repetitious very fast, but I can wait for new content to be added. Ilum is supposed to be World PvP, but without any point or objectives it's just a circle jerk until someone happens to come along.

[Bandlero]

Do you enjoy killing other players? Then yes, there's plenty of end-game.

 

Yes, TOR has its issues but Bioware is working on them. They've already made announcements of future updates and from what we've seen so far, they're pretty good at delivering on what they say.

 

 

 

Also, the game's been out for a month. Give them time to actually give you decent content, rather than rushing a half-arsed product.

 

I have 0 issues atm - and I would rather them spend 6 months to introduce good content instead of the rushed content they're about to give us. Yes new games do have issues, I am personally understanding of that and okay with it.

[Empha]

I lol so hard at the people here with the argument of "OP you played too fast."

 

Yeah god forbid someone like a game so much that they play a lot of it. Tell me, what's *your* estimate of proper time allotment that everybody should abide by when playing a game they like? Your opinion is clearly correct and the only viable one, otherwise you wouldn't be mocking people for playing more than you.

 

So I want to hear some estimates. Go ahead you Marshals of the MMO Game-Time Allotment Bureau. Coming from a rank 48 Powertech with 600 expertise, I'm afraid I may have broken your laws on playing too much (or possibly too little?) and I want your input how I should be spending MY PERSONAL TIME playing the game I PURCHASED WITH MY MONEY. OP clearly broke your laws by playing too much, am I in danger of breaking those laws as well? What about somebody who's only rank 30? I want more info on your absurd sense of how much people should be playing.

 

People these days are so unthinkingly self-righteous it's astounding.

 

roll an alt or try on PvE when you; A) get/got bored of PvP or B) You think that there is nothing more to accomplish in PvP.

 

There are ofc alot more factors (some that I dont know about) but I think that these are the one OP got a problem with.

[Mhak]

roll an alt or try on PvE when you; A) get/got bored of PvP or B) You think that there is nothing more to accomplish in PvP.

 

There are ofc alot more factors (some that I dont know about) but I think that these are the one OP got a problem with.

 

In case you...somehow...missed it...my post was rhetorical in nature.

 

I was mocking the people here who think that they alone know the proper amount of time to be played on an MMO, and anybody who oversteps their subjectively perceived notions how much somebody should be gaming like OP are playing "too much."

 

The point OP has is a valid one - a lack of endgame content which is depressing. The argument some people countered that point with was "Well you shouldn't have played fast enough to get to endgame already...you should have dragged out the process and been depressed at the lack of endgame content at a later date." Even your suggestion is absurd - "Just play alts because there's no good endgame PvP content." These arguments are completely absurd on multiple levels.

 

Is asking to have a fulfilling endgame experience on the main class we enjoy asking too much of an AAA title MMO with the largest MMO budget in history these days? REALLY?!

Edited January 24, 2012 by Mhak

[Bandlero]

PvE? FP HMs...Ops...Daily Heroics. The endgame PvE is actually quite challenging and fun. Granted, it is somewhat buggy in parts, but it's still a good time.

 

Honestly, anyone that plays this game just to PvP is a total fool. There is no overall PvP objective to endgame. All it is currently is a gear and Valor rank grind. I don't see how anyone could be satisfied with just doing that in this game. There are much better games out there for you just to PvP if that's your schtick. Not saying this to troll. It's simply the reality of the situation. Trying to make this game be something that it is not will just cause you consternation.

 

Why are PvP'ers fools? Why shouldn't PvP also be the end-point of a game? Why should MMOs be solely PvE-centric?

 

Used to be in the old days (maybe before you started playing MMOs) that end-game wasn't PvE, but it was PvP. WoW really enforced the standard that PvE should be end-game, and tbh, I personally would like this game to stop being so WoW-like. Bad enough we're now getting ranked PvP - what's next, rank only gear too?

[Ravenolf]

Who are YOU?

 

you said you were famous or infamous on your server, was wondering what server and character.

 

Who am I? A PVP noob, so no one cares.

[Bandlero]

you said you were famous or infamous on your server, was wondering what server and character.

 

Who am I? A PVP noob, so no one cares.

 

I'm curious who is now too. I'm on Mind Trick, but I play who my forum name is. Is he Acid, Vsai, or one of our other PvP regs - or is he the only publet we have - that grav round spammer? lol

[Dirtydurst]

Yes, but I can make that fast food last as long as a four-course meal, or devour that four-course meal in the fastest humanly possible time.

 

The point is, in an MMO, no matter how much you give people, there will ALWAYS be a small part of the player-base that rushes through everything and then pertains to whine when a good 70% (guessing here, but I know its in the majority) aren't even max level yet.

 

Also, to the OP:

 

What do you expect them to do? There's only so much they can do in so much time.

 

Take PvE for example. What happens when someone has the BiS PvE gear, and their entire team has BiS? Oh, right, they have to wait for the next PvE update.

 

Just like PvPers have to wait for the next PvP update to get our new goodies.

 

Welcome to MMOs.

 

According to your sig you have 3 lvl 50s already? ***?

[Hethroin]

you said you were famous or infamous on your server, was wondering what server and character.

 

Who am I? A PVP noob, so no one cares.

 

I was being ironic. No one in this game is famous. There is only so much you can do when you're restricted to 1.5 sec GCD, and off GCD abilities that choose to go off about 50% of the time. I play republic on Prophecy of Five where we have reached a point that all it takes is a 2-cap on Alderaan to reduce our 8-man to a 4-man. Everyone wants to get the easy win and doesn't want to work for it. That was the joke "my own team leaves...".

[DNA_Cowboy]

REALLY?!

 

Playing too much, I can't rightly speak to. Taking things way too seriously, however...

[Selixx]

Is asking to have a fulfilling endgame experience on the main class we enjoy asking too much of an AAA title MMO with the largest MMO budget in history these days? REALLY?!

 

What do you define as a fulfilling endgame experience? I enjoy pvping against other level 50s solo, and in a group, a fulfilling experience. Competition in and of itself is fulfilling.

Perhaps a ranking system and some tournaments would be good, but you can't expect to have everything day 1.

[likwidtek]

I'm so happy I don't treat MMOs as my career.

 

heh. Seriously.

[DarthOvertone]

Why are PvP'ers fools? Why shouldn't PvP also be the end-point of a game? Why should MMOs be solely PvE-centric?

 

PvPers aren't fools. Someone who picked up a PvE game with PvP in it, expecting it to be a total PvP game is a fool. When I purchased SWTOR, I knew it was a PvE game with PvP added on. I didn't expect to progress through the game only doing PvP. I also didn't expect the PvP endgame to hold up on its own as the be-all, end-all either. I was actually surprised that peeps were able to level exclusively through WZs so easily (although that has been nerfed).

 

That's not to say we shouldn't hold BW to a high standard and give them feedback on how to improve the PvP in the game. I also think it's reasonable to expect there to be a solid and worthwhile PvP endgame. Right now there is a PvP endgame and it's a Gear and Valor grind. The OP is complaining about this and doesn't like it, but I'm not sure what he expected when he picked the game up. Maybe one day it will get to the point where people actually consider this a legit PvP game, but right now it's a long way off.

 

Regarding your second question, I don't know the answer. No company has figured it out. Aion, Darkfall, Warhammer...all of them tried to be PvP-centric games. Didn't quite work did it? Sure the games are still chugging along, but their subscriber bases pale in comparison to WoW, which is a more PvE centric game and is a behemoth in comparison. I'm sure, one day, someone will figure it out. At this point, nobody has.

[Mhak]

What do you define as a fulfilling endgame experience? I enjoy pvping against other level 50s solo, and in a group, a fulfilling experience. Competition in and of itself is fulfilling.

Perhaps a ranking system and some tournaments would be good, but you can't expect to have everything day 1.

 

You're overstating my requests. I'm not asking for "everything." But here's what I can do at endgame -

 

-Raid EV. Cleared it on HM already. Easy. Everybody has nearly all the gear they require from it already doing it once a week. So scratch that.

 

-Raid KP. Cleared on normal, will be cleared on HM by next week with 100% certainty. A couple more weeks after that, everybody will have everything they require from it. So scratch that very shortly.

 

- PvP. There are 3 WZs, and a single open world zone which is 100% broken. One of the WZs, the least fun, is also the most commonly played. The other 2, when played hundreds of times in a pre-made of 3 other skilled players that you win with 90% certainty every match, get old very quickly.

 

I have beaten this game already. It's over, essentially. I won. I'm not asking for anything more specific than things to keep players like me occupied for the $15 monthly fee we pay. There are a LOT of players like me and speaking for me at least, I am in no way, shape or form a power gamer, I play a couple hours a day at most, 3-4 hours on raid days of which there are 2 a week and don't log in every day.

 

Empirically there is very little fulfilling endgame content. I payed and am continuing to pay money for this game until I get bored. Then I will leave. This is a problem very many players are facing, and unless we have things to do we'll get bored and take our subscription elsewhere. This isn't a threat, it's business. Nobody wants to pay for something we get no enjoyment out of. I want to enjoy this game...but it's lacking severely.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Mhak

[Berinima]

Empirically there is very little fulfilling endgame content. I payed and am continuing to pay money for this game until I get bored. Then I will leave. This is a problem very many players are facing, and unless we have things to do we'll get bored and take our subscription elsewhere. This isn't a threat, it's business. Nobody wants to pay for something we get no enjoyment out of. I want to enjoy this game...but it's lacking severely.

 

That's the point. Of course the game is one month on the market. But hey, it has been in development for like five years and the costs were about 300 million dollars. Knowing that we can expect a bit more than this.

[Xontier]

According to your sig you have 3 lvl 50s already? ***?

 

Yes, I do. About 4-5 days /played to hit 50, and the games been out for a month now. It's not that difficult to do. That's not to say they're all battlemaster in full gear, but they're still 50. I'm actually working on a fourth at about level 34 right now, also.

 

 

So... This is still beta? They haven't released a half-arsed product? I am glad you mentioned that I really thought they are already charging money for it.

 

Please tell me how this is a beta? We have a deep leveling path, a decent end-game content for a new release of an MMO, and while there ARE issues, they're working diligently to fix them. Already we've seen very nice progress by Bioware, and while they haven't gotten everything right, they're at least trying.

 

Oh wait, you mean that they're still going to be releasing new content and that end-game isn't finished? I guess that means even WoW is still in beta 7 years after its "release".

 

See how foolish that logic is?

Edited January 25, 2012 by Xontier