Xcore Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) Im not trying to attack you...Im really not. You are frustrating to no end -- to that I can admit. But it is a bit annoying when people throw there opinions around like they are facts. You have stated very, very few facts in your threads. You make huge leaps in logic to come up with illogical conclusions. I will admit you have spent an enormous amount of time on this "project" and have convinced a few people of your point of view. All im saying is understand that just because you believe something to be all inclusive, and factual, it isn't. You have the right to you opnion, and I do respect that right. I m heading back in the game now. I need to hit level 50 to see if I can notice your delay. I'll be back later. Take care. lol you continue to claim flaws in logic but fail to understand yourself that a "claim to a flaw" is completely irrelevant without any deconstruction or showcasing proof... I've showcased everything I claimed in both Video and through the help of the community... there is simply no flaw in my logic or my claims here. When I state an opinion I say so, when I state a fact I do so with provided evidence as well as/or backup through logic.... Once again, you have "zero" supporters here for a reason, you should really re-evaluate your standpoint... for your own sake. Every single person following the threadline can see your quite obviously and blatant vendetta here... Edited January 27, 2012 by Xcore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traumahawk Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) Im not trying to attack you...Im really not. You are frustrating to no end -- to that I can admit. But it is a bit annoying when people throw there opinions around like they are facts. You have stated very, very few facts in your threads. You make huge leaps in logic to come up with illogical conclusions. I will admit you have spent an enormous amount of time on this "project" and have convinced a few people of your point of view. All im saying is understand that just because you believe something to be all inclusive, and factual, it isn't. You have the right to you opnion, and I do respect that right. I m heading back in the game now. I need to hit level 50 to see if I can notice your delay. I'll be back later. Take care. You are either way out of your league (which isn't saying much for a PC MMO) or you are purposefully trying to incite people. Your post offends true reason and discourse. After spending months on this forum, however, I am convinced that a large majority of this community actually thinks exactly like you do. Absolute denial or blindness to glaring technical and content issues. Edited January 27, 2012 by Traumahawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klarick Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) I don't see why you continue to post here if you don't have the problem and don't intend to contribute any real input that's valuable to solving it. One more post...then back to the game. But I need to reply to this. I do believe that the developers need to know that it doesn't happen to everyone. When troubleshooting any issue it is good to know what happens, when it happens, how often it happens, and in this case, to how many people are having the issue. So yes, my input and many others, stating we are not having the issue is important. I also don't have the other issues that some people are having such as: 1. Video Problems 2. Sound Problems 3. Lag 4. Loading Issues All these are issues they are currently working on along with your delay issue. The point is that not everyone has these issues. Some have -- Some have not. Xcore originally went all out and with vigor attacked the HERO engine. He was sure the delay issue was not fixable because it was inherent to the HERO engine. In fact he went on to say that he had had-enough and was unsubbing. The last patch change is mind of course. The problem is not inherent to the game engine. Those of us that know gaming and know this engine knew it was not a problem with HERO. You see that's my problem. He started out attacking the game engine and was stating his opinion as a fact like he was an expert. It was never a fact and he is far from an expert on the HERO gaming engine. Edited January 27, 2012 by Klarick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xcore Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 Xcore originally went all out and with vigor attacked the HERO engine. He was sure the delay issue was not fixable because it was inherent to the HERO engine. In fact he went on to say that he had had-enough and was unsubbing. The last patch change is mind of course. The problem is not inherent to the game engine. Those of us that know gaming and know this engine knew it was not a problem with HERO. You see that's my problem. He started out attacking the game engine and was stating his opinion as a fact like he was an expert. It was never a fact and he is far from an expert on the HERO gaming engine. Bioware has never helped us understand the problem, since Thread 1 we've tried to evolve our understanding of the issue and the Hero Engine was an obvious point of discussion, at the time it was a very attractive target as well due to "correct" logical conclusions... However, IF YOU WOULD'VE SEEN THE VIDEO I CREATED, within 3 minutes I state that it is not in fact the Hero Engine. This means, I have "evolved" my understanding and adapted my claims to suit the "truth"... something you are incapable of... Yes your client and game does follow the exact same issues, yes you are incapable of recognizing them... this is quite the fact btw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traumahawk Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Those of us that know gaming and know this engine knew it was not a problem with HERO. You see that's my problem. He started out attacking the game engine and was stating his opinion as a fact like he was an expert. It was never a fact and he is far from an expert on the HERO gaming engine. Out of fairness, may I ask what your credentials are in reference to "knowing the HERO engine" and "knowing gaming"? Also, obviously if you knew it wasn't the engine, then you must know the true source of the problem. Is it client-side or server-side? What's really happening when abilities are locked-out or don't mesh with the actual animation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDozen Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Klarick, They already know not everyone is affected, or at least to the point of it being noticed. You are not helping with your continued crusade against Xcore. The Devs are capable of sorting opinions from facts on their own. This is just personal with you and it's obstructive now. You should move on because you're not affected. That's my last post to you on this, I hope you do the right thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putok Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 One more post...then back to the game. But I need to reply to this. I do believe that the devlopers need to know that it doesn;t happen to everyone. When troubleshooting any issue it is good to know what happens, when it happens, how often it happens, and in this case, to how many people are having the issue. So yes, my input and many others, stating we are not having the issue is important. I also don't have th eother issues that some people are having. such as: 1. Video Problems 2. Sound Problems 3. Lag 4. Loading Issues All these are issues they are currently working on along with your delay issue. The point is that not everyone has these issues. Some have -- Some have not. Xcore originally went all out and with vigor attacked the HERO engine. He was sure the delay issue was not fixable because it was inherent to the HERO engine. In fact he went on to say that he had had-enough and was unsubbing. The last patch change is mind of course. The problem is not inherent to the game engine. Those of us that know gaming and know this engine knew it was not a problem with HERO. You see that's my problem. He started out attacking the game engine and was stating his opinion as a fact like he was an expert. It was never a fact and he is far from an expert on the HERO gaming engine. Every single player of competence that I know personally has experienced the delay issue, so I have a difficult time believing that it isn't universal. I have no doubts that the severity of the issue varies, I've seen that myself, but I have an extraordinarily difficult time believe that anyone experiences combat as fluid or responsive as WoW, with no delay, no stuttering, failure to respond, casting bar/GCD errors, etc. As for the other stuff, he admitted that he was wrong, so I don't see why you need to dwell on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenStarkill Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 It was inevitable to get haters. Let's look at this logically. 10 people using the same exact computer specs have a conversation with the devs about how combat feels in the game. 5 of them say it feels great, smooth, etc. The other 5 say it feels smooth at times and other times it feels clunky and unresponsive, or abilities pretend to channel but don't actually fire. From a logical standpoint who do the devs listen to? It's the 5 who found problems. Why? Because it is more likely that 5 simply didn't notice issues than that 5 people are making it up. In this regard I think we can begin to see that maybe, just maybe, those of us who do claim we have an issue aren't just making it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carkenjoe Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I've been having this conversation with a bunch of my friends who play swtor and all came from WoW. I was happy to see that this issue is being looked at here. What my friends and i have been saying for awhile now is that Swtor has lots going for it, namely story and character development, but that the main reason we will be going back to WoW is the feel of the combat. This delay is one of the only reasons we would be leaving this game, and I really hope that this effort succeeds and results in fluid combat that is vital to any kind of pvp and long term enjoyment of pursuing questing and story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traumahawk Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) Okay, let's put the Klarick issue to rest: Edit: I encourage people to view the aforementioned poster's profile and see all the posts that were originally authored by him. Are these typical posting patterns for a "regular" fan of the game? They seem a bit contrived, suspiciously timed and oddly antithetical to every legitimate issue brought up on the forums. I'm starting to believe Klarick knows the Hero engine all too well... We are fall to the lure of pettiness at times, but I couldn't help myself--even if I suffer an infraction. Edited January 27, 2012 by Traumahawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xcore Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 Okay, let's put the Klarick issue to rest: http://www.swtor.com/community/search.php?searchid=558041&pp=25 Are these typical posting patterns for a "regular" fan of the game? They seem a bit contrived, suspiciously timed and oddly antithetical to every legitimate issue brought up on the forums. I'm starting to believe Klarick knows the Hero engine all too well... Though I already know what to expect from that link... and Klarick for that matter (wish the moderation of the forums would too but oh well). The link doesn't work for me. I get this message: Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traumahawk Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) Though I already know what to expect from that link... and Klarick for that matter (wish the moderation of the forums would too but oh well). The link doesn't work for me. I get this message: Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms. It's just looking at the poster's OPs. I don't want to make a huge deal of it, but it reminds me of well-placed PR/Marketing blurbs. Anyway, keep up the good work xCore--putting observable evidence out for community ingestion always helps drive the point home and build credibility. Edited January 27, 2012 by Traumahawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xcore Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 It's just looking at the poster's OPs. I don't want to make a huge deal of it, but it reminds me of well-placed PR/Marketing blurbs. Anyway, keep up the good work xCore--putting observable evidence out for community ingestion always helps drive the point home and build credibility. I am already preparing for another video analysis "after" the next patch which they have mentioned will continue to improve this issue (I don't see a point in continuing videos etc until we see what the next patch has in store for this issue). I am re-charging my energy for the next video so to speak Thanks for the support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eighthook Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) 6) You are unable to experience the issue because your playstyle is likely not affected by it, this is why "most people" do not experience it, because "most people" are clickers and casual players who something like this would not bother. As far as this goes, I guess you could call me casual as I am a clicker, but I still see this issue even while clicking. So I don't see how anyone could think it doesn't exist. Edited January 27, 2012 by Eighthook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbiggggy Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 can still feel the delay on the ptr dont even care cause this game will be f2p in a month or so anyways damnit ea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xcore Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) As far as this goes, I guess you could call me casual as I am a clicker, but I still see this issue even while clicking. So I don't see how anyone could think it doesn't exist. I'm not saying that a casual player or even a clicker would not be able to notice it, we've had plenty so far in the threadline. There are some "very" good posts by very casual players in the threadline (and OP) noting the issues. It is simply a lesser likelihood that the tolerances of casuals and clickers are so low as to notice these issues. Obviously, your tolerance to "unresponsive" or flawed gameplay is quite low (which is a very good thing because it demands better). We've even had a "hardcore" RPer note the issues because it disturbed them as it made him/her feel disconnected from his/her Avatar... its all a matter of "tolerance" and the fact that the more casual you get the greater your tolerance becomes to imperfections... Edit for Klarick: yes it is a fact that the more casual one gets the less critical ones eye is to imperfections... this is an elementary logical pathway... Edited January 27, 2012 by Xcore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ituhata Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I've avoided this thread for the most part. On my Inquisitor its barely noticeable except for one ability in particular and two others that require a few clicks to fire the ability, nothing game breaking. I noticed it a little more on an Imperial Agent, but still bearable in pve. I am leveling a gunslinger now and it is painfully apparent. Cover seems to be a major issue immediately after using long cast animation abilities. I want to say it is a little better after the recent patch but it sure doesn't feel that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traumahawk Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I've avoided this thread for the most part. On my Inquisitor its barely noticeable except for one ability in particular and two others that require a few clicks to fire the ability, nothing game breaking. I noticed it a little more on an Imperial Agent, but still bearable in pve. I am leveling a gunslinger now and it is painfully apparent. Cover seems to be a major issue immediately after using long cast animation abilities. I want to say it is a little better after the recent patch but it sure doesn't feel that way. I'm noticing more consistency throughout, however when the system fails, it seems to be less recoverable than before. I've been locked out of all abilities until I stop key pressing and wait for almost 2 seconds. I hope this isn't a two steps forward, 4 steps back type of fix. In addition, the broken CD timer display (which took one patch to break and apparently 3 to fix) paired with the looping animation on Maul, makes at least one of my characters practically unbearable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klarick Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) It is MY OPINION that the more casual one gets the less critical ones eye is to imperfections... I BELIEVE this is an elementary logical pathway... Fixed another one for you my friend. Edited January 27, 2012 by Klarick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putok Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I'm noticing more consistency throughout, however when the system fails, it seems to be less recoverable than before. I've been locked out of all abilities until I stop key pressing and wait for almost 2 seconds. I hope this isn't a two steps forward, 4 steps back type of fix. In addition, the broken CD timer display (which took one patch to break and apparently 3 to fix) paired with the looping animation on Maul, makes at least one of my characters practically unbearable. The stuttering issue is bad for a few abilities. I've noticed that "lockout" happening with take cover too, for some reason. Every now and then, upon exiting cover on my sniper, I will be unable to re-enter cover for some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putok Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I've avoided this thread for the most part. On my Inquisitor its barely noticeable except for one ability in particular and two others that require a few clicks to fire the ability, nothing game breaking. I noticed it a little more on an Imperial Agent, but still bearable in pve. I am leveling a gunslinger now and it is painfully apparent. Cover seems to be a major issue immediately after using long cast animation abilities. I want to say it is a little better after the recent patch but it sure doesn't feel that way. My inquisitor definitely plays better than all my other characters. Even after the rather significant improvements in the latest patch, the inquisitor is still noticeably better, both assassin and sorc (though I gather maul is a big issue for some). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klarick Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 As far as this goes, I guess you could call me casual as I am a clicker, but I still see this issue even while clicking. So I don't see how anyone could think it doesn't exist. The issue does exist for some players. Unfortunatly you seem affected by it. The good news is that the developers (experienced and professional programmers who code games for a living) are working on the issue and have already improved it for some. According to BW they will be pushing out some more tweaks in order to help alleviate this problem that some players are experiencing. I hope your issue is resolved very soon and, in my opinion, based on the track record of Bioware, they will have you going strong in the shortest amount of time possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eighthook Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 The issue does exist for some players. Unfortunatly you seem affected by it. The good news is that the developers (experienced and professional programmers who code games for a living) are working on the issue and have already improved it for some. According to BW they will be pushing out some more tweaks in order to help alleviate this problem that some players are experiencing. I hope your issue is resolved very soon and, in my opinion, based on the track record of Bioware, they will have you going strong in the shortest amount of time possible. Xcore already corrected me on this, thanks though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klarick Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Xcore already corrected me on this, thanks though You're welcome Eighthook. Hope they fix you up soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eighthook Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) You're welcome Eighthook. Hope they fix you up soon! I can't say it affects everyone or it's just not noticeable by all and even less noticeable on certain classes because I have not played all classes yet, however if you play a jedi sentinel you will definitely see it in PvP if you have even just a little skill. Edited January 27, 2012 by Eighthook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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