Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)

[Klarick]

Firstly, why doesn't a Bioware employee clear these things up and tell us what system Is really Intended?

Because not everyone has the issue that you are experiencing. In fact most people don't seem to have the problem..

 

Secondly, I disagree, a system where you are "locked" up because of animation cannot be competitive in an MMO environment on the levels that a system such as WoW can be.

I would agree. However, most aren't having the issue that you describe. I do believe however, it is an issue for some and it appears BW is working to make your experience enjoyable. I personally have no problem in the PvP or PvE environment.

 

Just because both parties lag, are locked up, cannot see colors but only black and white... the screen goes black for 3 sec every 10 sec or whatever else... does not make It equal and able to be competitive.

Is this another issue? I have never seen the screen go black.

 

You need to understand that In a system where everyone lags or abilities are delayed or people are unable to perform actions because they're locked into an animation... it lowers the overall skill cap amd Introduces frustration and RNG factors.

I understand what you are trying to say here but as a competitive athelete I can tell you that you're logic is seriously flawed.

 

In this type of environment, a bad player and an amazing player are very close together in terms of potential. In a system that is 100% responsive to input without limitations and everything is smooth, a bad player has no hope against an amazing player, thus WoW is able to introduce MMOs to eSports and no other MMO can.

Sorta true. However, to be correct it should say "regardless of the conditions, an amazing player will alway defeat a bad player". Your implication, however, of "this type of environment" is an opinion and not fact.

 

Just because everyone has to deal with the same flaws in the system does not make It so that its an even playingfield. The better players are artificially brought down by a slow, unreliable, unresponsive system while at the same time this benefits and elevates players who are not so good.

Not correct at all. However, you may need a little real world competitive experience in team sports to fully understand the point. Bad environments do not magically make bad players good. The bad environment will only make bad players worst. Good players will always overcome their environment. The skill-cap as you like to say doesnt change. Or, the cap may change slightly, but the difference between the two levels of play would not change.

 

The issue discussed here is on many levels damaging, one is the potential for complexity In PvE Endgame, one is the SkillCap in PvP amd yet another is the feeling of connection and immersion In RP... everything is affected by this foundation of Avatar Responsiveness and Gameplay Feel.

 

I disagree with your opinion. However, I respect your right to post it. The issue is damaging to you because you are experiencing an issue. However, it isn't damaging to me, because I'm not having the issue.

 

Saying that its all good as long as the system is equal for everyone is false and does not go deep enough into all areas of repercussions.

This last statement, by itself, is almost the pure definition of an equal playing field. Not sure the point you are making, however, the first part of the first sentence is certaintly not false.

 

I should hit 50 tonight or early tomorrow. Once I do, I'll post and let you know if I am seing the issue at 50. It is possible that the issue starts at level 50, which would explain why I haven't seen it through the first 49 levels.

[Putok]

This last statement, by itself, is almost the pure definition of an equal playing field. Not sure the point you are making, however, the first part of the first sentence is certaintly not false.

 

I should hit 50 tonight or early tomorrow. Once I do, I'll post and let you know if I am seing the issue at 50. It is possible that the issue starts at level 50, which would explain why I haven't seen it through the first 49 levels.

 

It's not apparently with all abilities on all characters. I have almost no issues on my assassin, minor issues on my sorc, moderate issues on my sniper, and major issues on my warrior. Ability delay is improved since the last patch, though still present under certain circumstances.

 

"Stutter" bugs are what really annoy me on the warrior though. I don't really notice them if I'm playing slow/clicking, but if I actually try to play the character to its potential, it can get frustrating at times.

[Scyln]

I don't know if this is an appropriate fix for this issue, i really think that the huge problem is the mass flood of commands that are being sent from the player to the server in which causes this lag. Myself i will hit my 1 key about 3-4 times and so forth and so on. How i have always played even while playing WoW. I believe if they would get rid of us having to constantly use abilities to kill mobs/players that it would alleviate some of the lag.

 

I have noticed many times when abilities go ON GCD when they shouldn't or the ability does not go off, my char will hesitate, or sometimes it bugs out so bad i can actually spam an ability that is not meant to be spammed..

 

This is an issue that really needs to be taken care of ASAP. It kills the game play when abilities do no go off when they are supposed to.

[Stejo]

This last statement, by itself, is almost the pure definition of an equal playing field. Not sure the point you are making, however, the first part of the first sentence is certaintly not false.

 

I should hit 50 tonight or early tomorrow. Once I do, I'll post and let you know if I am seing the issue at 50. It is possible that the issue starts at level 50, which would explain why I haven't seen it through the first 49 levels.

 

No, it doesn't start at 50. The only reason why you didn't notice anything is because you're as terrible as the font color you use, there I said it.

 

Now, since you like competitive sports I'll give you a real world example of how the condition of the field benefits the less skilled player. Take football. Say you're a terrible team that can't even string 2 passes together and you're playing against Barcelona. Would you prefer to play them in a proper stadium with perfect conditions or a muddy field where you can't even shoot the ball, let alone pass it with any accuracy?

 

PS. When this post gets inevitably reported, dear moderator can you just ban me and be done with it? Those warnings are getting tiresome.

[Klarick]

I love your example as I've just watched the extended highlights of Barcelona vs. Real... what a game...

 

On topic though, Klarick has absolutely "Zero" credibility here and I wager absolutely "no support"... he is basically trolling and the moderation on these forums is not bright enough to pick up on it...

 

If this were Team Liquid or EJ or any place slightly brighter... he would be laughed out the door. The best you and everyone can do is Flag his posts as trolling.

 

Funny, I have been a regular contributor to Elitist Jerks for a few years now. Love the site.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Klarick

[Xcore]

Funny, I have been a regular contributor to Elitist Jerks for a few years now. Love the site.

 

Can you provide us with links to your contributions and profile? I played with <Serious Casual> on Mal'Ganis for a year in early WotLK, I'm sure you know their affiliation to EJ. I wonder if I recognize you from there...

Edited January 27, 2012 by Xcore

[Klarick]

Can you provide us with links to your contributions and profile? I played with <Serious Casual> on Mal'Ganis for a year in early WotLK, I'm sure you know their affiliation to EJ. I wonder if I recognize you from there...

 

I will considor releasing my EJ name. However, in all honesty I am hesitant. I don't need to bring your attitude and failed logic to the good folks at Elitist Jerks. I have a bit of a good rep there on the warrior and mage threads, I don't think I wish to have you trolling me there. I doubt they would put up with it for more than about a minute, but I'm not taking the chance at this time.

 

I think it best to leave SWTOR "friends" on SWTOR.

[Xcore]

I will considor releasing my EJ name. However, in all honesty I am hesitant. I don't need to bring your attitude and failed logic to the good folks at Elitist Jerks. I have a bit of a good rep there on the warrior and mage threads, I don't think I wish to have you trolling me there. I doubt they would put up with it for more than about a minute, but I'm not taking the chance at this time.

 

I think it best to leave SWTOR "friends" on SWTOR.

 

lol....

[Klarick]

lol....

 

lol....

 

(?)

[Romoreas]

I will considor releasing my EJ name. However, in all honesty I am hesitant. I don't need to bring your attitude and failed logic to the good folks at Elitist Jerks. I have a bit of a good rep there on the warrior and mage threads, I don't think I wish to have you trolling me there. I doubt they would put up with it for more than about a minute, but I'm not taking the chance at this time.

 

I think it best to leave SWTOR "friends" on SWTOR.

 

Uh yeah that makes no sense unless EJ moderation has changed over the past year. They used to be quick to ban and sometimes they would ban people over retarded stuff. If I remember correctly Starfreak from <Cuties Only> got perma banned during Wrath in a Frost theory crafting thread (he was setting the top frost parses).

[nitaant]

Instacast means it casts instantly. Doesn't mean it has to hit instantly.

 

I like the way it is right now atm. Adds to the fluidity of the gameplay. Also with the loading etc.

[Xcore]

This last statement, by itself, is almost the pure definition of an equal playing field. Not sure the point you are making, however, the first part of the first sentence is certaintly not false.

 

I should hit 50 tonight or early tomorrow. Once I do, I'll post and let you know if I am seing the issue at 50. It is possible that the issue starts at level 50, which would explain why I haven't seen it through the first 49 levels.

 

1) Not everyone is capable of experiencing the same issues, taking a survey in this thread from the beginning it has been established that "better" or "more advanced" players experience/notice/perceive it more as they are more attuned to precision and fast paced/competitive play.

 

Please step forward and name me (with proof) Top100 Raiders, Gladiator or multi-Gladiator PvPers, Professional/Tournament Players from: CS:S, Quake, WC3, WoW, LoL...

 

Within this threadline, we've had all of the above with prove credentials (links to facebook/clan sites/profiles etc.)

 

2) You did not comprehend my point there, that is ok...

 

3) You are not a competitive athlete, you do not disprove my logic by stating that you are a "competitive athlete" and my logic is flawed... thats not how it works...

 

4) No, "regardless of condition a better player will always defeat a bad player" is not true because as I've logically stated one can easily artificially bring down better players while elevating bad players.

 

This is an everyday topic in "sports", I am shocked that as a "competitive athlete" you do not realize this very simple and "correct" logic. Once again to re-iterate, Barcelona vs. Wigan... pretty big difference, however one can marginalize this difference if they play on an uneven "hill" with garbage cans for goalposts and mud instead of grass.

 

5) You do not know my "real world competitive experience" please don't claim to do so. The environment matters 100% in competitive "anything". This goes from "Chess" all the way to "Football" and also eSports/Gaming.

 

The SkillCap is not "slightly" changed but is affected greatly...

 

6) You are unable to experience the issue because your playstyle is likely not affected by it, this is why "most people" do not experience it, because "most people" are clickers and casual players who something like this would not bother.

 

 

 

The last statement does not in fact mean that at all... you're not comprehending and that is ok Klarick.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Xcore

[Xcore]

lol....

 

(?)

 

Indeed Mr. Competitive Athlete, EJ Contributor.... lol

Edited January 27, 2012 by Xcore

[Xcore]

Uh yeah that makes no sense unless EJ moderation has changed over the past year. They used to be quick to ban and sometimes they would ban people over retarded stuff. If I remember correctly Starfreak from <Cuties Only> got perma banned during Wrath in a Frost theory crafting thread (he was setting the top frost parses).

 

This is correct and yes EJ as well as TeamLiquid is pretty funny in that way.

[Klarick]

1) Not everyone is capable of experiencing the same issues, taking a survey in this thread from the beginning it has been established that "better" or "more advanced" players experience/notice/perceive it more as they are more attuned to precision and fast paced/competitive play.

 

Please step forward and name me (with proof) Top100 Raiders, Gladiator or multi-Gladiator PvPers, Professional/Tournament Players from: CS:S, Quake, WC3, WoW, LoL...

 

Within this threadline, we've had all of the above with prove credentials (links to facebook/clan sites/profiles etc.)

 

2) You did not comprehend my point there, that is ok...

 

3) You are not a competitive athlete, you do not disprove my logic by stating that you are a "competitive athlete" and my logic is flawed... thats not how it works...

 

4) No, "regardless of condition a better player will always defeat a bad player" is not true because as I've logically stated one can easily artificially bring down better players while elevating bad players.

 

This is an everyday topic in "sports", I am shocked that as a "competitive athlete" you do not realize this very simple and "correct" logic. Once again to re-iterate, Barcelona vs. Wigan... pretty big difference, however one can marginalize this difference if they play on an uneven "hill" with garbage cans for goalposts and mud instead of grass.

 

5) You do not know my "real world competitive experience" please don't claim to do so. The environment matters 100% in competitive "anything". This goes from "Chess" all the way to "Football" and also eSports/Gaming.

 

The SkillCap is not "slightly" changed but is affected greatly...

 

6) You are unable to experience the issue because your playstyle is likely not affected by it, this is why "most people" do not experience it, because "most people" are clickers and casual players who something like this would not bother.

 

 

 

The last statement does not in fact mean that at all... you're not comprehending and that is ok Klarick.

 

You have established nothing, other than proving you have not played at any competitive level of any real sport. If you had, you would have understood the statements.

 

Roger Federer could play a High School Tennis player in a blizzard, on a flooded court, with a broken raquet and still put up a 6-0, 6-0, 6-0 easily without effort. Again, the blizzard didnt make the lesser player somehow magically better.

 

The New England Patriots could play any college team and beat them 80 to nothing during a black-out, tornado speed winds, and a flat football. The environment did not suddenly make the college team better, not did it make them competitive.

 

The Los Angeles Lakers could play Duke and beat them 160-20 on a muddy court, a broke rim, and kobe in a body cast. Again, no amount of "conditions" are going to make Duke more competitive.

 

Sorry, I can't relate to your soccer analogy. I'm talking about sports here. My wife and daughter play soccer.

[Klarick]

Uh yeah that makes no sense unless EJ moderation has changed over the past year. They used to be quick to ban and sometimes they would ban people over retarded stuff. If I remember correctly Starfreak from <Cuties Only> got perma banned during Wrath in a Frost theory crafting thread (he was setting the top frost parses).

 

Sorry I missed this. You are right of course. EJ doesn't typically mess around with the logically challenged, and is pretty much what I said above. However, there is no way that I trust Xcore to the point that I would considor giving him my EJ name or something like facebook. Not going to happen.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Klarick

[Xcore]

You have established nothing, other than proving you have not played at any competitive level of any real sport. If you had, you would have understood the statements.

 

Roger Federer could play a High School Tennis player in a blizzard, on a flooded court, with a broken raquet and still put up a 6-0, 6-0, 6-0 easily without effort. Again, the blizzard didnt make the lesser player somehow magically better.

 

The New England Patriots could play any college team and beat them 80 to nothing during a black-out, tornado speed winds, and a flat football. The environment did not suddenly make the college team better, not did it make them competitive.

 

The Los Angeles Lakers could play Duke and beat them 160-20 on a muddy court, a broke rim, and kobe in a body cast. Again, no amount of "conditions" are going to make Duke more competitive.

 

Sorry, I can't relate to your soccer analogy. I'm talking about sports here. My wife and daughter play soccer.

 

This post is all I really need to showcase your lack of comprehension on the topic of "competition". Thank you, you are wrong on every single point... and truly anyone with a slight amount of knowledge in regards to sports of any kind, including eSports will attest to that.

[Klarick]

This post is all I really need to showcase your lack of comprehension on the topic of "competition". Thank you, you are wrong on every single point... and truly anyone with a slight amount of knowledge in regards to sports of any kind, including eSports will attest to that.

 

lol. This is exactly what I expected from you my friend. One thing I will say about you: You do not dissapoint.

 

Edit: Please don't compare "eSports" with real life Team Sports of any kind. Please...please...do not go there.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Klarick

[Xcore]

lol. This is exactly what I expected from you my friend. One thing I will say about you: You do not dissapoint.

 

Edit: Please don't compare "eSports" with real life Team Sports of any kind. Please...please...do not go there.

 

You continue to dig your hole and prove your lack of understanding... I don't know why you do it. Do you not see that not a single person really has sprung up in your support? There is a reason for this...

[Klarick]

You continue to dig your hole and prove your lack of understanding... I don't know why you do it. Do you not see that not a single person really has sprung up in your support? There is a reason for this...

 

The only thing you need to understand Xcore, once again, is that your opinion is not fact. That's what all this is about. For some reason you have placed yourself on this pedastal and I do believe you really think that your opinions are facts just because you wish them to be. All i'm saying is that your opinion is opinion. You have the right to state your opinion. I have the right to not agree with your opinion.

 

Your arrogance will prove a crutch when you grow up and the real world starts slapping you around.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Klarick

[Xcore]

The only thing you need to understand Xcore, once again, is that your opinion is not fact. That's waht all this about. For some reason you have placed yourself on this pedastal and I do believe you really think that your opinions are facts just because you wish them to be. All i'm saying is that your opinion is opinion. You have the right to state your opinion. I have the right to not agree with your opinion.

 

Your arrogance will prove a crutch when you grow up and the real world starts slapping you around.

 

Your reply makes no sense... I have not stated anything as a fact in what you quoted... also, you continue to attack me personally, "when you grow up"?

[Romoreas]

Sorry I missed this. You are right of course. EJ doesn't typically mess around with the logically challenged, and is pretty much what I said above. However, there is no way that I trust Xcore to the point that I would considor giving him my EJ name or something like facebook. Not going to happen.

 

Any legitimate poster on EJ wouldn't be scared to post their EJ name as a source, Facebook I would understand, but you're overreacting about giving someone your EJ username.

[DirtyDozen]

The only thing you need to understand Xcore, once again, is that your opinion is not fact. That's waht all this about. For some reason you have placed yourself on this pedastal and I do believe you really think that your opinions are facts just because you wish them to be. All i'm saying is that your opinion is opinion. You have the right to state your opinion. I have the right to not agree with your opinion.

 

Your arrogance will prove a crutch when you grow up and the real world starts slapping you around.

 

You need to understand that there's no real purpose to your posts here except trolling this thread. You're not helping the issue.

 

The Devs obviously have acknowledged the issue. They read the thread, that too is obvious. Your posts, and now this one, just litter it with useless garbage to them.

 

I don't see why you continue to post here if you don't have the problem and don't intend to contribute any real input that's valuable to solving it.

 

You're embarrassing yourself and you should stop. Please stop.

Edited January 27, 2012 by DirtyDozen

[Klarick]

Your reply makes no sense... I have not stated anything as a fact in what you quoted... also, you continue to attack me personally, "when you grow up"?

 

Im not trying to attack you...Im really not. You are frustrating to no end -- to that I can admit. But it is a bit annoying when people throw there opinions around like they are facts. You have stated very, very few facts in your threads. You make huge leaps in logic to come up with illogical conclusions. I will admit you have spent an enormous amount of time on this "project" and have convinced a few people of your point of view. All im saying is understand that just because you believe something to be all inclusive, and factual, it isn't. You have the right to you opnion, and I do respect that right.

 

I m heading back in the game now. I need to hit level 50 to see if I can notice your delay. I'll be back later.

 

Take care.

[Romoreas]

Im not trying to attack you...Im really not. You are frustrating to no end -- to that I can admit. But it is a bit annoying when people throw there opinions around like they are facts. You have stated very, very few facts in your threads. You make huge leaps in logic to come up with illogical conclusions. I will admit you have spent an enormous amount of time on this "project" and have convinced a few people of your point of view. All im saying is understand that just because you believe something to be all inclusive, and factual, it isn't. You have the right to you opnion, and I do respect that right.

 

I m heading back in the game now. I need to hit level 50 to see if I can notice your delay. I'll be back later.

 

Take care.

 

The guy posted an hour long video showcasing what is wrong with the game.

 

You hit an ability and it doesn't do anything, the game is broken.

 

That's the only fact that is important.