Do you report offensive behavior that occurs in general chat?

[Brosephiine]

It's the internet, it's words. This is not real-life happenings. This is not some person going out and murdering someone. This is not some person going out and foraging some little girls virginity.

 

It's the internet.

 

Honestly.

 

I'm tired of grinding levels.

I'm tired of grinding gear.

I'm tired of having to pug.

 

But I can't really do **** about it.

 

It's the internet, it's words... Read by and written by real people with real feelings. I certainly don't want to read in graphical detail the rompings of some man as he looks and finds a little girl to abuse while I'm questing on Tatooine.

 

Also, if you're tired of it you can do something about it... Stop playing.

 

And yes, that talk IS in violation of the ToS even if it is not directed at the person reporting it.

 

EDIT: As proof of such, a direct quote from the ToS:

To keep the Service a compliant, fun, fair and safe gaming environment for everyone, you may not engage in any of the following behavior:

...

 

Create character names or otherwise transmit or facilitate distribution of Content that is harmful, abusive, racially or ethnically offensive, vulgar, sexually explicit, defamatory, infringing, invasive of personal privacy or publicity rights, or objectionable in a reasonable person's view. (Also see “Naming Policy” below.)

Edited January 27, 2012 by Brosephiine

[GellonSW]

It's the internet, it's words. This is not real-life happenings. This is not some person going out and murdering someone. This is not some person going out and foraging some little girls virginity.

 

It's the internet.

 

Honestly.

 

I'm tired of grinding levels.

I'm tired of grinding gear.

I'm tired of having to pug.

 

But I can't really do **** about it.

 

As for ToS infractions that's my whole point that no one seems to understand. Unless those comments are directed towards you it is not harassing you and is not a violation of BW's ToS/EULA. Otherwise they have free reign over general chat speaking of what they will even if someone finds it to be offensive.

 

There are so many things wrong with this post I don't even know where to begin. First off, as much as a percentage of the populace seem to think internet is free reign it is not. SWTOR is no different than any other moderated (and it is moderated unless you blatantly ignore their EULA) forum on the internet. Second, you're tired of all those aspects of the game yet you CAN do something about it. It's called stop playing. You just choose not to. I also don't see what that has anything to do with people making derogatory comments on general chat. Third, you probably should re-read the EULA regarding harassment/behavior before you puff your chest and thumb your nose at people.

[DarthChagras]

There are so many things wrong with this post I don't even know where to begin. First off, as much as a percentage of the populace seem to think internet is free reign it is not. SWTOR is no different than any other moderated (and it is moderated unless you blatantly ignore their EULA) forum on the internet. Second, you're tired of all those aspects of the game yet you CAN do something about it. It's called stop playing. You just choose not to. I also don't see what that has anything to do with people making derogatory comments on general chat. Third, you probably should re-read the EULA regarding harassment/behavior before you puff your chest and thumb your nose at people.

 

 

By free reign I simply meant they are able to talk about whatever the hell they want within the confines of the TOS/EULA. This is not some censoring agency named Bioware. And if you see below, going back to around page 15 I have repeatedly stated that a lot of the things they have been discussing are not against the TOS/EULA, they are simply found to be offensive and that is not really a violation of the TOS/EULA people are raised differently around the world everywhere doesn't mean someone else is entitled to saying I found that offensive /ban.

 

I play because I enjoy the games, and would rather not do those things but I don't mind doing them just like people in general chat may go about talking how they would like using the mannerisms they would like now please stay on topic.

 

Go back to round about page 15, and 14. I have repeated the TOS and EULA a multitude of times, outlining exactly what is considered as harassment, and abuse thank you.

Edited January 27, 2012 by DarthChagras

[Appletaz]

Snip

 

Honestly, buddy, it is my advice to you that you go out, get a beer, play some ball, or otherwise relax.

 

Your enormous posts are just overworked and not necessary, as I look at the wall of text and can see you have missed the point and want to hone in on details and dispute them, when I don't give a rats about it or what you think of it, so I don't read them.

 

Why? Because I don't have to. Just like you keep telling me you have the right to say anything in chat that you want to, without scruple, without responsibility, without anything. You can just say what you want and no one has the right to approach you about it. You and all those other mealy minded kids spewing their imaginations all over it.

 

I get it. You don't agree with me. You think that Bioware is completely in the clear and can give us rules that we must live by through the ToS and EULA, and they are not obligated in anyway to enforce them. Why, they don't even have to ever pay attention to them, according to you.

 

I'm saying that's bad business. And I'm saying General Chat is their responsibility to moderate. And you don't agree with me. Big deal.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Appletaz

[Luckmann]

Stop being such a baby.

[Brosephiine]

Stop being such a baby.

 

I haven't seen very many people here acting like "babies". Most people have brought up very valid points, some on both sides of the argument.

[ImperialRebel]

I certainly don't want to read in graphical detail the rompings of some man as he looks and finds a little girl to abuse while I'm questing on Tatooine.

 

Also, if you're tired of it you can do something about it... Stop playing.

 

Second, you're tired of all those aspects of the game yet you CAN do something about it. It's called stop playing. You just choose not to.

 

 

It somehow doesn't seem polite to throw someone's words back in their face, but both of you realize you could follow the exact advice your telling other people to do, if this issue bothers you so much, correct?

 

It's the internet, it's words... Read by and written by real people with real feelings.

 

Perception is not 9/10ths of the law. How you as a person feel(s), or perceives the words or statements I or another have written, might not be how they intended you to interpret them. Your feelings are irrelevant because what you feel from moment to moment varies (i.e. you might not feel the same way you do now, if you re-visit this topic in 24 hours or when a person is experiencing their 'monthly cycle', so trying to base an argument or debate on this premise is irrational, illogical, ignorant or naive.

 

 

I'm going to say you're being either irrational or illogical with your current basis, because you've stated in another post that you can tell "Generally ... when someone means no harm and they're just joking around". It stands to reason that with that statement made, you know when someone is being mean spirited or malicious in intent.

 

 

[JeremyDale]

Ok I read some of this - not all - and I'd like to start by just telling those of you who are complaining about language and reporting people to:

 

Grow up and get over it. This game has an ignore feature. Use it if someone is using language you find offensive. Do not behave like a child and go tattle-tell to your mommy and daddy - or in this case, the GM.

 

I find such behavior pitiful quite frankly, and the language police have no business being on the internet. The world does not revolve around you, and just because you have virgin ears and don't know how to use the ignore option doesn't make you right.

 

If offensive text causes you distress it's time you found a new hobby and stay clear from the internet all together. Nothing is more annoying than moral grand-standers on the internet - and there are copious ways to filter out other people.

 

Reporting people for lanaugage is NEVER aceptable, and says a lot more about you than the person you reported.

[JeremyDale]

I haven't seen very many people here acting like "babies". Most people have brought up very valid points, some on both sides of the argument.

 

Nope. Anyone who reports someone over their language on an internet game is indeed a baby - and there is nothing valid in anything they have said.

 

They should stop whining and just use the ignore button.

[Appletaz]

Nope. Anyone who reports someone over their language on an internet game is indeed a baby - and there is nothing valid in anything they have said.

 

They should stop whining and just use the ignore button.

 

And aren't we glad you aren't the one in charge.... but apparently Bioware shares your view. As do a few others on this thread.

 

Sacred Cow General Chat. The very concept of attempting to require a modicum of decency on this chat threatens the very timbers of free society and free speech.

 

I wonder who it is that needs to grow up?

[ImperialRebel]

Well, if you would like to lecture me, perhaps you should read my posts and respond to my points and not to your assumptions.

 

Your enormous posts are just overworked and not necessary, as I look at the wall of text and can see you have missed the point and want to hone in on details and dispute them...

 

Odd that you would encourage me to lecture you, which I've done by giving my walls of text along with an explanation of why, only to then attempt to admonish, belittle and criticize the me after you said to do just that. Only people that have no basis or solid argument to back their own posts, utilize this approach.

 

As for the dispute claim, I have done no such thing.

 

Just like you keep telling me you have the right to say anything in chat that you want to, without scruple, without responsibility, without anything.

 

Incorrect. You have absolutely no clue what I've said, or what my position on this matter.

 

I get it. You don't agree with me.

 

Correct.

 

You think that Bioware is completely in the clear and can give us rules that we must live by through the ToS and EULA, and they are not obligated in anyway to enforce them. Why, they don't even have to ever pay attention to them, according to you.

 

Incorrect. Never once did I say, imply or infer anything of the sort. Perhaps your inability "give a rats" is part of the problem, which is unfortunate for you.

 

I'm saying that's bad business.

 

I agree, but the (industry standard) rules and guidelines set forth in the EULA, TOS and guidelines allow it to continue and therefore that opinion is irrelevant. The difference between us, I acknowledge that I can't use this point in this debate (and have chosen not to voice it because of it's irrelevancy) whereas you seem to be unjustifiably clinging to it.

 

And I'm saying General Chat is their responsibility to moderate.

 

Based on what? You have not done nothing to expand on this statement beyond what you feel or think.

 

 

And you don't agree with me. Big deal.

 

I never said it was.

 

 

You know nothing about me or what I do to relax, which ironically is to discuss the very issue at hand, with my with similarly minded individuals. I would appreciate it if you would refrain from the continual rudeness you've shown me. It's very obvious that you are not my friend and we are not buddies, so continually carrying on the way you do does nothing to reinforce that concept.

 

[JeremyDale]

And aren't we glad you aren't the one in charge.... but apparently Bioware shares your view. As do a few others on this thread.

 

Sacred Cow General Chat. The very concept of attempting to require a modicum of decency on this chat threatens the very timbers of free society and free speech.

 

I wonder who it is that needs to grow up?

 

No need to wonder who needs to grow up. It's the ones who never learned how to accept that different people have different ideas of what is "decent" and what isn't.

 

Any "mature" person would simply use the ignore button if someone is using language they don't consider "decent'. They wouldn't go tattle-tell to a GM like a toddler trying to get his sibling in trouble.

 

It is very haughty and childish for someone to decide that they are the moral-in-cheif of the internet and get to decide what passes for acceptable language and what doesn't.

[Luckmann]

I haven't seen very many people here acting like "babies". Most people have brought up very valid points, some on both sides of the argument.

 

It was entirely directed the OP, not anyone else.

[Brosephiine]

Nope. Anyone who reports someone over their language on an internet game is indeed a baby - and there is nothing valid in anything they have said.

 

They should stop whining and just use the ignore button.

 

If by language you mean swearing, then it's not about swearing. OP has stated they don't mind the swearing.

[Brosephiine]

It was entirely directed the OP, not anyone else.

 

But the OP isn't being a baby either and they've clarified over and over what exactly they meant by their post.

[Brosephiine]

Ok I read some of this - not all - and I'd like to start by just telling those of you who are complaining about language and reporting people to:

 

Grow up and get over it. This game has an ignore feature. Use it if someone is using language you find offensive. Do not behave like a child and go tattle-tell to your mommy and daddy - or in this case, the GM.

 

I find such behavior pitiful quite frankly, and the language police have no business being on the internet. The world does not revolve around you, and just because you have virgin ears and don't know how to use the ignore option doesn't make you right.

 

If offensive text causes you distress it's time you found a new hobby and stay clear from the internet all together. Nothing is more annoying than moral grand-standers on the internet - and there are copious ways to filter out other people.

 

Reporting people for lanaugage is NEVER aceptable, and says a lot more about you than the person you reported.

 

I agree with this on the grounds of swearing alone. I love swearing, my language is very colorful. You'd see it yourself if this stupid *********** language filter wasn't here on the forums. Grr. I wish you had the option of turning off the language filter on the forums.

[JeremyDale]

If by language you mean swearing, then it's not about swearing. OP has stated they don't mind the swearing.

 

It doesn't matter what it is.

 

I"m sure there are things you say someone on planet earth finds offensive as well. If you don't like what someone is saying just put them on ignore, problem solved. There is no reason to go tattle-tell to a GM about it.

[Brosephiine]

I'm slightly disappointed in the responses this thread has gotten. It seems to have derailed into a talk of bad language and whether it's right or wrong to curse in General and that was never the point of this thread. The OP even edited her original post to say that this is not about bad language or the language filter.

 

This topic was supposed to be about inappropriate behavior and whether or not people report for it.

 

Inappropriate behavior being deemed as such (taken from the ToS):

To keep the Service a compliant, fun, fair and safe gaming environment for everyone, you may not engage in any of the following behavior:

 

Harass, threaten, embarrass, or do anything to another player that is unwanted. This includes posting insulting, offensive, or abusive comments about players, repeatedly sending unwanted messages, attacking a player based on race, sexual orientation, religion, heritage, etc. Hate speech is not tolerated.

 

Create character names or otherwise transmit or facilitate distribution of Content that is harmful, abusive, racially or ethnically offensive, vulgar, sexually explicit, defamatory, infringing, invasive of personal privacy or publicity rights, or objectionable in a reasonable person's view.

 

I personally do report for it. I don't mind upholding the rules because to me, "It doesn't affect me so I don't care" is a poor excuse to brush off terrible behavior. I don't approve of it and because of that, I report it. As I've said before, it's not something I want to see. I could just ignore the person and chances are I will, but SWTOR's TOS also ASKS you to report such behavior if seen.

 

If you encounter another user who is violating the Rules of Conduct, please report this activity by using the “Help” or “Report Abuse” functions in the TOR Service.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Brosephiine

[JeremyDale]

I'm slightly disappointed in the responses this thread has gotten. It seems to have derailed into a talk of bad language and whether it's right or wrong to curse in General and that was never the point of this thread. The OP even edited her original post to say that this is not about bad language or the language filter.

 

This topic was supposed to be about inappropriate behavior and whether or not people report for it.

 

Inappropriate behavior being deemed as such (taken from the ToS):

 

 

What is an example of this "inappropriate behavior" you are talking about then?

 

And I never read those guide-lines. They are always written to be extremely broad to cover the company's asses if they take action.

Edited January 27, 2012 by JeremyDale

[Appletaz]

Odd that you would encourage me to lecture you, which I've done by giving my walls of text along with an explanation of why, only to then attempt to admonish, belittle and criticize the me after you said to do just that. Only people that have no basis or solid argument to back their own posts, utilize this approach.

 

Let me clarify for you: I made a post. You decided to lecture me on what you decided it meant. You assumed the authority of a teacher for me, but you had no cause. You informed me of your offense that I had dared to post when I had not utilized the tools that BW has given us to self-police chat.

 

You did not read my post, because, if you had, then you would have known I had used all the "tools" that Bioware gives us to use in these circumstances, and you wouldn't have felt the need to lecture me about it. So that reduces to the idea that you didn't read my post.

 

There are degrees to everything. I, like Brosephine, have a very dirty mouth. I cuss like a sailor. I tell off color jokes. I laugh at off color jokes. This is not the issue for me.

 

The issue for me is that this General Chat channel, in Dromund Kaas particularly, is absolutely gross. I would like Bioware to take its ToS and EULA seriously and moderate the ingame chat as voraciously as it does the Forums. I think it is warranted and I think it is necessary, because obviously, left to our own devices, we quickly sink into the gross and lewd with such ease that there are people like you that think it is just absolutely okay.

 

I think that worries me more than anything else. That I have had to spend so much time explaining a simple concept of appropriate behavior in a public crowd.

 

AND I am not asking for anything more than Bioware to step in and put their money where their mouth is. You are gonna make rules... if you don't enforce them, why bother?

Edited January 27, 2012 by Appletaz

[Soultranna]

I never report people for curse words or obscenity sprinkled into normal chat, unless that's ALL they are doing is spamming curse words.

 

I have reported and will continue to report people for trolling, flaming, spouting crude or lewd statements, parroting memes, or otherwise intentionally disrupting the channel.

 

WoW's general chat turned into a cesspool because no one cared enough to say anything. Ergo, I believe that, to keep the same thing from happening in SWTOR, we as players need to be militant about reporting TOS violations. At some point the offenders WILL stack up enough demerits to get themselves banned from the game... and at that point they'll hopefully learn that there are more appropriate venues.

[Brosephiine]

What is an example of this "inappropriate behavior" you are talking about then?

 

And I never read those guide-lines. They are always written to be extremely broad to cover the company's asses if they take action.

 

An example would be what I encountered when first trying out the game:

 

I was questing on a new toon on Tython when I noticed someone in general chat making derogatory comments about women and how he liked to beat them and cook meth. No one took him seriously and they were kind of laughing at him; I myself was rolling my eyes at him. But he was throwing around slurs at multiple people and generally being an ******. I reported him for it, though I myself wasn't actually offended by it.

 

And the guidelines are actually fairly specific here.

[ImperialRebel]

Let me clarify for you: I made a post.

 

I've read everyone's response here prior to your 'spicy vocabulary' comment. I'm fully aware of what you said in that post and have said nothing against that post. I have gone back several times to try and figure out where you get the justification to think that Bio Ware has a duty to moderate general Chat. I have asked you repeatedly to, and you have failed to do so.

 

 

You decided to lecture me on what you decided it meant. You assumed the authority of a teacher for me, but you had no cause.

 

Incorrect. You gave your consent to be lectured by me and I did so to explain what the word duty meant. Further explanation for this is below.

 

Yes, I do expect there to be a certain level of decorum and I expect BW to care about that there is.

 

Why do you expect Bio Ware to conform to this ideal of gaming standard? You've still not based this question in any meaningful form other than your opinion, which has no relevance to this conversation.

 

My purpose was to respond to you that policing the chat channels IS important and it is the job of BW to do it. The players can assist them with information and details. But they should set the standard.

 

Again, where do you get the justification for this? I'm not saying your wrong for thinking it, but what makes you think Bio Ware has to conform to this standard? No other MMO to my knowledge, has implemented this sort of enforcement. Here you are though, saying that Bio Ware should start monitoring what the community says in General Chat under the basis of, 'it's good for business". Proof, where is it?

 

But I find lectures from players here in the forums that tell me that this kind of behavior should be expected and tolerated because of some odd reason in their minds about their rights and how we as the playerbase simply have to remove ourselves from the social part of this game so that they can freely express themselves.

 

This response is directed at Uruare but there is a great deal of information you've chosen not to understand (which now comes across as willful ignorance), which is why I started focusing my conversation to you. I was never telling you that misbehavior in general chat should be expected or tolerated. Not once did I say that, you have continually chosen to think that, after repeated explanations (hence the willful ignorance comment). I have continued to post what the current TOS, EULA and Forum Rules, are. You don't seem to understand that this is what allows this behavior. You as the player, consent to it every time you launch the game. If you have issues with that, then stop subjecting yourself to it by supporting the game.

 

The problem is that you seem to find it perfectly acceptable for the forums to be moderated and a standard of behavior is just fine with you where these threads are concerned. And somehow, magically, they are able to do that --here-- and not in game? How odd and interesting.

 

This isn't directed at me but I'm using it to further illustrate my point that you aren't fully aware of what you're talking about. The game has a statement on the box: Online Interactions Not Rated by the ESRB. This means that everything that occurs online, inside the game is not monitored or regulated by the ESRB. The legalities that Bio Ware has posted online, protect it from having to enforce the exact monitoring service your trying to say Bio Ware is somehow required to implement. It's all very clever and legal. Your point and sentiment is not.

 

You decided to lecture me on what you decided it meant. You assumed the authority of a teacher for me, but you had no cause. You informed me of your offense that I had dared to post when I had not utilized the tools that BW has given us to self-police chat.

 

I posted what the rules for the forums are. I didn't do this to lecture you but to remind. If you took it as a lecture, it's your fault for not asking for clarification. I had also specifically taken issue with your use of the word duty concerning Bio Ware and told you not only exactly what it means, but also why I was bringing up legal issues (which this still is).

 

Well, if you would like to lecture me, perhaps you should read my posts and respond to my points and not to your assumptions.

 

This is where the partially incorrect pieces come into play, you've basically consented to have me lecture you, which I have done, at your request. The point of a lecture after all is: discourse given before an audience or class especially for instruction.

 

You did not read my post, because, if you had, then you would have known I had used all the "tools" that Bioware gives us to use in these circumstances, and you wouldn't have felt the need to lecture me about it. So that reduces to the idea that you didn't read my post.

 

Here you're the one jumping to conclusions to think that I hadn't read your posts. I don't have to inform you that I have, nor did I feel it required (as you've said to another), since the only thing I took issue with was your choice of the word duty.

 

 

The issue for me is that this General Chat channel, in Dromund Kaas particularly, is absolutely gross. I would like Bioware to take its ToS and EULA seriously and moderate the ingame chat as voraciously as it does the Forums. I think it is warranted and I think it is necessary, because obviously, left to our own devices, we quickly sink into the gross and lewd with such ease that there are people like you that think it is just absolutely okay.

 

I do not disagree with you. Unlike you however, I've read the horrible lengthy and legal TOS and EULA and know that any changes you want to see in game, regardless if I agree with you or not, are not going to happen because Bio Ware was clever enough to word it so that they don't have to concern themselves with this (legal) issue.

 

I think that worries me more than anything else. That I have had to spend so much time explaining a simple concept of appropriate behavior in a public crowd.

 

What's more troublesome here is that you think you've explained these 'concepts of appropriate behavior' more succinctly than Bio Ware has done in all the contracts that you've agreed to abide by, by clicking 'Play' and posting to the forums

 

AND I am not asking for anything more than Bioware to step in and put their money where their mouth is.

 

Misguided opinion aside, you are too misinformed to understand that that is exactly what you are asking them to do.

 

You are gonna make rules... if you don't enforce them, why bother?

 

They are. Go read all the documentation. Better yet, stop subscribing to the system if you think it's so broken.

 

 

This is the my closing statement to you on this particular topic. I think we both agree that this is going nowhere and our time would be better served by doing something more productive.

Edited January 28, 2012 by ImperialRebel
missing title, deletion of last sentence for being irrelevant.

[Appletaz]

No need to wonder who needs to grow up. It's the ones who never learned how to accept that different people have different ideas of what is "decent" and what isn't.

 

Any "mature" person would simply use the ignore button if someone is using language they don't consider "decent'. They wouldn't go tattle-tell to a GM like a toddler trying to get his sibling in trouble.

 

It is very haughty and childish for someone to decide that they are the moral-in-cheif of the internet and get to decide what passes for acceptable language and what doesn't.

 

The only people I think have the right to decide this is Bioware. It's their game. They wrote the rules of behavior. It's their judgment. Why even have rules, if you are not going to enforce them. You are in their realm. Live by their rules.

 

If you require freedom to express your wonder about body functions and parts and what can possibly be done to them and to other people in your imagination, start a blog. Make a website. Express yourself! I'm all for it.

 

The feral environment of Dromund Kaas should be attended to by Bioware. It is abusive and lewd and it doesn't stop, so your famous "ignore button" is rather useless. Turning off /1 is more appropriate and pretty much is what most people have done. It prevents a large number of the players from actually engaging socially.

 

I just can't imagine a public company who would approve and encourage this, especially with their rules published, and do nothing to enforce them. This is the only game I have played in 7 years that allowed it in their chats without issuing warnings and temporary bans.

 

 

@Imperial Rebel. Good, I'm glad we are done. And thanks for the spoiler tags, so I didn't have to read the diatribe

[Niccali]

Wow!! After skimming 24 pages of this thread, my head hurts...

 

My .02 is that a little cussing here and there should be acceptable, people get excited sometimes and it's just a part of life.

 

HOWEVER, with that said, anything that is obviously meant to be blatantly Racist, Sexist, hompphobic or hurtful should be dealt with harshly by Bioware when reported, up to and including suspensions and account nuking as needed.

 

NO ONE has the right to subject any other player to their twisted senibilities and if after being asked to stop their bad behavior and they dont comply/it continues, they SHOULD be reported and/or suspended or banned. Its ALWAYS the same small, core group of d-bag a-holes that do this (we've ALL seen them in chat, no matter the server)

 

Just because someone pays money to play this game, unless I'm mistaken, the subscription fee does NOT include the right to act w/o consequences.

 

Thanks OP for this thread and trying to keep it civilized....