Question about Darth Sidious and Plagueis?

[bliapis]

Warrior classes and Sorcs didnt really exist in original movies at least not to that degree that really makes it apparent of two "castes".

 

The older a force user he got the more adapt he became with the force - granted he had the right midichlorians and peace of mind to progress.

 

So old force users allegebly would rely less and less on saber fight and more on the usage of the Force.

 

Note on Yoda and Sidius. Both displayed extremelly good saber fighting skills but tremendous connection with the Force aswell.

[tausra]

There are no formal titles, true, but we can classify based on capabilities. Vader was not concerned with manipulating the force, mastering lightning or other esoteric pursuits. Add in the fact that Vader used a single saber and was an implacable opponent with relentless drive I would call him a Warrior. Using similar methodology we can apply a class, which may fit more neatly on some than others, to any of the characters.

 

Plagueis was obsessed with controlling life and death, mastering the darkside and uncovering Sith Lore. He knew how to use a saber, but when push came to shove he preferred to use the Force. I would classify Plagueis as a Sorcerer.

Edited January 25, 2012 by tausra

[LordQordisz]

I still think that book was hot.

[Valsdad]

Bane came up with the rule of two, but he also didn't try and hide himself in the Republic. Bane never ran for Supreme Chancellor, or played galactic corporations against one another while hiding in plain sight. Bane had the luxury of being a warrior, but those that followed him had to be more sneaky than aggressive. The point of the Rule of Two is being impossible to detect, to exist off the radar until it was time to strike.

 

Plagueis was a sorcerer. He spent the vast majority of his time learning to manipulate midichlorians and sentients of all stripes. Plagueis used his business acumen to guide galactic events from the shadows, even as he learned to control life and defy death. When enraged and near death Plagueis chose to use force lightning to eviscerate his would-be assassins. He was a Sorcerer.

 

Bane also transferred his mind into his apprentice's female body. Bane knew his style would not last long according to the new way the Sith would have to operate.

 

Zannah was more of a pure sorcerer so Bane actually was both.

[BrandonSM]

Bane also transferred his mind into his apprentice's female body. Bane knew his style would not last long according to the new way the Sith would have to operate.

 

Zannah was more of a pure sorcerer so Bane actually was both.

 

No he didn't. He tried but failed. Zannah was too strong for him.

[SeraphRhane]

Consular was said to describe Yoda in Dark Rendzevous and yet that was before an RPG with Jedi Counselars.

 

 

In DB Series, Bane tries to become a Sorcerer and fails, it even stated that plain out.

 

Did they appear in RPG's before their novel cmae out?

 

Consular and Guardian began with the Wizards of the Coast first edition of the D20 RPG, way back in 2000.

 

Sentinel was introduced in the first KOTOR game...

[Valsdad]

No he didn't. He tried but failed. Zannah was too strong for him.

 

The book clearly makes note of Zannah twitching Bane's damaged arm/hand, unless I misinterpreted it.

[BrandonSM]

I'm confused.

 

First you said

 

Bane also transferred his mind into his apprentice's female body. Bane knew his style would not last long according to the new way the Sith would have to operate.

 

Zannah was more of a pure sorcerer so Bane actually was both.

 

 

 

Then you said

The book clearly makes note of Zannah twitching Bane's damaged arm/hand, unless I misinterpreted it.

 

 

I'm confused on what your saying. I have the novels in my hand though I haven't read them in a while.

[Valsdad]

He began the transference as he was dying but I remember it being very vague as to if he completed it. And as she was walking off with her new apprentice she did the same involuntary hand movement that Bane always did. I took that to mean that he succeeded with his spell.

[hobofett]

He began the transference as he was dying but I remember it being very vague as to if he completed it. And as she was walking off with her new apprentice she did the same involuntary hand movement that Bane always did. I took that to mean that he succeeded with his spell.

 

Drew Kapshryn out right stated that Bane wasnt successful. The twitch was just a little throwback to show that some very small part of him lived on. But its all Zannah.

 

http://www.drewkarpyshyn.com/spoiler.htm

 

Warning the above is a spoiler link.

[BrandonSM]

He began the transference as he was dying but I remember it being very vague as to if he completed it. And as she was walking off with her new apprentice she did the same involuntary hand movement that Bane always did. I took that to mean that he succeeded with his spell.

 

No he failed. It says on the Drew Karpshyn website, that Bane failed. Bane almost succeeded but eventually failed. His spirit wasn't strong enough.

[Valsdad]

No he failed. It says on the Drew Karpshyn website, that Bane failed. Bane almost succeeded but eventually failed. His spirit wasn't strong enough.

 

Ok, I never looked further into it. Thanks for destroying my bro crush on Bane... I mean for clearing that up.

[Hanscholo]

There are no classes in SW. Sith Lords are just Sith Lords. Sure, some had abilties others didnt etc....and could kind of fit the class definitions, but that were never intended to be anything other than sith lords. Unless ofcourse we are going to rewrite history again for the millionth time.

[DiLune]

Just reading the name Plagueis makes me want to beat my head against a wall.

[BrianDavion]

Was Darth Sidious and his master Plagueis both sith sorcerers?

 

Also, what advanced class do you think Dooku was?

 

I doubt goerge lucas sat down and thought much about their class from the POV of a video game striveing for class balance

Edited January 26, 2012 by BrianDavion

[tausra]

There are no classes in SW. Sith Lords are just Sith Lords. Sure, some had abilties others didnt etc....and could kind of fit the class definitions, but that were never intended to be anything other than sith lords. Unless ofcourse we are going to rewrite history again for the millionth time.

 

I said it earlier in the thread, but I'll repeat it. Characters may not have classes but it is possible to list attributes and short comings and compare them to the classes in the game. It may not always fit perfectly, but it's still possible.

[DJIzzy]

The characters weren't written with class roles in mind, obviously. But based on skillsets and mindsets, I argue you'd have to classify both Sidious and Plagueis as sorcerers. When push came to shove, they both preferred to use their minds rather than their blades. Their dives and pursuits were about mastery of the esoteric elements of force and psychological manipulation FAR more than mastery over saber forms.

 

Both of them could take out a group of enemies with solely their blade, but recall- they're Sith. I can walk into any part of most of the game world and pick up a pack of 6 npc enemies and take them all out using nothing but my saber as a level 50 Sorcerer.

 

This choice of action doesn't mean I couldn't more easily just use Storm twice and wipe all six at once.

 

Sidious was about guile and psychological manipulation, and Plagueis was about Force manipulation. Much closer to the concept of "Sorcerer" than, say, Darth Maul's approach to conflict.

[bliapis]

Classes are an RPG convention.

 

There's really only Jedi and Sith.

 

^

this

 

 

There are no real classes in the Mythos.

 

Every sith and jedi are well trained lightsaber wielders. With age comes more knowledge of the Force.

 

With age aswell comes the natural disability to saberfight in a competive level, hence the older they get the more they resource to the Force to make up for it.

[SeraphRhane]

To quote Obi-Wan, "What you say is true, from a certain point of view."

 

While Jedi are Jedi and Sith are Sith there are some very clear distinctions to be made, otherwise they'd all be the same cookie-cutter clone type.

 

Take Bastila Shan, her battle meditation skill was a gift which not many other Jedi at the time could utilise, especially not with the same degree of success.

 

Look at Bane and Zannah, Bane was your brute force Sith who tried and failed (as already pointed out) to utilise the kind of sorcery that Zannah was able to wield. And I doubt she had the constitution in the Force to keep the orbalisks at bay.

 

Windu and Yoda - the extreme ends of the spectrum when it comes to Jedi.

[Doomla]

Dooku was probably a Guardian/Juggernaut.

 

Dooku was actually a Sith Marauder he dual wielded two sabres is you watch the canon star wars the clone wars two season cartoon which had 5 minute episodes youll notice him wielding two sabres.

[BrandonSM]

Dooku was actually a Sith Marauder he dual wielded two sabres is you watch the canon star wars the clone wars two season cartoon which had 5 minute episodes youll notice him wielding two sabres.

 

For like a couple minutes. He was mainly a Guardian and a Juggernaut.

[Supersomething]

They were both Sorcerers. The Rule of Two practically eliminated the use of Warriors because when the goal was stealth and subterfuge you don't recruit juggernauts.

 

Pretty sure Vader could be considered a Jugg.