Ceonnyn Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Dark Ward Instant Force: 10 Surrounds you in a dark ward with 8 charges that increases your shield chance by 15% for 20 seconds. Each time you successfully shield, Dark Ward loses 1 charge. Does not break Stealth. OK. I really enjoy this ability, at least the utility of it. Having to press this every 12-15 seconds, however, is not enjoyable. It adds 0 to my enjoyment of the game and makes tanking sometimes feel cumbersome. I feel that as it is already, we have plenty of other things to watch for as a tank. I am seriously thinking about just making a macro for this ability on my nostromo, and having it push the dark ward button every 12 seconds. In that other game, you may notice that paladins have a similar ability, but it does damage back to the attacker upon a successful block. I feel that having to press a button so often to simply increase passive defense, is a waste of our time and needs to be revisited. For the paladin, the ability also causes damage, and so mentally, it feels different to me because I am at least causing damage vs just a passive effect. I don't know why this could not be made passive, instead, with 1 charge being replenished every 2.5 seconds, capped at 8 stored. I realize this game makes us press the attack key manually. While I don't agree with that design philosophy either, I still think pressing dark ward all the time is a bad idea. I would appreciate it if perhaps we as a community discussed this and if you like/dislike the dark ward mechanic, I'd like to hear about it. Thanks everyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralkora Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Agreed it's a bit cumbersome. But please note that the "other game" had you pressing a button for passive resistance when charges wore out on cooldown JUST like this for 6+ years. It was only revamped in the last xpac. It used to be press button, get cooldown, get buff with x charges (8 or so i think) just like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceonnyn Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 Agreed it's a bit cumbersome. But please note that the "other game" had you pressing a button for passive resistance when charges wore out on cooldown JUST like this for 6+ years. It was only revamped in the last xpac. It used to be press button, get cooldown, get buff with x charges (8 or so i think) just like this. And while I agree with you, I think we have the opportunity to not have to repeat that same mistake for another six years over on this game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerel Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Bioware doesn't seem real keen on learning from the mistakes Blizzard has made, they seem quite content to repeat them. I wouldn't expect this to change anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faytte Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Signed. The current form is ridiculous. Its not fun, or strategic. Its a tax and it makes assassins focus on buffs instead of the fight they are attempting to tank. Seals were changed in wow to not be 15 seconds Warriors stopped having to slam shield block every x seconds Remember Holy Shield? Exact same idea as dark ward. It was X charge + X % Block. Was determined to be annoying and detrimental to the actual tanking effectiveness of Paladins and was changed to have no charges, then eventually made a passive. Good Game Design: Players make meaningful and strategic choices in game. Bad Game Design: Players must perform a series of actions which bare no strategic importance, but are necessary to perform their role (in this case, not die). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnubisXy Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 The big problem with this is in tanking AoE trash or fast hitting mobs. Within 5 seconds after activating this all the charges get used up. And then you're stuck without your defences for another 5 seconds. This puts you at a disadvantage when compared to other tanks who pretty much are operating at peak efficiency 100% of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceonnyn Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 The big problem with this is in tanking AoE trash or fast hitting mobs. Within 5 seconds after activating this all the charges get used up. And then you're stuck without your defences for another 5 seconds. This puts you at a disadvantage when compared to other tanks who pretty much are operating at peak efficiency 100% of the time. I realize that effectiveness in AoE is vastly reduced versus other tank's mitigation in the same scenario, but I wanted to try to stay positive and not bring out the "we suck vs other tanks" types of posts, in the hopes that a friendly community moderator will forward this issue to development ^^ baby steps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralkora Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 And while I agree with you, I think we have the opportunity to not have to repeat that same mistake for another six years over on this game But everyone wants this to be wow 2.0 right? haha. I agree. It's a bit cumbersome yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmalachor Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Clicking/pressing Dark Ward every 15-20 secs is really annoying esp. shield supposedly make us as viable as heavy armor tanks with higher mitigation. If they do not want to make it a toggle at least make it 20-30 charges, no timer and 10-15 sec CD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceonnyn Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 Yes I think it was not quite thought out, which also leads me to suspect that the assassin was the last class finished for SWTOR, and the tanking tree was the last tree finished before it went live. Maybe someone who was in beta knows for sure? It seems a bit odd, that if you are stunned/incapacitated and your Dark Ward falls off, you actually take a huge penalty to your defense vs a different tanking class whose mitigation is for the most part static. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrathorn Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I agree it is hardly an ideal ability but using it with discharge has helped me. I have it bound next to my discharge key and hit both at the same time. Obviously you need to be a bit more aware of it in aoe situations but I think it adds to challenge of the game which I'd have to say I'm enjoying alot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosTheoryCraft Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 good game design: Players make meaningful and strategic choices in game. Bad game design: Players must perform a series of actions which bare no strategic importance, but are necessary to perform their role (in this case, not die). this, this, this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabbathius Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 /AGREE Quite a few MMO developers realized that abilities like these reduce the quality of life, add nothing and are not really about player skill at all. I mean, who here lacks the cranial capacity to hit a button every 15 seconds? Most of us can manage it without having an aneurism. Stuff like this is very 2004. It adds nothing positive to the experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evel Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Keeping Dark Ward up is part of the skill with playing a Sith Asassin based tank. If you do not want the maintenance (or uniqueness) of the class you may as well roll a Juggernaut. It is fine as is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberate Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) Keeping Dark Ward up is part of the skill with playing a Sith Asassin based tank. If you do not want the maintenance (or uniqueness) of the class you may as well roll a Juggernaut. It is fine as is. So even though Bioware said they don't want people choosing one class over another because one is verifiable to be better, you still hold to your statement? None of the other tanks have to activate a skill on a 12 second cooldown, all their shield chance bonuses are passive Anywhoo, I agree, make it passive. Edited January 25, 2012 by Liberate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pheonixf Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Signed. The current form is ridiculous. Its not fun, or strategic. Its a tax and it makes assassins focus on buffs instead of the fight they are attempting to tank. Seals were changed in wow to not be 15 seconds Warriors stopped having to slam shield block every x seconds Remember Holy Shield? Exact same idea as dark ward. It was X charge + X % Block. Was determined to be annoying and detrimental to the actual tanking effectiveness of Paladins and was changed to have no charges, then eventually made a passive. Good Game Design: Players make meaningful and strategic choices in game. Bad Game Design: Players must perform a series of actions which bare no strategic importance, but are necessary to perform their role (in this case, not die). requoted just so people and DEVS will see the truth and logic in this post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrilian Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Make it passive. Whatever do to it, nerf it or make it 100charges on 2min cd. Just extra pressing it hard on such a rough rotation for darkness speced pvp\pve assassin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batslav Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 the problem is in that i dont even know what im tanking since i watch buffs/debuffs 90% of the time also aoe done by bosses and so on passive no but longer duration with more charges and lets say 20 sec cd instead of 12 and as someone suggested when energize proc to add one charge if shock is used Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordXalas Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 voice your opinion on the matter on this thread http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=231811 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordXalas Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Keeping Dark Ward up is part of the skill with playing a Sith Asassin based tank. If you do not want the maintenance (or uniqueness) of the class you may as well roll a Juggernaut. It is fine as is. its not keeping it up thats the problem. Its the fact its useless in aoe focus fire pulls. Let say a jugg pulls a mob and they all focus fire on him while he has 45% shield chance. The fact is he will come out of it with 45% shield chance. An assassin puts up dark charge (8 charges) and pulls an aoe focus fire pull. All 8 charges are gone in a nano-second so we started with 45% shield chance but we drop to 20% shield chance is a nano-second. The CD is 12 secs so we cant put up the shield so its useless to say "just put it up again". So we get destroyed completely. Single target tanking is fine as it is but aoe is a piece of doodoo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zilod Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) signed is a taxation and something that applies only to assassin and not to other tank as pt who get a similar buff as passive even worse it disappear after few seconds of every aoe operation pull (or even vs some solo mobs T_T) making it kinda useless and putting sin at a big disadvantage compared that other tanks who dont have similar mechanics Edited January 25, 2012 by Zilod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordXalas Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 let your voices be heard on this matter in this thread. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=231811 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kainsec Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I think it should just have its charges removed. I am fine with keeping it up but it does seem a bit silly given are weaker mitigation than the other tanks that we are married to the charge system instead of the higher mitigation tanks which in my mind would be appropriate for a charge system since they need less mitigation increases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrykJesionek Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 A little of necromancy and a little of /bump Change this ability to a passive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelanis Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 A little of necromancy and a little of /bump Change this ability to a passive No. You'd have to then remove Dark Bulwark, which would be a loss of mitigation. You're asking for an easy ability to track to not have to be tracked at all and lose out on mitigation in the process. This thread may have made sense before Dark Bulwark existed, when all you got was 8 charges and your shield chance increase, but it's much stronger now with Dark Bulwark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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