Lina_Inverse Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) Discuss. Personally I think the premise of the zone isn't very fun at all. The objectives don't offer enough of a reason to split up the massive zerg on zerg action because they simply aren't important enough, and not every class has fun in zergs (melee). There is also a ridiculous amount of unused space in the zone. For what it is it is needlessly big. What I think could possibly help (not all implemented at once but possibly some combined): -More interactive/important objectives possibly with better designed areas around them (instead of a giant open area with some walkers on it). -Base assaults. -Vehicles -Interactive/special use items (mobile spawn points, deployable turrets, etc). -NPC's(think a dota/LoL style situation with waves of npc's pushing lanes towards a base, this could also help with faction imbalance by strengthening the npc's/defensive structures of the weaker faction) Thoughts, criticisms, wish I would die in a car fire? Direct your rage into something constructive while you sit spamming your group buff on your ilum raid camping the republic base. Edited January 23, 2012 by Lina_Inverse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HyperThomas Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Definately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suuke Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Daoc frontiers: Choke points Relics that affected the world (though BW would have to be extremely careful of how they implement this with the current faction imbalances) Strategic base assaults In other words - a reason for us to be out there instaed of running canned wz # 887126482768 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaoslegionX Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Discuss. Personally I think the premise of the zone isn't very fun at all. The objectives don't offer enough of a reason to split up the massive zerg on zerg action because they simply aren't important enough, and not every class has fun in zergs (melee). There is also a ridiculous amount of unused space in the zone. For what it is it is needlessly big. What I think could possibly help (not all implemented at once but possibly some combined): -More interactive/important objectives possibly with better designed areas around them (instead of a giant open area with some walkers on it). -Base assaults. -Vehicles -Interactive/special use items (mobile spawn points, deployable turrets, etc). -NPC's(think a dota/LoL style situation with waves of npc's pushing lanes towards a base, this could also help with faction imbalance by strengthening the npc's/defensive structures of the weaker faction) Thoughts, criticisms, wish I would die in a car fire? Direct your rage into something constructive while you sit spamming your group buff on your ilum raid camping the republic base. So basicaly u want winter grasp ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lina_Inverse Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 Daoc frontiers: Choke points Relics that affected the world (though BW would have to be extremely careful of how they implement this with the current faction imbalances) Strategic base assaults In other words - a reason for us to be out there instaed of running canned wz # 887126482768 Choke points would be great, there are a few in the current design (the south>center tunnel comes to mind) but there's not enough of a reason to have to use them currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lina_Inverse Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) So basicaly u want winter grasp ??? Not really. Personally I'd see a DoTA style map of ongoing assaults. Something more like original alterac valley, but multiple channels of attack to try to alleviate the main problem of the zone which was zerg deadlock due to the single path of pushing. Doesn't mean that would be what's fun for everyone, only the idea I would try to push if I were on the PvP designers committee . Edited January 23, 2012 by Lina_Inverse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragiel Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Im sorry but NO the reason is: THERE IS NO REASON FOR FIGHT ! therefore we have only passive reason (valor) and therefore people will try always ambush it and farm it intead of actually care about anything else. That is leading to end of Illum.. that is leading to NO PVP but PVE valor farm.. THERE HAS TO BE REASON TO FIGHT.. noone will fight without a reason even in real life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaoslegionX Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Not really. Ideally I'd see a DoTA style map of ongoing assaults. Something more like original alterac valley, but multiple channels of attack. I have to say i like the idea of npc pushing, another thing that would make it more balanced is if they did make it like wintergrasp honestly then you would only have 40 on 40 and you wouldent have the faction problem. If they combined old AV with WG it could make for a realy fun place to be New av is retarded its just a zerg to the end first team there wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HyperThomas Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Galaxies had the world PvP system perfect (apart from a couple of class imbalances... irrelevant) I remember everyone wanted to fight for their faction, and see their faction through to victory in each Restuss battle. It was really intense and the whole game was just a massive war that meant something between the 2 factions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suuke Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Not really. Ideally I'd see a DoTA style map of ongoing assaults. Something more like original alterac valley, but multiple channels of attack. Not enough - there needs to be: A reason to go the objective optimal and non-optimal paths to said objective A "feeling" that what your doing impacts or effects the world in some way Adding something like wintergrasp or alteric valley is just another canned wz. What your more avid pvp'ers want is a sandbox env with objectives, choke points and optiaml/non-optimal terrain. Again, they would have to be careful of exactly how they implement this because of faction imbalance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lina_Inverse Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) I have to say i like the idea of npc pushing, another thing that would make it more balanced is if they did make it like wintergrasp honestly then you would only have 40 on 40 and you wouldent have the faction problem. If they combined old AV with WG it could make for a realy fun place to be New av is retarded its just a zerg to the end first team there wins. I was thinking something along the lines of buffing the NPC's/Vehicles/Defenses based on the faction balance would be a good place to start, but obviously a controlled balance situation would be best, with the exception that doing this defeats the OPEN WORLD concept. Buffing players doesn't work well in practice as evidenced by wintergrasp, but buffing npcs might. Also giving some perks like making vehicles cheaper to buy for your faction based on balance, or giving the unbalanced faction more tools to help them deal with being outnumbered (like deployable aoe heals, or turrets, or deployable npc reenforcements) Edited January 23, 2012 by Lina_Inverse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaoslegionX Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Not enough - there needs to be: A reason to go the objective optimal and non-optimal paths to said objective A "feeling" that what your doing impacts or effects the world in some way Adding something like wintergrasp or alteric valley is just another canned wz. What your more avid pvp'ers want is a sandbox env with objectives, choke points and optiaml/non-optimal terrain. Again, they would have to be careful of exactly how they implement this because of faction imbalance Thats why i said if they made it like a WG then only 40 people would be in a fight you wouldent have the faction problem first 40 people to illum play the game one every hour for 20 minutes dailys would get done and it wouldent be cat and mouse all day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phinion Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Ilum has potential... BUT this will depend on what BW does to correct the issues that occur out there. If a dev reads this then I would say there are plenty of posts from players telling you what you could do to try and correct the issues and make Ilum a fun zone to go to. All we can do is post our consturctive fedback and hope (and pray) BW listens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lina_Inverse Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) Not enough - there needs to be: A reason to go the objective optimal and non-optimal paths to said objective A "feeling" that what your doing impacts or effects the world in some way Adding something like wintergrasp or alteric valley is just another canned wz. What your more avid pvp'ers want is a sandbox env with objectives, choke points and optiaml/non-optimal terrain. Again, they would have to be careful of exactly how they implement this because of faction imbalance I agree that incentive is a separate and greater problem than design in the zones. But if you incentivize the objectives in the current design you get objective trading. If you incentivize the kills you get zerg farming. Controlling the zone is also not incentivized AFTER you get the gear(which it should be to encourage an awesome place for end game pvp, especially RvR). My thought is that the current design of the zone doesn't lend itself to a balanced incentive. Also the current design isn't and would not be fun even with faction balance and incentivized objectives. Edited January 23, 2012 by Lina_Inverse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xary Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 There also needs to be towers and other objects to control. The main bases should be that, main bases where you set off from. Heavily defended by NPC's and Turrets. Other mini bases, towers in the Open World could be guild claimable. Thus they would get the spam that so and so is near there base or attacking there base. It should take more then 10 seconds to take out such a base as well. Tanks should be controllable with limited movement. I think just turrets should be controllable and remove the tanks and replace with forward outposts to defend or attack. Players should be allowed to upgrade the keeps, add NPC's of different styles, different turrets that would act like siege. All of this was done in DAOC and it is still being played today. It has yet to go F2P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riulassher Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 DOTA like warzones with NPC infantry/armor waves...now that would be awesome. Ilum battlefield has a great terrain for RVR battles (it's like they took everything great about Black Crag and Dragonwake and put it together), but the current objective system is wasting its potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HyperThomas Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Galaxies had the world PvP system perfect (apart from a couple of class imbalances... irrelevant) I remember everyone wanted to fight for their faction, and see their faction through to victory in each Restuss battle. It was really intense and the whole game was just a massive war that meant something between the 2 factions. Just to add to this point... each faction wanted to control regions because it gave the other faction a slight disadvantage. and stim bases were guarded by factions so they could gain access to unique buffs. Mind you all this worked only because the numbers were pretty much 50/50 across most servers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transcend Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 They need to cut down the map size to about half and perhaps auto join you to an OPS group (allowing you to leave it if you want to group seperately) Otherwise with balanced factions it could e quite fun. Maybe to incentivise people they could make it so that you can loot merc tokens from defeated players (forcing the local OPs group to use a round robin loot system) added to the increased valor gains from capturing points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiozo Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 No becuase the engine this game uses is crap. It will never be able to support a lot of players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jezzikah Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Thats why i said if they made it like a WG then only 40 people would be in a fight you wouldent have the faction problem first 40 people to illum play the game one every hour for 20 minutes dailys would get done and it wouldent be cat and mouse all day The problem with this is that it would still be a one sided fight and would end up being 40vs10 each hour. Putting a cap on players allowed in llum isn't going to fix the lack of republic players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GFWarper Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 1) Objectives are useful at the moment as they stack valor buff for your faction. Even though they are seized with counter productive motivation: you increase the buff for your faction, but you loose all the fun if they fight somewhere else. I think objective seizure should be rewarded somehow. For example, you get 50 valor and a few commendations. 2) Objectives should be protected by NPC squads. For example, 3-5 elites and up to dozen silver mobs. They should stand next to their side point and have ranged abilities to interrupt missile launcher so you'll have to kill them all in order to shoot walkers. No reward should be awarded for the kill apart from normal xp/gold. They are blockers, not the farm object. 3) Limits for sides should be separated. At the moment Ilum has something like 70 ppl limit shared by both sides. It produces imbalance for casual Ilum players. They can not join to losing side to even the odds. Instances of 50 vs. 20 are very common at the moment. There is a psosibility to overcome it with force transfer through ops group, but it works both ways and in the end overcoming regular limit causes disconnects as server doesn't handle late transfer properly. 4) Zone is too big, but players are not encouraged to get through it. You need something weird in your mind to go out of republic/imperial base. For example, if imperial forces pushed to rep base imperial player revive at spawn point near this place. And everyone runs back and forth from rep. base to this spawn and back. Nothing happens in other places. I think respawn point at another base side should be removed and taxi point there should be removed as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogfatherxx Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I think that it would be fun if there were hundreds of people of each faction in the zone. With only 20 people per faction, the zone if far too big to make it exciting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izariel Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Once or twice for a short time the numbers were almost even on Ilum and we had a great time pushing back and forth and both sides getting kills. This is very rare, but it was very fun. Even numbers would make a big difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaoslegionX Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 No becuase the engine this game uses is crap. It will never be able to support a lot of players. Again i go back to saying if they made it like Winter grasp it would only be 40 on 40 no lag no faction issues its there best fix... Now im not saying copy WG they could make i there own thing.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthNemis Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I think it would be fun if the factions were balanced. However, it could be alot more fun with some interesting innovation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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