sol_ Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Irrelevant. LFL own the copyright, they determine what is canon. No he hasn't. He said he doesn't follow the EU, meaning he doesn't personally read every piece of literature that comes out. George Lucas created a sandbox for other creators to play in, it doesn't need to be a part of his personal vision to be canon. BUT Lucas did ask the Clone Wars guys to make up models for Revan and Bane and was going to put them in one of the force-wielder trilogy episodes but they changed their minds at the last second. So Revan ALMOST made it on screen! You can see the behind the scenes video and the Revan model at starwars.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaskava Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 No he hasn't. He said he doesn't follow the EU, meaning he doesn't personally read every piece of literature that comes out. George Lucas created a sandbox for other creators to play in, it doesn't need to be a part of his personal vision to be canon. As I understand it, as long as it doesn't contradict the movies, Star Wars the Clone Wars, or some live-action TV show, without a plausible explanation, then it's all fine and dandy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fyurii Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 BUT Lucas did ask the Clone Wars guys to make up models for Revan and Bane and was going to put them in one of the force-wielder trilogy episodes but they changed their minds at the last second. So Revan ALMOST made it on screen! You can see the behind the scenes video and the Revan model at starwars.com Never know, they may wind up using the Revan & Bane models and materials later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthMoord Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) As I understand it, as long as it doesn't contradict the movies, Star Wars the Clone Wars, or some live-action TV show, without a plausible explanation, then it's all fine and dandy. That's exactly what it is. For example: How do we reconcile 'Super Star Destroyer' with Executor-class Star Dreadnaught'? 'Super Star Destroyer' is a Rebel colloquialism used for any Imperial ship larger than an Imperator/Imperial-class Star Destroyer. There are exceptions, but they were purposefully made to be non-canon. Anything labeled Infinities is non-canon. As I understand it, as long as it doesn't contradict the movies, Star Wars the Clone Wars, or some live-action TV show, without a plausible explanation, then it's all fine and dandy. That's exactly what it is. For example: How do we reconcile 'Super Star Destroyer' with Executor-class Star Dreadnaught'? 'Super Star Destroyer' is a Rebel colloquialism used for any Imperial ship larger than an Imperator/Imperial-class Star Destroyer. There are exceptions, but they were purposefully made to be non-canon. Anything labeled Infinities is non-canon. Some pretty niave posters here. Especially about the lightside and the darkside. These are nothing but "religions" with their own rules and creeds. These are heeded only by choice. darkside powers, lightside powers are the force. The real distinction between light and dark comes with how they are used (motivation, intention) and whether that power is controlled. And that stupid quote that keeps being about the dark path forever dominating your destiny, has nothing to do with using darkside powers, its about darkside powers using/consuming the user. Many Force users use both, Revan, Kyle Katarn, Jaiden, Anakin, Luke and the list goes on This is explicitly contradicted by G-canon. You can not be a good guy and use the Dark side. I know it's fun to inject some moral ambiguity to fiction nowadays, but Star Wars is very much reminiscent of High Fantasy by being very much a battle between good and evil. The Lightside and Darkside are not merely tools. Edited February 1, 2012 by DarthMoord Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalliadies Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) This is explicitly contradicted by G-canon. You can not be a good guy and use the Dark side. I know it's fun to inject some moral ambiguity to fiction nowadays, but Star Wars is very much reminiscent of High Fantasy by being very much a battle between good and evil. The Lightside and Darkside are not merely tools. and yet, it IS in the games, it IS in the EU, and it IS in the movies (see Mace Windu, Revered Jedi Champion). I might add that these also have to have a Lucas Arts stamp of approval. If you take the basis for Lucas’s fantasy world, it was a reflection on religion. Edited February 2, 2012 by Kalliadies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borisius Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 best part of the game, melting ravens face Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuraJurai Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 shame he didn’t die and meetra lived she's a way better character the only flaw kotor 2 had was that it was unfinished but its still better then kotor 1 but of course bioware is unable to remain unbiased they of course save their own character over anything produced from superior writing ….obsidian entertainment's take on revan was far superior to anything the original author wrote about him and frankly I don't care how many novels that guy has written it was RUBBISH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fyurii Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 and yet, it IS in the games, it IS in the EU, and it IS in the movies (see Mace Windu, Revered Jedi Champion). I might add that these also have to have a Lucas Arts stamp of approval. If you take the basis for Lucas’s fantasy world, it was a reflection on religion. That kind of thing was before it was made canon that good guys can't use Dark Side. With Luke in RoTJ, that was a deliberate thing along with his clothing. Most people's misconception of what a Gray Jedi is, neutral to Dark or Light and able to draw from both, was debunked some time ago, including the "it's about the intent behind the use" of Force powers. The Power of The Jedi sourcebook states that the Potentium view of The Force is a corrupt and misguided philosophy, and no other canon source has disputed it as far as I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevengeLobster Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) I think one thing that people are getting wrong is the whole "Its how you intend to use a force power that makes it light or dark." That is close, but still wrong. It is not the power's intent that is light or dark but more of the intent that enables the power of light/dark. When using dark side force powers they are fueled by anger and hate and that is what gives them the ability to use force lightning and such. You cannot commonly use these powers if you are at peace or serenity. The only exception there has ever been to this is Plo Koon's Electric Judgement, which was a green force lightning that did not use anger or hate to power it. On the part of Revan, he was a very powerful Jedi/Sith lord, just not the most powerful. There have been and will be those who are a lot more powerful than he but it was not just his personal power that made him such a force to be reckoned with. His death or escape is intentionally left open ended and he was defeated by four of the strongest members of the empire. It was a boss fight just like any other KOTOR game just flipped around. In this case The PC's = Revan's team in KOTOR and Revan = Malak. I would also like to toss my two cents on the idea of the mastery of both sides of the force. While you cannot be both light and dark at the same time you can use both sides powers. Since the darkside is actually just a corruption of the force it is never even once stated that you are unable to use light side powers once you become dark (to my knowledge). Revan was clearly a master of the Light side force abilities and also mastered the art of Dark side force powers and can use them both powerfully. Does this mean that Revan is some kind of in between light and dark side character? I would say absolutely not. His "balance" is more of his ability to keep his motives and morals relatively at peace and good after channeling the dark side of the force. He clearly is doing things that most jedi would not do but is also not a blood hungry sith. In my eyes Revan would be darkside aligned but has just enough willpower and strength to not fall off the edge into being full blown sith. It is like a balance between balance and corruption if that makes any sense at all. I would also like to add that while Yoda was incredibly wise, his quote does not mean it is a definite truth but more of what he has experienced and believed. There are many mysteries to the force and even Yoda does not know everything about it. That's what makes the force so mysterious and great. Edited February 2, 2012 by RevengeLobster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnusheart Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) You can see a lot of hate from Bioware towards Obsidian's Kotor 2 Characters. All the refrences I can find. Meetra(Exile char u play in Kotor2) when her ghost appears she talks as if she is handicaped. No Refrence to Kreia the first and last teacher of Revan. No refrence to the most Taboo ability of the force. Being a Wound in the Force. (Exile, Nihilus etc ability after witnessing the amounds of death at Malachor V. No Assassins or refrence to the Sith Assassins that hunted Jedi through the force. Only refrence to Darth Sion is a Lightsaber Darth Nihilus is no where to be found and his powers are similar to the Emperor in therms of destroying a whole planet leaving it dead with the force. Atris is refrenced via a offhand Saber. List of names, items and locations as realm lists prob because Kotor2 is considered Canon. I REALLY loved how many refrences there were to Kotor 1. Since my original disks were destroyed in a flood all I have left is Kotor2 so I got to remember a lot of things I forgotten. I just wish they gave a bit more respect for Kotor 2 story in terms of refrence and history quotations like they did for Kotor 1 characters Edited February 2, 2012 by Magnusheart spellin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterSenci Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I play a lot of RPG's and find the reason I give players to be the best one I could say here (not having made it to this point in the game as of yet). A player controlled character is supposed to be a champion, the underdog in most cases, and to be able to fight and best a god (or god-like) foe at some point. It's not always going to be easy, and when I write the stories I try to know what level and items they will have by the time they met what I put before them so that they have a chance. Could a lvl 1 beat down a fully grown red dragon in D&D, very unlikely, but ya can have him run into him early on to get a glimpse of what awaits, ya can weaken the dragon so that the player has a chance or have the dragon be overconfident when they do fight and make errors, and so on. In any case, its gonna be hard to guess at how to make a fight challenging when ya have to consider a few thousand players and won't be able to challenge them all or make them all happy with the outcome. As for having Revan show back up 300 years later, I think they did a good job of completing his story since all they left him at was walking off into the galaxy never to be heard from again. Not all stories will end with happy endings after all, and a hero will either die during the heroics or live long enough for the next generation of "heroes/villains" to come along and finish the job. This is another point I make for the games I run, when the end of a campaign is there, don't expect to have a happy ending because whatever happens now will probably be destroyed for the next story to continue (i.e. ya build a castle someone will eventually knock it down, enjoy the peace while it lasts). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deviss Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) shame he didn’t die and meetra lived she's a way better character the only flaw kotor 2 had was that it was unfinished but its still better then kotor 1 but of course bioware is unable to remain unbiased they of course save their own character over anything produced from superior writing ….obsidian entertainment's take on revan was far superior to anything the original author wrote about him and frankly I don't care how many novels that guy has written it was RUBBISH It's suprising to see that there are people who loved KotOR2 and hated the original KotOR and the opposite - people that are so called "KotOR fanboys" that claim KotOR2 to be crap. As for me, I am huge fanboy of both games - they are great and opinion which one of them is better is totally subjective. I personally prefered KotOR but as I said, it's totally subjective which game you consider "better" and more enjoyable. SW:TOR is BioWare game so I do not understand why you are so upset. It's pretty damn logical that BioWare will focus to greater extent on the character it developed. In fact I was a bit surprised that the Jedi Exile was put in the game and included in SW:TOR lore. She played very important part, without her Revan would probably have not managed to resist the Sith Emperor for three centuries and his fall to the dark side would be unavoidable, only to become the Emperor's pawn once again. Foundry in the Emperor's hands could "exterminate civilizations" and wipe out Republic thus bringing him closer to his ultimate goal - wiping out entire life in the galaxy. You can see a lot of hate from Bioware towards Obsidian's Kotor 2 Characters. All the refrences I can find. Meetra(Exile char u play in Kotor2) when her ghost appears she talks as if she is handicaped. No Refrence to Kreia the first and last teacher of Revan. No refrence to the most Taboo ability of the force. Being a Wound in the Force. (Exile, Nihilus etc ability after witnessing the amounds of death at Malachor V. No Assassins or refrence to the Sith Assassins that hunted Jedi through the force. Only refrence to Darth Sion is a Lightsaber Darth Nihilus is no where to be found and his powers are similar to the Emperor in therms of destroying a whole planet leaving it dead with the force. Atris is refrenced via a offhand Saber. List of names, items and locations as realm lists prob because Kotor2 is considered Canon. I REALLY loved how many refrences there were to Kotor 1. Since my original disks were destroyed in a flood all I have left is Kotor2 so I got to remember a lot of things I forgotten. I just wish they gave a bit more respect for Kotor 2 story in terms of refrence and history quotations like they did for Kotor 1 characters As far as KotOR 2 references go - as I said before, SW:TOR is game developed by BioWare and KotOR 2 was not BioWare game. While getting more references to Obsidian's game would be nice, I don't hold any grudge against BioWare for focusing more on Revan and KotOR. Tbh, I prefer it this way because I liked KotOR more (don't get me wrong, I am huge fan of both games, just feel more attached to Revan and the original KotOR for some reason). Oh and I almost forgot, Kreia is in fact mentioned in the game. So I suggest you don't comment about things like lack of KotOR2 references, before you complete the full game. for yourself. Don't know if you played the Sith Warrior storyline but she is The Entity that was imprisoned by Darth Baras. While it is not confirmed that The Entity is Kreia, her codex entry fits KotOR's 2 main antagonist just perfectly thus making it very likely it is her. "Darth Baras's rise to power has been facilitated by his enslavement of a Sith spirit known only as the Entity. Baras dominated this centuries-dead Sith into using her powers of precognition and farseeing to aid his ascendancy onto the Dark Council while plotting the destruction of all enemies in his path. The Entity chafes at her enslavement, desperately seeking freedom from this ignoble fate. Centuries ago, she nearly brought the galaxy to its knees and all but eradicated the Jedi Order; to be used as a mere political tool by Darth Baras is an insult to these past deeds." I believe that she will play very important part in SW:TOR's storyline, only time will tell if my theory is correct. Edited February 2, 2012 by Deviss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuraJurai Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) The worse crime is that they totally changed events all in revan's favour Meetra went from Jedi General of the Mandalorian wars and reformer of the Jedi Order to a near no body simply because the author did not create her and he blatantly disregards anything said in kotor 2 is obvious ..... Where he wanders now he could not take anyone he loves – Kreia ..... hmm so why does he have a full party yet Meetra's party has 0 ? biased much ? Yet they have the arrogance to claim this is the same universe as kotor only 300 years late … what a fraud This just shows a lack of professionalism that I would not expect from the Official bioware writer in fact anyone who is not able to bring all elements set before them into harmony and a good story has no right to pick up the pen as they are obviously unfit to write in the epic universe that is starwars bioware should frankly be ashamed of them self ever since they got bought by Electronic Art there games have been shallow and incomplete I'm sure the fanbois will defend the game and bioware's ridiculous decisions in story design another company did the same blunder Square Enix made a world with FF 14 that was not what people expect you know what happened? The whole developer team was fired and the game totally redesigned I wish the same fate on bioware as they have lost any spark they have with this rubbish and its a insult to the fans of the original game series to me Game Canon is the same as movie canon novels cannot overwrite game canon I wanted Kotor 3 but they gave me this poorly written game full of revan fanaticism and biased decision making I'll most likely get a infraction for this post as bioware don't like people posting the truth Edited February 2, 2012 by AuraJurai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matais Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 the worse crime is that they totally changed events all in revan's favour meetra went from jedi general of the mandalorian wars and reformer of the jedi order to a near no body simply because the author did not create her and he blatantly disregards anything said in kotor 2 is obvious ..... Where he wanders now he could not take anyone he loves – kreia ..... Hmm so why does he have a full party yet meetra's party has 0 ? Biased much ? Yet they have the arrogance to claim this is the same universe as kotor only 300 years late … what a fraud this just shows a lack of professionalism that i would not expect from the official bioware writer in fact anyone who is not able to bring all elements set before them into harmony and a good story has no right to pick up the pen as they are obviously unfit to write in the epic universe that is starwars bioware should frankly be ashamed of them self ever since they got bought by electronic art there games have been shallow and incomplete i'm sure the fanbois will defend the game and bioware's ridiculous decisions in story design another company did the same blunder square enix made a world with ff 14 that was not what people expect you know what happened? The whole developer team was fired and the game totally redesigned i wish the same fate on bioware as they have lost any spark they have with this rubbish and its a insult to the fans of the original game series To me game canon is the same as movie canon novels cannot overwrite game canon i wanted kotor 3 but they gave me this poorly written game full of revan fanaticism and biased decision making i'll most likely get a infraction for this post as bioware don't like people posting the truth thank you! Someone finally said it besides me! Why does no one care about quality anymore! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxetius Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 The entity is an obvious Kreia reference. But Let the RAGeE continue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalliadies Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) That kind of thing was before it was made canon that good guys can't use Dark Side. With Luke in RoTJ, that was a deliberate thing along with his clothing. Most people's misconception of what a Gray Jedi is, neutral to Dark or Light and able to draw from both, was debunked some time ago, including the "it's about the intent behind the use" of Force powers. The Power of The Jedi sourcebook states that the Potentium view of The Force is a corrupt and misguided philosophy, and no other canon source has disputed it as far as I know. Im having trouble with the whole good guys cant do bad things (use dark side). Its absurd. Thats really what it comes down to. For something that is said to be "fact" that totally obliterates many favoured characters. Hell it even makes it boring. Edited February 2, 2012 by Kalliadies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthMoord Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Im having trouble with the whole good guys cant do bad things (use dark side). Its absurd. Thats really what it comes down to. For something that is said to be "fact" that totally obliterates many favoured characters. Hell it even makes it boring. They can do bad things, they just stop being good guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greah Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I might have missed this so bare with me. Again - massive spoilers for some. So Imperials fight Revan in their FP. Supposedly... beat him down to death. So how is it that in the republic Flashpoint Malestrom Prison we save him? Perhaps the Imperial Flashpoint takes place after the Republic Flashpoint? Any one have an answer to this? Thanks in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angry-broom Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) I might have missed this so bare with me. Again - massive spoilers for some. So Imperials fight Revan in their FP. Supposedly... beat him down to death. So how is it that in the republic Flashpoint Malestrom Prison we save him? Perhaps the Imperial Flashpoint takes place after the Republic Flashpoint? Any one have an answer to this? Thanks in advance Yea, republic frees him, empire go and fight him, not known if hes dead, since drew said they changed it since beta so he disapeears, leaving it open in case they want to bring it back, theres a few quotes of this out there, think there was one in the revan after the foundry thread or something Edited February 3, 2012 by angry-broom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoraQuasar Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 He's not dead until I see a corpse, man... or at least his hp touching 0% same exact thing i said to my guildies when we defeted him. no corpse or it didn't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greah Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Thanks guys had me worried. I wonder though. Which flashpoint is suppose to happen first in the storyline? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angry-broom Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Thanks guys had me worried. I wonder though. Which flashpoint is suppose to happen first in the storyline? Taral V, Maelstrom Prison, Boarding Party, The Foundry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthMoord Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 same exact thing i said to my guildies when we defeted him. no corpse or it didn't happen. Yeah, clearly not dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonobiwan Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Keep it spoiler lite but do you get to see the revan story if you are republic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fyurii Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Keep it spoiler lite but do you get to see the revan story if you are republic? It's a Republic Flashpoint that has Revan being rescued/released. The Imperial one takes place after (chronologically) and has the players defeating him, and apparently killing him. It's divided between the factions, as is pretty much all the story and lore outside of the Class stories. To encourage playing both factions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts