Bertlast Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 You may say it's perfectly legit, but it's also perfectly ironic. The two sides farming each other for valor so that they can get better pvp gear...to pvp? Why not just pvp right here and now? Most fun I've had in Ilum to date was breaking up a kill trading group last night. They would swap instances and our group would have to go find their hiding spot and disrupt it again. It felt like there was an actual purpose and motivation to pvp'ing. Then after both sides gave up trying to kill trade, actual pvp commensed. Amazing concept, I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therouterninja Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 It's not an exploit. These players are operating in the parameters of the code. exploit definition "A security hole or an instance of taking advantage of a security hole. " My personal thoughts on the matter: 1. On some servers, valor farming may be the only way for republic to get to BM with faction ratio. 2. I still kill bm geared people just as fine with champ gear. With a 5% increase, skill and experience can easily offset. People who cheated their way to BM have sacrificed experience for instant gratification. 3. Why do people care so much what others do? If bioware allows it, then go ahead and do it...or don't. There's a great satisfaction that comes from jumping in at lv.50, getting your *** handed to you by some bm geared people, and then a few weeks later handing it right back to them in champion gear. 4. All things eventually balance themselves out. If you're lv.50 and close to bm, you're probably in a guild, and pvp as a premade i'm guessing. In a month or two, everyone will be BM anyways, and the gap will close. On my server, repub constantly stomps imperials. They vastly outgeared us at first, but when we caught up, we rolled them. I like to thing being the underdog in each match taught us how to play better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saido Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 It's not an exploit. These players are operating in the parameters of the code. exploit definition "A security hole or an instance of taking advantage of a security hole. " My personal thoughts on the matter: 1. On some servers, valor farming may be the only way for republic to get to BM with faction ratio. 2. I still kill bm geared people just as fine with champ gear. With a 5% increase, skill and experience can easily offset. People who cheated their way to BM have sacrificed experience for instant gratification. 3. Why do people care so much what others do? If bioware allows it, then go ahead and do it...or don't. There's a great satisfaction that comes from jumping in at lv.50, getting your *** handed to you by some bm geared people, and then a few weeks later handing it right back to them in champion gear. 4. All things eventually balance themselves out. If you're lv.50 and close to bm, you're probably in a guild, and pvp as a premade i'm guessing. In a month or two, everyone will be BM anyways, and the gap will close. On my server, repub constantly stomps imperials. They vastly outgeared us at first, but when we caught up, we rolled them. I like to thing being the underdog in each match taught us how to play better Correct. Technically -- it's not an exploit. It's bad game design. The net result may be the same however: using something in an unintended manner for gain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masahiko Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 And thus we need a third faction that will come in and farm both of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celebrus Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) Correct. Technically -- it's not an exploit. It's bad game design. The net result may be the same however: using something in an unintended manner for gain. The net result seems more like this: losing subs. If there is no prestige in having high valor, there is no purpose in having high valor. If there is no purpose, there is no draw. If there is no draw, the system dies. Think about it. If you could farm your way to a glad title and ranking on wow by organizing events outside of orgrimmar between alliance and horde, do you think anyone would arena for it? No. And thus we have an explanation why there should be no player benefit or gain WHATSOEVER from open world pvp. If they hadn't allowed any valor from Ilum kills, and had only used kills to gain daily credit, we would still be using Ilum to get dailies, and legitimate battlemasters wouldn't be laughed at because they wasted their time for a pointless title. I almost feel sorry for the people that grinded their valor through warzones. This is the part that cracks me up about his post though, is when the CSR says "If a group of level 50 Imperial and Republic players coordinate to meet up on Ilum to "farm" valor points by trading kills isnt consider an exploit since you guys will still be doing PvP and you guys arent doing anything that is not intended for the game." Not only does the CSR apparently completely fail at punctuation "isnt" but he also apparently hasn't graduated elementary school with that terrible level of grammar. It's almost amusing to actually believe that this is a real response. I mean really? "since you guys will still be doing PvP" you actually expect me to believe a CSR addressed your problem with the phrase "you guys will still be doing PvP"? Not maybe something like "Since both groups would still be engaging in Player vs Player activities." or something else grammatically correct? Edited February 17, 2012 by Celebrus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makhbet Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 It's not an exploit, it's a feature! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therouterninja Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 The net result seems more like this: losing subs. While I wish this were true, some basic laws of economics would indicate that more people benefited by this than were screwed. These people with the advantage are more likely to stay, so if we assume there were people who were on the fence about staying, more people would be tipped in the favor of staying subbed(would you leave a club if someone gave you free drinks?). Also at lv50, people are much less likely to unsub seeing as how they already invested so much time and energy. The fact of the matter is by any measurable indicator, SWTOR is a success. It's grown farther than any MMO to date, and has 1.7 million active subscribers. The people who are saying this MMO is a failure are just trying to spread FUD because they want to get their way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHawtRhino Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I call FAKE .... The grammar on that CS response is horrid ... "you guys", really? Not to mention that run on sentence that is the middle paragraph. Nice try though! This. First of all, I've NEVER had a human response from a ticket. Second, I have NEVER seen any improper English or grammar in tickets. Those images are fake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahhmyface Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) While I wish this were true, some basic laws of economics would indicate that more people benefited by this than were screwed. These people with the advantage are more likely to stay, so if we assume there were people who were on the fence about staying, more people would be tipped in the favor of staying subbed(would you leave a club if someone gave you free drinks?). Also at lv50, people are much less likely to unsub seeing as how they already invested so much time and energy. The fact of the matter is by any measurable indicator, SWTOR is a success. It's grown farther than any MMO to date, and has 1.7 million active subscribers. The people who are saying this MMO is a failure are just trying to spread FUD because they want to get their way. Nonsense. Believe it or not, benefit is relative. If everyone is battlemaster, nobody is battlemaster. You're not going to satisfy anyone's sense of progress when they realize even killtrading hasn't fixed pvp. I swear modern gamers have no foresight. So you kill trade because there's no pvp, and then what? Who are you going to use your fancy gear on if there's no pvp? What as the point of getting the gear in the first place? Edited February 17, 2012 by Ahhmyface Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raggok Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 It's got the feeling of a rushed solution that was tacked on. (which it probably was) I am of the more Libretarian leaning in MMO's. As long as your fun doesn't inturrupt my fun I am really unintrested in what 'rules your break'. Let's see if you feel the same way when the people who traded to get valor 70 and 80 get valor 70 and valor 80 gear before you. If you didn't trade to keep up, that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moomtazz Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Kids these days...sheeshe! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celebrus Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) Nonsense. Believe it or not, benefit is relative. If everyone is battlemaster, nobody is battlemaster. You're not going to satisfy anyone's sense of progress when they realize even killtrading hasn't fixed pvp. I swear modern gamers have no foresight. So you kill trade because there's no pvp, and then what? Who are you going to use your fancy gear on if there's no pvp? What as the point of getting the gear in the first place? This. We trade kills in order to get gear in order to trade more kills because there is no living pvp system in this game. Ignorance must be bliss.....you guys. Edited February 17, 2012 by Celebrus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokivoid Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I was curious one day and submitted a ticket asking for clarification about valor "farming", this is what I got back: Beginning: http://i.imgur.com/sex0Y.jpg Middle: http://i.imgur.com/chI7l.jpg End: http://i.imgur.com/fOkN6.jpg If you want the explanation, it's in the middle image, the other two are given just to show I didn't somehow photoshop this. Anyways, if you were worried you would be reprimanded for trading kills on Ilum, it's not gonna happen, so get some friends together and feel free (remember, this is not referring to the base camping that occurred on Ilum immediately after patch 1.1, this is valor farming between two consenting parties). Perhaps this will make people less sheepish if they were thinking of doing this to acquire battlemaster. We can get into a whole discussion of whether, even though this is legit, it's the "right" thing to do as a player from an ethical view, but I'd rather save that for another time. Just pointing the whole situation out. Cheers As an aside, this is what valor farming entails: Kill swapping as been confirmed as legal sense 1.1 released, nothing new. No clue why you posted a ticket for something that has already been awnsered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theforceiswithu Posted February 18, 2012 Author Share Posted February 18, 2012 (edited) edit. Edited February 24, 2012 by theforceiswithu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theforceiswithu Posted March 2, 2012 Author Share Posted March 2, 2012 UPDATE as of March 1: Gabe Amatangelo affirms that Ilum kill-trading is not a bannable offence, even though he personally sees it as a frowned upon activity; if you would like to see where he states this, watch this video and start it at 5:06 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaed Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Nonsense. Believe it or not, benefit is relative. If everyone is battlemaster, nobody is battlemaster. You're not going to satisfy anyone's sense of progress when they realize even killtrading hasn't fixed pvp. I swear modern gamers have no foresight. So you kill trade because there's no pvp, and then what? Who are you going to use your fancy gear on if there's no pvp? What as the point of getting the gear in the first place? I only really kill trade for the Ilum dailies. Mainly because I can play Pokemon while trading, which I can't do while collecting armaments. 1.1.5 will fix that for me though. In fact, with 2k+ valor per WZ, kill trading might become obsolete for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellczar Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 until i see a dev post on the forums confirming . i don't believe anything i get in game from GM's they are brainless idiots 99% of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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