Chiltonium Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I dont even see rate thread, and no. no thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arctorius Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Thats because if they do not pull "their" weight as you say they should you just boot them from the group so they can never improve. I'm pretty sure I said they should be able to take constructive criticism... checking checking... And frankly people who don't pull their weight and can't take constructive criticism about how to improve their group play shouldn't be doing groups. Hmm yup there it is. Constructive criticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicalPremise Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I understand that most "casual" players don't want a damage meter just simply because they will be more likely the ones pulling lower dps, and will likely be kicked from a group, that is not a reason why you should torment other group members for hours with wipes. If you are casual, and can't pull your own weight in a more "pro" group, just simply leave the group and find like-minded people and wipe for 5 hours, I promise you nobody will then b*t#h at you. Hint: Casuals don't raid. Never have. Hint: Low DPS on DPS classes is pretty obvious. Damage meters are the first step toward the people with more ePeen than skill gaining the upper hand. Again -- when I have to be geared better than gear I can get in a Raid to join the raid, then the system is borked. Having participated through NM raids, I'm thinking if you're still wiping at this point, you're just all pack of bads. We've (the community) cleared almost everything without any tools to speak of at all (except Soa, but he's buggier than an ant nest, so no surprises there). If you're a bad, and can't put together a competent group, just simply go back to playing Normal Mode and find other bads and tell yourself you're a "leet". I promise everyone will be laughing at you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humidd Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 YEP! /char Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leiloni Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Out of game parser or personal only damage meter that you can choose to share, or both. In-game real-time group meter. No. Too much abuse by people that don't understand game mechanics thinking that number is the end all be all of skill. No WoW style DPS meters. What the above player suggests is what I'd be ok with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiltonium Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 seriously, where the hell is rate thread? I just see post reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arctorius Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 seriously, where the hell is rate thread? I just see post reply. You have to post a reply to see the rate at the bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sai-to Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Can you be more selfish? So what you are saying is that you are fine with your group wiping for 2 hours on a boss because you can't pull your own weight? Way to waste other people's time. No group wipes on a boss in an Operation for 2 hours just because of one person. Flashpoints can be wiped because of only one person, but only if that person is a bad Tank or Healer. This kind of attitude is exactly what the poster you responded to is disgusted by. People will see someone doing 10% less damage than someone else, and immediately blame them for any problems, usually resulting in a kick. While it's very true that you should blame the user, not the tool... certain tools act as ENABLERS of horrible behavior. Real-time meters are one of those. Personally, when I see group leaders kick someone for being slightly less "par" than another, I put the leader on my /ignore list then leave the group as well. Unfortunately... it makes you fill up your ignore list REALLY fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tripleseven Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 posting for rating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiltonium Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 You have to post a reply to see the rate at the bottom. this is my third reply >_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keihryon Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) Nope... Logs are enough And with logs people will create Out of Game Parsers why can't these be enough? because a lot of the people crying for the in-game meter don't really understand how to run such programs and would not be able to f@p their epeen as readily. Again, the abuse of such tools by tools that don't understand game mechanics thinking that number is the end all be all of skill, is why i say no. Edited January 23, 2012 by Keihryon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nindoriel Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) Can you be more selfish? So what you are saying is that you are fine with your group wiping for 2 hours on a boss because you can't pull your own weight? Way to waste other people's time. Never said I can't "pull my own weight". When I wrote "100dps" I wanted to pick a small number to emphasize, that there are people being nit-picky, and that insult you for every small and minor mistake you make. There's people in MMOs, who will monitor everything you do, and comment on it, even when it's not neccessary. In other MMOS - ok let's just say WoW, people often blame the dps, when the problem lies elsewhere. And of course there's so many situations, where dps needs to be interpreted correctly, like what are the circumstances. This game should not be about whether your dps is 10% higher than the other people in your group. I enjoyed it very much in Lotro. Nobody really cares about dps. If something doesn't work, you try again and don't point fingers at people for not doing the right amount of damage, when the problem most likely is bad coordination. It's much more free and much more fun. BUT, like I said, I have no problem with everybody being able to monitor their own dps, stats or whatever. Edited January 23, 2012 by Nindoriel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arctorius Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 this is my third reply >_< And one of those times you replied you should have scrolled to the bottom of the page before selecting "Submit reply" where you see a dropdown box that allows you to rate the post 1-5 and says "If you like, you can add a score for this thread." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiltonium Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 ah thanks, never even knew that existed XD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baastila Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 And I can't understand how people think just because someone doesn't want it that they automatically suck at playing the game. Or that because someone is a "casual" gamer they are bad players. And actually, if you can't figure out what works best for you by observing how much easier/harder something becomes without such a tool, you aren't as good as you think you are. <~is a general statement not necessarily made to the above poster. I'll reiterate, too much abuse of these tools by people that don't understand the games mechanics and think that the number is the end all be all of skill. You do more dmg/healing under 2 conditions: 1)More skill 2)More gear You can be as skill as you want to be, but you ain't gonna beat somebody in Rakata gear with 50's leveling gear. That being said, if 2 players with same gears, the one doing more damage obviously is more skilled (under MOST conditions). I'm not saying people who don't want a DM are all bad at the game, what I'm saying is that they shouldn't be afraid to have a DM. Without a DM, nobody knows if they are doing good damage or bad. It is also used to evaluate which spec works better. No matter how much they balance the game, a specific spec is going to be better than another one, it is as simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baastila Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 No group wipes on a boss in an Operation for 2 hours just because of one person. Flashpoints can be wiped because of only one person, but only if that person is a bad Tank or Healer. This kind of attitude is exactly what the poster you responded to is disgusted by. People will see someone doing 10% less damage than someone else, and immediately blame them for any problems, usually resulting in a kick. While it's very true that you should blame the user, not the tool... certain tools act as ENABLERS of horrible behavior. Real-time meters are one of those. Personally, when I see group leaders kick someone for being slightly less "par" than another, I put the leader on my /ignore list then leave the group as well. Unfortunately... it makes you fill up your ignore list REALLY fast. There is something called enrage timer. Tanks and healers don't cause that. You can't tell a tank or a healer "do more damage". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baastila Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 No, he is saying he is tired of needledicks blowing gaskets over 100 dps. If you are wiping over that, then DM won't fix your problem. Obviously he is the selfish one because Bioware decided not to put DM in the game, right? So you are saying who cares how much dps a person does, right? Since dps really isn't a concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valethar Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Wow, look at all the elitist estrogen all over the place. Amazing how something like this can make all the trolls froth at the mouth. And people wonder why there is so much hate towards meters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belgaer Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Not sure on this one. People would have their cookie cutter party/operation setups for Flashpoints and Operations and then classes that aren't ideal would get the shaft. Pretty sure a DPS Assassin (my main) wouldn't fit it because it's not retardedly easy to play like some other DPS classes are. So the class would be considered "not as good" and then shunned, when it actually has potential to be better if played right. I've seen it in other MMOs and I seem to have a tendency to pick classes like this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipVanWinkleX Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 no no no no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arctorius Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) There is something called enrage timer. Tanks and healers don't cause that. You can't tell a tank or a healer "do more damage". QFT Furthermore most damage meters record more than damage. Things like Damage Taken and Dispels can be very helpful. If the boss has something that needs to be dispelled and only one person is getting rid of it, acknowledging that issue and resolving it is that much easier. Edited January 23, 2012 by Arctorius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baastila Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Hint: Casuals don't raid. Never have. Hint: Low DPS on DPS classes is pretty obvious. Damage meters are the first step toward the people with more ePeen than skill gaining the upper hand. Again -- when I have to be geared better than gear I can get in a Raid to join the raid, then the system is borked. Having participated through NM raids, I'm thinking if you're still wiping at this point, you're just all pack of bads. We've (the community) cleared almost everything without any tools to speak of at all (except Soa, but he's buggier than an ant nest, so no surprises there). If you're a bad, and can't put together a competent group, just simply go back to playing Normal Mode and find other bads and tell yourself you're a "leet". I promise everyone will be laughing at you. So you are saying people who are more dedicated to raiding should carry less skilled players through contents since "leet" players shouldn't exist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabjat Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 You do more dmg/healing under 2 conditions: 1)More skill 2)More gear You can be as skill as you want to be, but you ain't gonna beat somebody in Rakata gear with 50's leveling gear. That being said, if 2 players with same gears, the one doing more damage obviously is more skilled (under MOST conditions). I'm not saying people who don't want a DM are all bad at the game, what I'm saying is that they shouldn't be afraid to have a DM. Without a DM, nobody knows if they are doing good damage or bad. It is also used to evaluate which spec works better. No matter how much they balance the game, a specific spec is going to be better than another one, it is as simple as that. Then maybe you should keep the aggression out of your posts. This is a hot button issue and when you say things like, If you are casual, and can't pull your own weight in a more "pro" group, just simply leave the group and find like-minded people and wipe for 5 hours, I promise you nobody will then b*t#h at you. you are likely to have people assuming you are part of the problem. I myself am FOR damage meters being allowed in-game, but I can CERTAINLY understand the sentiment of those who DO NOT wish for them. It's people like you who get rabid and start screaming at how badly they suck and in general making assumptions about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keihryon Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) You do more dmg/healing under 2 conditions: 1)More skill 2)More gear You can be as skill as you want to be, but you ain't gonna beat somebody in Rakata gear with 50's leveling gear. That being said, if 2 players with same gears, the one doing more damage obviously is more skilled (under MOST conditions). I'm not saying people who don't want a DM are all bad at the game, what I'm saying is that they shouldn't be afraid to have a DM. Without a DM, nobody knows if they are doing good damage or bad. It is also used to evaluate which spec works better. No matter how much they balance the game, a specific spec is going to be better than another one, it is as simple as that. It's not fear, if it were fear I imagine my eyes would be wider. ~Simon Tam I'm not going to debate this with you because you firmly believe they are needed, while I don't. You won't change my mind and I won't change yours. I'm not afraid of meters, despite what you'd like to think, I just don't think they are necessary and usually tend to ruin gameplay for people like myself. Those who enjoy playing by learning through doing, and not being told. Edited January 23, 2012 by Keihryon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJixlee Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 no ty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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