The main reason PvP in SWTOR absolutely and miserably failed

[erdadi]

And the reason is...

 

The PVE lead designer and PVP lead designer of this game are THE SAME PERSON! Just it. Gabe Amatangelo, who is the Principal Lead PvP, Operations & Flashpoints Designer.

 

Serously, if you have had a person leading the PvP and a different one leading the PvE this would have been totally different. I mean, you could have had a nice PvP.

 

With the PvP implementation this person designed you have a PvP where it has no sense to play. I don't go to Ilum to kill an enemy because I won't get anything from killing that person. It has no sense doing open PvP because:

 

1. There is no reward. I expected to have some kind of Realm Points (nice Daoc times...) to change them for any kind of PvP gear such as medpacks, siege weapons, transport tickets, buffs, mounts, pets, and a large etc. that a good PvP designer could have thought in.
   
2. The valor range is totally useless. The valor range could have had sense if you would earn points to spent in any kind of PvP abilities. Think on ignore pain, purge, passive stats augments, and a large etc that a good PvP designer could have thought in.
   
3. There are not objectives to defent, and not, those ridiculous transport vehicles to destroy are not objectives. Think on vigilance towers, camps, forts, and a large etc that a good PvP designer could have thought in.
   
4. The guilds in the PvP system this guy has thought have not sense. If there would be objectives, a guild could have claimed them with its guild banner and colours (OH WAIT, THERE ARE NOT GUILD EMBLEMS IN THIS GAME!!). Also, ther could be a guild ranking in PvP deaths or points, or something, something more than NOTHING!
   
5. As there are not objectives to defend, there are not any to attak and siege it. Think of things that could have been implemented if there would be objectives: siege weapons such as lasers, rocket launchers, machine guns, shields, transport vehicles and a large etc that a good PvP designer could have thought in.
   
6. Classes are totally unbalanced. One of the main objectives of Daoc and WAR was to balance the classes in the game to play a good PVP, they did it until the end. This game has the major unbalance between classes I have seen for years, and you don't do anything to solve it.
   
7. There is only 1 PvP map (Ilum) but it can only host... 100 persons? per instance. It makes the open PvP player to lose every game persisting feeling, it is just like a warzone but a bit bigger... The map design is not very good, and the Ilum environment is very... ugly. Any Warhammer Online map could have been better than Ilum.
   

 

GUYS THIS IS STAR WARS! You may have a moderatelly good PVE, but the PvP you have designed for this game is TOTALLY C R A P, the worst I have ever seen in any MMO, and I have played MMOs for 14 years.

 

I could keep enumerating things that the PvP system of this game is missing, but that is not my work, I have paid to play the game and I have not found the things I was expecting to find in the PvP of SWTOR. Hopefully Guild Wars 2 will exceed all my expectations.

 

Now, with your nice un-tested PvP patches you have a base of about 30% players that have reached the maximum Valor rank (60) by just doing what you have suggested to do with your patch. What are those players supposed to do now? (1 month after the game release, remember it)

 

You must know that players in a MMO are like the lemmings, they just do what you allow them to do, not what you expect them to do, and you have failed (or you have not played Lemmings enough when you were young)

 

I had very high expectations on this game because BioWare (one of the best RPG game designers) was designing a MMO RPG game and Mythic (the best PvP designer) was helping in the PvP part of the game. BioWare, I don't know you if you have already realized, but Mythic has TROLLED you TOTALLY. I don't have any other explanation for this epic fail in the PvP system of SWTOR, sorry.

 

Finally, I wanted to suggest you:

 

Allow Gabe Amatangelo keep on leading the Operations & Flashpoints Design, but remove him from the PvP and put a new person leading it. Any one who have played Daoc or WAR will be a nice designer.

 

Thanks for reading.

Edited January 23, 2012 by erdadi

[Branwell]

This: Warhammer Developer Profiles - Gabe Amatangelo, Designer (10-15-2007)

 

Notably:

 

What is your background? College? 1st job out of school? 1st game industry job? How long have you been with Mythic?

 

I graduated from University of Florida with a degree in Marketing and Screenwriting. My first job was at New Line Cinema in London. There I reviewed screenplays being considered for production and provided 'suggested' edits. Before I knew it I was knee deep in Hollywood shenanigans and wanted for the murder of countless 'darlings.' Two 'Hollywood' jobs later I started up a company where I wrote and produced featurettes that aired on channels like MTV, VH1, G4, etc. One of which was shown at E3, where I was introduced to Mythic Entertainment. Influenced by years of gaming, I was easily charmed with fanciful tales of round tables and Kobolds. The rest is history. Two-plus years of history thus far.

[plexxs]

This: Warhammer Developer Profiles - Gabe Amatangelo, Designer (10-15-2007)

 

Notably:

 

What is your background? College? 1st job out of school? 1st game industry job? How long have you been with Mythic?

 

I graduated from University of Florida with a degree in Marketing and Screenwriting. My first job was at New Line Cinema in London. There I reviewed screenplays being considered for production and provided 'suggested' edits. Before I knew it I was knee deep in Hollywood shenanigans and wanted for the murder of countless 'darlings.' Two 'Hollywood' jobs later I started up a company where I wrote and produced featurettes that aired on channels like MTV, VH1, G4, etc. One of which was shown at E3, where I was introduced to Mythic Entertainment. Influenced by years of gaming, I was easily charmed with fanciful tales of round tables and Kobolds. The rest is history. Two-plus years of history thus far.

 

 

hahaha

[DarthSunshine]

An

[*]There is no reward. I expected to have some kind of Realm Points (nice Daoc times...) to change them for any kind of PvP gear such as medpacks, siege weapons, transport tickets, buffs, mounts, pets, and a large etc. that a good PvP designer could have thought in.

 

Actually there is that...it called Warzone Commendations where you can buy the majority of the things you listed.

[Evuke]

why pvp really sucks in this game:

 

1. failware did nothing about faction balance

 

2. failware made you have to grind pvp for gear

 

3. failware made both factions have completely separate linear paths, so they didn't overlap (little world pvp encounters)

[erdadi]

Actually there is that...it called Warzone Commendations where you can buy the majority of the things you listed.

 

And you get them by playing Warzones, not open PvP (Ilum)

[ImperiumAlpha]

And you get them by playing Warzones, not open PvP (Ilum)

 

lol open pvp silly people...

[BaxAttack]

Swtor pvp is fine. The game just came out and they are making tweeks and adding stuff in the future. Stop being bad.

[MatchpointServe]

Someone please fire this guy.

[Daeromas]

why pvp really sucks in this game:

 

1. failware did nothing about faction balance

 

2. failware made you have to grind pvp for gear

 

3. failware made both factions have completely separate linear paths, so they didn't overlap (little world pvp encounters)

 

1.So force people to play a faction they don't want to is a good thing and will make people continue to play? lulz

 

2.What other system do you suggest to obtain PvP gear? PvE? lulz

 

3.I've had some great world PvP wars already with my guildies.

 

4.You fail.

[erdadi]

Swtor pvp is fine. The game just came out and they are making tweeks and adding stuff in the future. Stop being bad.

 

I don't want a future, in that future there will be games with a PvP MUCH better than the PvP SWTOR will have. I wanted a good PvP now, because I have bought the game now and I play the game now. Ppl always say "the future" when maybe the world ends and we don't have future.

 

And, if you have not played any other MMO, or if this is the first time you play PvP, then you may think SWTOR's PvP is fine. But if you have played any other PvP game then, I'm sorry, but you must understand SWTOR's PvP is horrible, SWTOR's PvP is like a baad joke, its like an insult to usual MMO players.

[golfwang]

Well...now everything makes a lot more sense.

 

PvP in this game will never flourish, it's a holdover till GW2.

[thebd]

Yep, Guild Wars 2 looks more and more promising now... guess we'll see us there!

[golfwang]

I'm surprised more people aren't up in arms over there being no dedicated pvp designer.

Gabe is going to fail the pvp base with a load like that.

[erdadi]

A clear example of the open PvP...

 

Actual PvP (RvR) and Objectives siege:

• http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvzqmWCSy-s

 

A bad joke:

• http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGI9ys-yxKM

 

It is difficult to imagine that both PvP implementations were designed by the Mythic guys eh?

 

Mythic has trolled you BioWare! They failed with WAR and they wanted to make SWTOR to fail too (at least in the PvP). The sad news is they have achieved their objective...

[golfwang]

bump for the truth! viva la resistance!

[Radiozo]

I approve this message.

[Soonerjohn]

Ability delay is the number 1 reason for me why pvp sucks. A major title having this still existing a month after launch is laughable and a clear sign the direction this game is going.

[Crompton]

The reason pvp fails atm is because the Imps have had the advantage with IIum

 

We dont need big speeches and sob stories thats the reason.

[Le-Tinois]

haha more and more I read post about PvP and I simply laught.

 

Guys you are all complaining about something you finally don't really know. For example how many hours did you spend in WZ ? how many hours on Ilum ?

 

Where you come from ? Hard Corean PvP ? 2moons ? Dekaron ? GW ?

 

Cmon, PvP on Ilum is not bad at all... (at least since the corrected patch for 1.1) WZ with premade are really fun and you could apply really nice tactics.

 

 

Basically problems with SWTOR PvP come from STUNS : there is too many stuns !! You can't imagine a real PvP if you can stun and control all the time... Resolve bar is an interesting way to solve the problem but can still be stun for 15s. It's more than enough to kill someone without any effort

Interesting way is adding a 'shield bar' it's like a second health bar only affected in PvP so that in order to kill someone you have to take down his 'shield bar' + 'Health bar'. That way you make PvP a bit longer and more technical. (ofc this can't be applied in WZ)

 

They have dozens of possibility to improve PvP on SWTOR, like Death mark (or bounty) on player from you faction, Wars of domination between guilds, Planets of conquest with influence area opening some special instance or vendor regarding faction control and so on.

 

Maybe we were waiting more PvP content but still it will come and it will be awesome. But you absolutely can't say actual PvP suck are you don't know how to PvP and you should keep on PvE

PvP need to be played as teams not alone you can't just make a judgement based on your solo experience that's just non-sense !

 

 

I will not answer to any criticism on this topic. I wrote all I had to say.

So have fun and keep whining for nothing.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Le-Tinois

[Encolpius]

Saying "PvP on Ilum is not bad at all" is one of the funnier things I've read on the internet lately. Ilum is an ill-conceived and poorly constructed mess of a zone. If you can honestly say that, less than a week after the patch redid the planet, having a total of 6 Republic players on the planet at prime time on the weekend is "working as intended", than I suggest you may have no concept on what makes a game 'balanced' or 'fun'.

[Axethales]

I can't agree more.

 

I joined a PvP server thinking /gasp that PVP actually meant something.

 

You can take warzones and stuff em.

 

I want meaningful WORLD PVP.

 

NOT planned, not scripted. Sort of like reality TV but for gamers who want challenge.

 

Bring back the days of dread lords and player killers from Ultima Online where I kill you AND get your epic gear on top of it.

 

OR at least give me something measurable for killing all the people I have in regular non warzone play.

[XphaedX]

my biggest issue: open world pvp has no risks nor rewards. pvp servers should be encouraged to pvp from low levels, and not only in a structured fake environment like warzones. dying should be penalized. killing should be incentivized.

[erdadi]

haha more and more I read post about PvP and I simply laught.

 

Guys you are all complaining about something you finally don't really know. For example how many hours did you spend in WZ ? how many hours on Ilum ?

 

Where you come from ? Hard Corean PvP ? 2moons ? Dekaron ? GW ?

 

Cmon, PvP on Ilum is not bad at all... (at least since the corrected patch for 1.1) WZ with premade are really fun and you could apply really nice tactics.

 

I come from Dark Age of Camelot, from Warhammer Online (2 games designed and made by Mythic, the company that was supposed to design the PvP of SWTOR...) Saying that PvP on Ilum is not bad at all makes me think you come from Hello Kitty Online...

Edited January 23, 2012 by erdadi

[Sraom]

1.So force people to play a faction they don't want to is a good thing and will make people continue to play? lulz

 

2.What other system do you suggest to obtain PvP gear? PvE? lulz

 

3.I've had some great world PvP wars already with my guildies.

 

4.You fail.

 

1) At least make it more attractive to roll the underdog faction and maybe a little annoying to be a member of the advantageous faction.

 

For example: make Ilum an open world warzone with equal number of people on both sides. If too many people on one side, some have to wait. While there are people waiting, each player can only play in the zone for around 30 minutes before getting switched out.

 

World PvP of a two faction MMO is doomed to fail unless the company tries something new. When I was back in WoW, basically all PvP servers are either Alliance server or Horde server, with very few balanced servers.

 

2) Gear progression and PvP rarely go along well. We want PvE gear progression curve to be steep, so that we could have gear checks, people are more motivated to go to new instances, etc. At the same time, we want PvP gear progression to be flat, because we don't want geared people to roflstomp undergeared people.

 

atm, both wow and swtor use PvP stat to boost PvP gear to be better than PvE gear in PvP. Which means that the PvP gear progression curve is going to be above the PvE progression curve, which is more steep. This system won't work and needs change.

 

Though I agree, the two problems above are not exclusive to SWTOR. WoW had both and many other games have those as well.

 

However, SWTOR's world PvP really did not live up to its potential. With no idiotic factors like flying mount, LFD system and horrible balance that cannot be fixed (such as in WoW, because all balancing have to be around PvE and arena), this game could have great world PvP, but like he said, because opposite factions rarely see each other when questing (or not often enough), and there isn't an area that provide people with incentives to gather together and fight, world PvP isn't as good.