Top 5 swordsmen ever!

[fettpett]

Tulak Hord

Mandalore the Indomitable

Mandalore the Ultimate

 

Cant believe these three arnt on anyone's list.

 

Tulak Hord is questionable as we know nothing about him as a sword fighter.

 

other two were not sword fighters

[Elissan]

Exar Kun

Bane

Tulak Hord

Yoda

Naga Sadow

 

 

Plus:

Marka Ragnos (He mostly wielded a Sith sword, consisting of a metal blade enhanced by Sith sorcery, a weapon of the primitive Sith race)

[Gelich]

If we are talking non Star Wars:

 

Miyamoto Musashi

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miyamoto_Musashi

 

He starts as a bully but with a heart and learns "the way of the sword" and throughout his life he evolves with every new obstacle to a better and more pure form of swordsman, the last duel in the below book with his nemesis is pure Zen!

 

Read the book by Eiji Yoshikawa called "Musashi" about his life, its one of the best reads ever!

 

Johannes Liechtenauer.

 

He traveled across Europe to learn and perfect his art, which he then systematized and written in his book. He's considered one of the founders of the European fencing tradition that was later expanded upon. Not much is known about his life, though. We Europeans lost all the details on the man as well as our fighting traditions. It's a shame. But all of that is being rediscovered right now.

[EdAraujo]

Revan has canonically never been stated to have mastered any forms.

 

 

The Sith Emperor was not a combatant, he was a Sith Scholar and tactician if anything, it states so in SW:TOR Revan, he still defeated Revan one-on-one.

 

 

No he didn't, he was dominating on Mustafar but his ego got in the way of his victory, he killed Cin Drallig, the greatest swordsman in the Jedi Temple and master of all six forms but Juyo/Vaapad, killed five out of eight Jedi in the Jedi Conclave, Killed Darth Tyrannus probably the gretaest Makashi duellist ever, could've killed Luke any time he wished and could take on Galen Marek a far faster and agile opponent than himself and he also defeated Darth Maul, one of the greatest Juyo practitioners and duellists, Vader was arguably the greatest practitioner of Djem-So/Shien ever.

 

When?

 

I can't argue that he has mastered any specific form, but if kotor lore counts as canon, he was considered as a master in lightsaber combat.

 

Well, it doesn't matter much if it was his ego or not what caused his lost. Vader could only defeat Luke and Galen when they where not well experienced. I'm not saying he wasn't pretty strong (he defeated a lot of powerful enemies), just saying he's not good enough for a top 5. He was defeated in some tough battles as Vader (assuming Star Wars: Purge as canon), and although he didn't loose very often, the others on top 5 where more successful. As I said before, Obi-wan would be on a top 5 before Vader imho.

 

Now that you brought that to mind, I'm not sure where/if I read that Windu stated his apprentice to be stronger. For now Windu is more awesome than I thought!

[Rayla_Felana]

I can't argue that he has mastered any specific form, but if kotor lore counts as canon, he was considered as a master in lightsaber combat.

 

Well, it doesn't matter much if it was his ego or not what caused his lost. Vader could only defeat Luke and Galen when they where not well experienced. I'm not saying he wasn't pretty strong (he defeated a lot of powerful enemies), just saying he's not good enough for a top 5. He was defeated in some tough battles as Vader (assuming Star Wars: Purge as canon), and although he didn't loose very often, the others on top 5 where more successful. As I said before, Obi-wan would be on a top 5 before Vader imho.

 

No canonical lore states he mastered any lightsaber form.

 

He was still superior in lightsaber ability than Obi-Wan Kenobi, that is my entire point, He took on Shaak Ti, Count Dooku, Obi-Wan, Darth Maul and Cin Drallig, He is 5. on my list, because demonstratively and by all the canon we have on him, in my opninion, he was the fifth best duellist behind:

 

1.Grand Master Skywalker.

2.Weapon Master Mace Windu.

3.Darth Sidious

4.Grand Master Yoda.

 

Don't take the films as a primary source for how powerful he was because the interpretations vary widely.

[LordViru]

1. Yoda- Master of all forms of combat, trained Windu and was one of two people to beat him in sparring, and was able to beat Dooku in a saber battle.

2. Mace Windu (Invented Vaapad, and Palpatine was unable to beat him in a saber duel despite offing 4 other masters in a matter of seconds, and was recognised as the greatest swordsman the order had at the time of the clone wars).

3. Anakin Skywalker (pre-Vader where he was forced to adopt a mixed style to cope with his suit)- At the start of ROTS he is able to take down Dooku using Jar'kai, who was regarded as a brilliant swordsman, despite his lack of experience with it, and was able to take down most of the Jedi Order remaining in the temple, including Cin Drallig. Were it not for his anger and hubris he likely could've beaten Obi Wan on mustafar.

4. Tulak Hord- Not much known but from Sith legend he was regarded as the greatest Sith Duellist of all time, and was only killed in his sleep not in battle.

5. Dooku- Yoda's greatest pupil, was able to take down both Anakin and Obi-Wan at the end of AOTC singlehandedly, the other person to beat Windu at sparring, unmatched mastery of Makashi form.

[Haajib]

I think Shaak Ti gets a honorble mention

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Shak_Ti

 

Because during the battle for Coruscant, when the separatists launched the invasion in order to capture the supreme chancellor, she successfully protected Palpatine against Grevius, and droids, while protecting the Chancellor.

 

She also stood her ground against approximately 30 Elite Magna Guards while she gave the Palpatine time to escape into his hidden bunker deep under the planets surface. even without a lightsaber she quickly adapted into using the Magna Guards weapon against them, hence defeated most of them.

 

See this link for source the fight is approximately 50 seconds long

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSbCPHxyDFk#t=04m21s

Edited January 24, 2012 by Haajib

[DarylMusashi]

Palpatine. Easily handles Wendu and 3 other Jedis, killing the three in mere moments. I am of the camp that he allowed Wendu to gain an apparent advantage because he knew he could get Anakin to turn. He whipped Yoda as well right after.

[Rayla_Felana]

Palpatine. Easily handles Wendu and 3 other Jedis, killing the three in mere moments. I am of the camp that he allowed Wendu to gain an apparent advantage because he knew he could get Anakin to turn. He whipped Yoda as well right after.

 

Confirmed in the RotS commentary by Lucas that Windu beat Palpatine's *** in the duel.

[Sobai]

Kas'im.

 

Darth Bane had to resort to Force Powers to beat him. Sure, using Djem-So he was able to overpower Kas'im using his 2H. So he switched to 2 single handed blades and bane couldn't match him.

 

Bear in mind also that Bane and Zannah were able to defeat 3 Jedi masters and 2 knights in combat with the Jedi being empowered by Battle Meditation.

 

To be fair, Anakin/Darth has to be up there. Beat Dooku and he was considered one of the finest duelists of the period. Same goes with Obi-Wan. Fine, Soresu may be defensive but it worked for him.

 

I noticed someone mention Vader was the finest Djem-So - arguable. Bane would give him a good run I reckon.

 

1-Shii-Cho - swtor - Most Jedi

2-Makashi - not in - Movies - Dooku

3-Soresu - swtor, Movies - Obi-Wan

4-Ataru - swtor, Movies - Qui-Gon, Yoda, Initially Obi-wan and Anakin too

5-Shien/ Djem So - swtor, movies - Anakin

6-Niman - not in - Not sure if this really features one on one in the movies

7-Juyo/Vaapad - swtor, movies - Mace Windu.

 

Does anyone know what form Palpatine uses? I would assume Shien or Djem so by aggressiveness, lacks acrobats to be Ataru and Niman was pretty much a jack of all trades affair

Edited January 24, 2012 by Sobai

[EdAraujo]

No canonical lore states he mastered any lightsaber form.

 

He was still superior in lightsaber ability than Obi-Wan Kenobi, that is my entire point, He took on Shaak Ti, Count Dooku, Obi-Wan, Darth Maul and Cin Drallig, He is 5. on my list, because demonstratively and by all the canon we have on him, in my opninion, he was the fifth best duellist behind:

 

1.Grand Master Skywalker.

2.Weapon Master Mace Windu.

3.Darth Sidious

4.Grand Master Yoda.

 

Don't take the films as a primary source for how powerful he was because the interpretations vary widely.

 

Where can I find indications that Vader had superior lightsaber ability over Obi-Wan? You keep saying he took on Obi-Wan, but I can't find any indications of that. For me, they fought twice, one Vader lost, the other wasn't fought to the end. Even his victory over Darth Maul's 'clone' is dubious, taking in consideration that he 'killed' himself in order to defeat Darth Maul. Something Obi-Wan didn't had to do to defeat the 'same' enemy.

[Rayla_Felana]

I noticed someone mention Vader was the finest Djem-So - arguable. Bane would give him a good run I reckon.

 

Does anyone know what form Palpatine uses? I would assume Shien or Djem so by aggressiveness, lacks acrobats to be Ataru and Niman was pretty much a jack of all trades affair

 

Bane might, but Vader was still demonstratively better than him at Djem-So, his sheer size and rage gave him said advantage.

 

He used all seven ambidextrously.

[MGriffith]

I don't know about Star Wars, but the greatest swordsman in the world was:

The Man in Black

 

Followed closely by:

Inigo Montoya

[ilchitobandito]

I wanted to point something out...

 

In my opinion Mace Windu is pretty awesome, he made his own form of lightsaber combat which was the mos aggressive one due to it's closeness to the dark side.

 

BUT only 2 people ever defeated him in fair combat: Yoda and Darth Tyranus (a.k.a. Count Dooku).

So if its based on lightsaber skill then I'd sat Yoda was the best, then dooku then windu...

Out of loving the character of Obi Wan i would place him fourth though others woud probably wipe him clean...

 

Im pretty sure other peeps in the council were quite nifty with a blade though...

[Rhyltran]

I wanted to point something out...

 

In my opinion Mace Windu is pretty awesome, he made his own form of lightsaber combat which was the mos aggressive one due to it's closeness to the dark side.

 

BUT only 2 people ever defeated him in fair combat: Yoda and Darth Tyranus (a.k.a. Count Dooku).

So if its based on lightsaber skill then I'd sat Yoda was the best, then dooku then windu...

Out of loving the character of Obi Wan i would place him fourth though others woud probably wipe him clean...

 

Im pretty sure other peeps in the council were quite nifty with a blade though...

 

Well, in all fairness as I mentioned in numerous other posts he's always held back with Vaapad. It's an aggressive style and he's the only practitioner that hasn't fallen to the dark side while using it. He's always been cautious about it's use and has ensured to never allow himself to give himself entirely to it. This went out the window when fighting sidious and he gave his all to his form during that fight. In that moment he was unrestrained and at his best.

[LexicTank]

Best Lightsaber Duelist in SW: Tulak Hord

[Rayla_Felana]

Where can I find indications that Vader had superior lightsaber ability over Obi-Wan? You keep saying he took on Obi-Wan, but I can't find any indications of that. For me, they fought twice, one Vader lost, the other wasn't fought to the end. Even his victory over Darth Maul's 'clone' is dubious, taking in consideration that he 'killed' himself in order to defeat Darth Maul. Something Obi-Wan didn't had to do to defeat the 'same' enemy.

 

It is rather obvious when one thinks the duel through, Obi-wan and Anakin know each other's styles through and through, but Obi-Wan was not prepared for just how aggressive Vader's application of Djem-So was in comparison to Anakin's, Vader knows his former master's moves well, the same cannot be said the other way around, Vader has this advantage.

 

Nick Gillard (Stunt co-ordinator and Choreographer) states that in Lucas' screenplay and his own choreography, that Vader is more powerful here and is just about dominating the battle, but only because of his uncontrolled use of the Dark Side, at the end of the duel he pays for this with over-confidence and a lack of control, he hadn't honed and mastered his new power properly, this gave Obi-Wan precisely the edge his form requires, hence Obi-Wan beat Vader.

[stinkydoggy]

OK to start on this Luke shouldn't be on the list he was an amateur and could barely defend himself, but sure he seemed ****** in a time with no other force users. second yoda was a master of all 7 forms and known as a great swordsman . Third Anakin was possibly the weakest sith ever to exist he could only force choke people, his saber throw missed everytime, he lacked lightning completely he was slow, dumb, and on life support why is he on the list? what about exar kun, naga sadow, darth maul, count douku who they mentioned was a good swordsmen where are these kind of names?

 

You might want to rethink Luke and not base what you've seen in the movies. Later on in the books, Luke becomes quite the ******. I'd have chosen a few different names myself but I'm not going to bash him for his list. Make your own list and provide the reasons why you think it. That way someone can pick it apart like you did.

 

Expand your mind before opening your mouth.

[Chanez]

sephiroth, from final fantasy 7, his blade cuts through lightsabers, and his ancient ones power allows him to be in star wars

[GregMD]

I'm not that into star wars lore aside from the films but why is everyone acting like luke is so great? In the movies he didn't seem to be great at much of anything aside from piloting, he barely used the force and he sucked **** with a lightsaber

[Neovag]

Just spitballing here....

 

Malgus?

Had little difficulty against Ven Zallow (supposedly one of the greatest jedi of the time) and hacked through Satele's saber with equal lack of effort.

 

Grievous?

The most imposing lightsaber wielder from the films, if not the deadliest.

 

Also, why do people keep saying Obi-Wan? He even admits his inferiority to Anakin.

 

Tulak Hord?

If what Khem's always bragging about is true, the guy was pretty much a one man army.

Edited February 21, 2012 by Neovag

[Shadinaxx]

I think Atsoka Tano gets an honerable mention, when she has her bout with going dark side for a time, she takes on anakin and Obi wan at the same time (granted anakin and obi wan arent trying to kill her, but they are still pushed to their limits)

 

Also, I like her style of the reversed offhand, something I wish I could do for my marauder, lol

[Clonedzero]

i find it absolutely stupid that yoda is considered one of the all time best lightsaber fighters.

 

his character is supposed be PURELY about the mental. not a physical fighter. it goes against everything his character was designed for. i mean his physical disadvantage of being so tiny and having NO reach makes him even being on the list laughable. for him to keep up with a normal human sized opponent he has to constantly bounce around like a bunny on crack leading to physical exhaustion.

 

while it might be "canon" i will never accept it because the concept is completely stupid and against the original point of his character which was to demonstrate that the force was beyond the physical, making him a great physical fighter as well ruins it.

 

so with my grand powers, i veto yoda off any official list.

 

EDIT - also, why is sidious / palpatine mentioned in this? again, it seems ridiculous. don't show me revenge of the sith as evidence, i'll use return of the jedi instead. where he scoffs at lukes lightsaber and disrespectfully refers to it as "his jedi weapon" and never had his own.

 

i guess if you have screen time in the movies you become one of the all time best lightsaber duelists ever cus some hack writer will add in some fluff about them mastering all the forms that goes against their established character and personality....?

 

i really hope im not the only one who facepalmed hard enough to leave a bruise when yoda pulled out his lightsaber in episode 2.

Edited February 21, 2012 by Clonedzero

[Sylvatica]

If we are talking non Star Wars:

 

Miyamoto Musashi

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miyamoto_Musashi

 

He starts as a bully but with a heart and learns "the way of the sword" and throughout his life he evolves with every new obstacle to a better and more pure form of swordsman, the last duel in the below book with his nemesis is pure Zen!

 

Read the book by Eiji Yoshikawa called "Musashi" about his life, its one of the best reads ever!

 

I always choose my char and think about the samurai! =) Book of 5 rings I think it is

[AstralProjection]

i find it absolutely stupid that yoda is considered one of the all time best lightsaber fighters.

 

his character is supposed be PURELY about the mental. not a physical fighter. it goes against everything his character was designed for. i mean his physical disadvantage of being so tiny and having NO reach makes him even being on the list laughable. for him to keep up with a normal human sized opponent he has to constantly bounce around like a bunny on crack leading to physical exhaustion.

 

while it might be "canon" i will never accept it because the concept is completely stupid and against the original point of his character which was to demonstrate that the force was beyond the physical, making him a great physical fighter as well ruins it.

 

so with my grand powers, i veto yoda off any official list.

 

EDIT - also, why is sidious / palpatine mentioned in this? again, it seems ridiculous. don't show me revenge of the sith as evidence, i'll use return of the jedi instead. where he scoffs at lukes lightsaber and disrespectfully refers to it as "his jedi weapon" and never had his own.

 

i guess if you have screen time in the movies you become one of the all time best lightsaber duelists ever cus some hack writer will add in some fluff about them mastering all the forms that goes against their established character and personality....?

 

i really hope im not the only one who facepalmed hard enough to leave a bruise when yoda pulled out his lightsaber in episode 2.

 

I would dispute your claim about Yoda being purely mental. While the point of his character is to perhaps to display that power doesn't come from physical size and strength, that has nothing to do with combat ability or physicality itself.

 

Yoda was modeled after internal martial artists, who are all very much living proof that your size and strength have nothing to do with the amount of power invested in a strike. He was to show that true power and strength came from within, not that a mental nature would always overcome the physical. The point of a Yoda-style warrior is that the Mental and Physical must remain in harmony with the Spiritual to achieve the most potent strike possible.

 

It's important to note what time period this is for, it's really hard to compare Clone Wars Jedi with Pre-Clone Wars Jedi, since one came from a much more warlike time than the other.

 

It's probably safe to assume there are many lightsaber specialists better than the ones we know from the movies in the setting we play TOR in now.

 

In the Lore, Yoda was considered the true master of Lightsaber combat in the Jedi Order for his time period. If you go by just the movies, it's debatable, but in the expanded universe Yoda was the greatest swordsman of his time, even according to Mace Windu, who was, himself, touted as the greatest swordsman by many.

 

Only two people ever beat Mace Windu in lightsaber combat, Count Dooku, and Yoda. They would probably be at the top of the list.

 

After those three though, it's hard to say. Most Jedi were painted as cannon fodder in those times. Kit Fisto was supposed to be extremely skilled in Shii-Cho, and big papa Palpatine dropped him like a bad habit in a second. We won't even mention the guy that jumps up on the balcony and gets shot by Jango, that guy was failure incarnate.

Edited February 21, 2012 by AstralProjection