Op/scoundrel nerf not happening. (the way they purposed it to)

[Beergogglez]

As i read the purposed nerf to ops/scoundrels i couldn't help to facepalm and think of how made up those numbers seemed. For example 1.5 sec stun from stealth and full resolve bar? a 1.5 sec stun isn't worth it. Classes have an out of stealth stun that completely ignores resolve(sorc electrocute) <-- i'd say that's gamebreaking sirs ..oh and it lasts for 5 secs. with a 1 min cd.

 

I know that ops/scoundrels are the least played class atm. I know they get alot of hate for being accused of "terrible healers. terrible dps" in pve and pvp (healing). they used to do alot of damage..now they don't why? because they're facing lvl 50's with expertise. I asked someone where they got these 8k -10 crit #'s from. He/she (most likely he) pointed me to this vid where this Operative named Chris was buff stacking(doesn't exist anymore). He would pop a relic/adrenal/stim/pvp buff and use hidden strike on lvl 10's. I laughed ..and said this is your proof? Any lvl 50 with expertise and buff stacking can do this(not at once), but major damage to a lowbie.

 

Now as i think about how fast this purposed nerf came. I have come to the conclusion that BW(mythic) does not play the same game we do. They highly favor keeping the "majority" happy. That majority are lightsaber classes exp the sorcs/sages and warrior class. Yep trop/bh and operative/scoundrel get the short end of the stick. Some of you might say "wait BH and Tropper Missle spam" well anyone who playes those classes now can tell you that they nerfed heat. No more missle spam for them. Where are the fixes to Warriors doing 6k aoe hits on fully expertised lvl 50's ? That one aoe ability is completely broken. Electrocute is broken and doesn't effect resolve. My point is a huge player base plays the lightsaber and a minority playes blasters.

 

Soundrels/ops BH/troopers are not well represented on the servers. We can't report reason when we're outnumbered by broken lightsaber classes who keep whining over us.

 

That one guy called himself the "observer" well have you observed that not all of us play jedi? That maybe the class that 70% (hey i can throw imaginary #'s around too) of your gaming population is broken too? Please look into the abilities that ignore relsolve bar and look into warrior aoe ****. thanks

[Lasica]

No, operatives need to be nerfed. Any class that can take down another player from 100% to 0% without them being able to respond is overpowered.

[Beergogglez]

No, operatives need to be nerfed. Any class that can take down another player from 100% to 0% without them being able to respond is overpowered.

 

i couldn't have made it shorter ..possibly read that part with the youtube video i watched ..where 100%-0% only happens to lvl 10's with buff stacking. all those problems are gone now ...thanks

[JLStewart]

i couldn't have made it shorter ..possibly read that part with the youtube video i watched ..where 100%-0% only happens to lvl 10's with buff stacking. all those problems are gone now ...thanks

 

Don't bother dude, idiots only see what they want to see.

[Mrs_Murder]

i couldn't have made it shorter ..possibly read that part with the youtube video i watched ..where 100%-0% only happens to lvl 10's with buff stacking. all those problems are gone now ...thanks

 

Yeah, these days we get to toss 2 instant abilities in before we're dead. ALL FIXED. WORKING AS INTENDED. Derp.

[Jivefenix]

lol is this "Chris" on saber of exar kun. Love that guy but he defiantly can not take me down in the stun anymore since the buff stacking went away

[Beeteel]

Yeah, these days we get to toss 2 instant abilities in before we're dead. ALL FIXED. WORKING AS INTENDED. Derp.

 

And in those 2 instant abilities u decide to use dmg attacks.

 

HINT: dont use dmg abilities when u what to get control back!!!

Edited January 22, 2012 by Beeteel

[Lagmonster]

No, operatives need to be nerfed. Any class that can take down another player from 100% to 0% without them being able to respond is overpowered.

 

Your so full of crap its not even funny

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRtEeMg2YJ4&feature=youtu.be

 

Watch that video. that is a completely naked jugg, and the op has 403 expertise.

 

Buff stacking is GONE like how it use to be. Ops can no longer come close to the burst damage they once had....so stop living in the past.

 

Sick of people like you causing my class to get nerfed, making it worthless for Pve due to stupid forum qq. Which is whats happening

[pelijr]

I appreciate seeing that people are using that quick video I made to prove the point I've been TRYING to make to people since 1.1

 

Don't whine about operatives doing 7k+ crits, They don't, not anymore.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRtEeMg2YJ4&feature=youtu.be

 

Further info on the video: I'm in -almost- a full pvp set, everything but the Gun, Chest, and Boots. 403 Expertise AND in order to get that 5.2 crit on a NAKED jugg, I had to pop my Relic, something that I actually -rarely- do in Warzones to be honest.

 

Bioware -will- break operative with these nerfs. Can't wait till the nerf Sorc/BH/Maurauder/Sniper damage to round it out with Operatives, then who will be the one's having to defend themselves by battling naked people. What goes around comes around, and now everyone knows - "The Most QQ wins"

 

Have fun with your incoming nerf BH and Sorc, that is, if Bioware actually BALANCES their game instead of balancing it based on their class populations.

[JonathanCP]

In-game metrics to which we don't have access.

/thread

[pelijr]

In-game metrics to which we don't have access.

/thread

 

in-game metrics? INGAME METRICS? Are you *********** kidding me? 1.1 has been out for LESS than a full week. How the hell can you gather ANY sort of substantial data on Operative POST 50 Brackets and POST Buff-fix if you aren't even going to give it the time to be analyzed. Operative DPS is FINE, Operative 3s stun opener can be dropped, but give me a gap-closer instead. Problem solved, and perfectly balanced. I can faceplant you for 3s and drop 8k damage TOTAL (not one ability as proven here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRtEeMg2YJ4&feature=youtu.be ) which leaves you at half health before you stand up. Take away the stun, and I can -still- do that kind of damage, but only if you leave me open on your back, and leave me unattended.

[JonathanCP]

in-game metrics? INGAME METRICS? Are you *********** kidding me? 1.1 has been out for LESS than a full week. How the hell can you gather ANY sort of substantial data on Operative POST 50 Brackets and POST Buff-fix if you aren't even going to give it the time to be analyzed. Operative DPS is FINE, Operative 3s stun opener can be dropped, but give me a gap-closer instead. Problem solved, and perfectly balanced. I can faceplant you for 3s and drop 8k damage TOTAL (not one ability as proven here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRtEeMg2YJ4&feature=youtu.be ) which leaves you at half health before you stand up. Take away the stun, and I can -still- do that kind of damage, but only if you leave me open on your back, and leave me unattended.

 

Sir, did you at least TEST the changes on the test server before putting together your personal opinion of those changes?

 

And sorry, but (in-game metrics for one week) X (1-2 millions of players) X (hundreds of thousands of PvP matches) = more data than we can ever imagine.

[Lagmonster]

Sir, did you at least TEST the changes on the test server before putting together your personal opinion of those changes?

 

And sorry, but (in-game metrics for one week) X (1-2 millions of players) X (hundreds of thousands of PvP matches) = more data than we can ever imagine.

 

I don't need to TEST anything to know basic math based on current theory crafting. These changes will GUT Op dps for pve.

 

His video proves just how false peoples claims are for post 1.1 pvp combat.

 

And also we have no real WAY to test on the ptr without leveling up a brand new character. Not that its even needed, we can take values based on in game 1.1 and 1.1.1 patch notes and make mathematical calculations on where that puts damage. But again I know this is some pretty hard stuff to figure out after all

 

How about getting a little common sense in that cement block you call a head. Maybe take off your "Ops are OP" blinders as well.

 

This kind of balancing destroys games, which nobody should want

Edited January 22, 2012 by Lagmonster

[pgumby]

No, operatives need to be nerfed. Any class that can take down another player from 100% to 0% without them being able to respond is overpowered.

 

Hate to break it to you, that kind of activity is very situation, and not the norm, try harder.

[Thankyjack]

No, operatives need to be nerfed. Any class that can take down another player from 100% to 0% without them being able to respond is overpowered.

 

Wrong. If this happens to your level 50 geared class, then (1) it should happen; and (2) the nerf won't save you.

[JonathanCP]

Frankly, I have no opinion whatsoever on Operative's DPS. Nerfs are part of every MMO, the bat will hit every class over the years, Operatives are just the first on the list.

 

My point was just the following. What you see as "Bioware made those changes becauz of a bunch of whinners, and if I complain louder they will listen to me instead" is actually "Bioware made those changes based on many, many sources of information, most of which you don't have access to, and those changes are not live yet, are still subject to change, are being tested RIGHT NOW, and we'll see how it goes on the test servers (given their obvious limitations - most notably the absence of high level characters)"

 

And BTW, I'm very happy to see that the discussions on the forums went from "the game is broken and dead omg I'm cancelling here's why" to discussions about actual gameplay.

 

We could at least try to keep this discussion civil. Don't forget the most important pillar of an MMO ..... nope, not story..... community

 

Peace

 

EDIT : yes, my first post, and the usage of the -oh too common- /thread, was not the most civilized way to explain myself. Sorry about that.

Edited January 22, 2012 by JonathanCP

[Thankyjack]

And in those 2 instant abilities u decide to use dmg attacks.

 

HINT: dont use dmg abilities when u what to get control back!!!

 

Full

 

Resolve

 

Bar

 

See why the nerf doesn't work?

 

Here's the deal, no matter how you slice it,

 

OP is a PvP class, reliant on control and burst to be competitive. No gap closer, no mobility, no real ranged damage. It's surprise you're dead or surprise I'm dead. Out of stealth, ops are dead.

 

If a geared op catches you alone, without CDs, then you should die immediately, within the length of the stun. If you don't die, then you cannot be stunned or snared again before you can destroy the op.

 

Now, post nerf, an op cannot kill you. A well played 50 op cannot kill another 50, unless the other player is extremely low on health or an idiot.

 

So, how does this work? We jump out of stealth and knock you down for 1.5 secs, we stab you, you get up with 80% health and crush us or we restealth and run. How does this represent what OPs are supposed to be?

 

The nerf is reactionary and idiotic because there was no quid pro quo in sustained damage. They should have made it half resolve bar or significantly buffed ranged damage potential.

[pelijr]

Frankly, I have no opinion whatsoever on Operative's DPS. Nerfs are part of every MMO, the bat will hit every class over the years, Operatives are just the first on the list.

 

My point was just the following. What you see as "Bioware made those changes becauz of a bunch of whinners, and if I complain louder they will listen to me instead" is actually "Bioware made those changes based on many, many sources of information, most of which you don't have access to, and those changes are not live yet, are still subject to change, are being tested RIGHT NOW, and we'll see how it goes on the test servers (given their obvious limitations - most notably the absence of high level characters)"

 

And BTW, I'm very happy to see that the discussions on the forums went from "the game is broken and dead omg I'm cancelling here's why" to discussions about actual gameplay.

 

We could at least try to keep this discussion civil. Don't forget the most important pillar of an MMO ..... nope, not story..... community

 

Peace

 

So tell me All-knowing one, since I don't have access to this mysterious information that Bioware has, how exactly do you know that they have "many many sources of information". Do you have ANYTHING to back up your claim that Bioware made these changes based on balance? Cause I've posted time and time again, a video PROVING to you that these changes are NOT based on Balance.

 

How do people not understand that Adrenal + Relic + EXP Buff = Insane DMG numbers that every Operative seems to include in their PVP videos. This is NOT realistic of Operative PVP gameplay, and it's -not- realistic in terms of -any- sort of balance.

 

Again, watch the video, I pop -everything- you possibly can excluding EXP buff and Adrenal (**** biochem) and I'm critting a NAKED PERSON for 5.2k. And again, this was my LARGEST crit, a majority were in the 2.5-3.0k and -many- fell more in the 1.5-1.75k range. Again, play a 50 geared operative, test out the numbers on someone and see.

 

The problem is NOT Operative DPS it's not it's not it's not.... The problem IS Buff-stacking and the 3s knockdown. Kill the 3s knockdown, give me maybe a 10m gap-closer so I can stay in melee range like other Melee DPS classes.

[Lagmonster]

Frankly, I have no opinion whatsoever on Operative's DPS. Nerfs are part of every MMO, the bat will hit every class over the years, Operatives are just the first on the list.

 

My point was just the following. What you see as "Bioware made those changes becauz of a bunch of whinners, and if I complain louder they will listen to me instead" is actually "Bioware made those changes based on many, many sources of information, most of which you don't have access to, and those changes are not live yet, are still subject to change, are being tested RIGHT NOW, and we'll see how it goes on the test servers (given their obvious limitations - most notably the absence of high level characters)"

 

And BTW, I'm very happy to see that the discussions on the forums went from "the game is broken and dead omg I'm cancelling here's why" to discussions about actual gameplay.

 

We could at least try to keep this discussion civil. Don't forget the most important pillar of an MMO ..... nope, not story..... community

 

Peace

 

Just like those many forms of information they had for the illum change and many hours of relentless testing?

 

I'm not going to sit around when I have the math in front of me proving how bioware is wrong. They even admitted themselves in the patch notes the nerf is for controlling burst for pvp. They don't give a crap how this effects Pve Op's in the slightest. And its going to destroy Op dps for Pve for any sort of competitive nightmare operation dps spots.

 

That kind of short sighted thinking will destroy parts of the community when they up and leave. I'm most likely going to be one of those people as well.

 

I've been more then trying to keep it "civil", but the amount of trolls coming out of the woodwork is becoming pretty damn infuriating when trying to talk seriously about this issue.

 

This game has far far to many flaws to keep me playing after gutting the class I've been working my *** off on for nightmare operations. Completely unacceptable

[Arkia]

So tell me All-knowing one, since I don't have access to this mysterious information that Bioware has, how exactly do you know that they have "many many sources of information". Do you have ANYTHING to back up your claim that Bioware made these changes based on balance? Cause I've posted time and time again, a video PROVING to you that these changes are NOT based on Balance.

 

How do people not understand that Adrenal + Relic + EXP Buff = Insane DMG numbers that every Operative seems to include in their PVP videos. This is NOT realistic of Operative PVP gameplay, and it's -not- realistic in terms of -any- sort of balance.

 

Again, watch the video, I pop -everything- you possibly can excluding EXP buff and Adrenal (**** biochem) and I'm critting a NAKED PERSON for 5.2k. And again, this was my LARGEST crit, a majority were in the 2.5-3.0k and -many- fell more in the 1.5-1.75k range. Again, play a 50 geared operative, test out the numbers on someone and see.

 

The problem is NOT Operative DPS it's not it's not it's not.... The problem IS Buff-stacking and the 3s knockdown. Kill the 3s knockdown, give me maybe a 10m gap-closer so I can stay in melee range like other Melee DPS classes.

 

Amen.

 

People who don't play this class come in here and just have one goal in mind if they are monitoring these thread and that's to QQ til BW eliminates anyone who gives them issues in PVP. The same people will show you a video of someone pre 1.1 doing 8k + damage and 100 to 0% in 3s but will not bother to watch video's like your's which shows the true picture. In Meeq's video he used every cooldown he had in perfect circumstances to kill someone. All classes can do massive damage and it's because of these adrenals/relic buffs. Those are what needs to be changed immediately.

 

 

They fixed the issues in 1.1 - let the classes play the game and in a month no one will even care.

[pelijr]

Just like those many forms of information they had for the illum change and many hours of relentless testing?

 

I'm not going to sit around when I have the math in front of me proving how bioware is wrong. They even admitted themselves in the patch notes the nerf is for controlling burst for pvp. They don't give a crap how this effects Pve Op's in the slightest. And its going to destroy Op dps for Pve for any sort of competitive nightmare operation dps spots.

 

That kind of short sighted thinking will destroy parts of the community when they up and leave. I'm most likely going to be one of those people as well.

 

I've been more then trying to keep it "civil", but the amount of trolls coming out of the woodwork is becoming pretty damn infuriating when trying to talk seriously about this issue.

 

This game has far far to many flaws to keep me playing after gutting the class I've been working my *** off on for nightmare operations. Completely unacceptable

 

+1 , The design of the boss fights in 95% of the encounters favors bringing Ranged DPS anyways. I've already been resigned to playing on the "B-team" when it comes to raiding with my guild as they already have two IA's in the "A-team" group (Operative Healz and Sniper) and adding a third would only cause more rolls for more IA gear, plus why would you wanna risk a melee DPS that can be killed by "Smash/Jump/Pound" mechanics on a boss when you can have a ranged DPS sitting back and owning with that sustained high-dmg DPS.

[Sathid]

I appreciate seeing that people are using that quick video I made to prove the point I've been TRYING to make to people since 1.1

 

Don't whine about operatives doing 7k+ crits, They don't, not anymore.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRtEeMg2YJ4&feature=youtu.be

 

Further info on the video: I'm in -almost- a full pvp set, everything but the Gun, Chest, and Boots. 403 Expertise AND in order to get that 5.2 crit on a NAKED jugg, I had to pop my Relic, something that I actually -rarely- do in Warzones to be honest.

 

Bioware -will- break operative with these nerfs. Can't wait till the nerf Sorc/BH/Maurauder/Sniper damage to round it out with Operatives, then who will be the one's having to defend themselves by battling naked people. What goes around comes around, and now everyone knows - "The Most QQ wins"

 

Have fun with your incoming nerf BH and Sorc, that is, if Bioware actually BALANCES their game instead of balancing it based on their class populations.

 

These so called Metrics that they stated sounds like a cop out,i believe some of our intial burst may of needed a small tune down or the stun but they did a three way whammy,it just doesnt make sense to me and I myself have a full Champ set aside from the head piece and i believe ive done four or five crits above 5k in well over 20 WZ's.

 

A few classes with zero PvP gear i can take down pretty fast still after my opener,but equally geared players,no way,plus i really gotaa look at who im going after and who is around them,but if my team is lacking im forced to go all out and meet death to try and give us that edge alot being a Scoundrel and our teams most often are outgeared.

Edited January 22, 2012 by Sathid

[NegativeX]

If these nerfs go in, my sub will be canceled.

 

Not because they broke my class, but because I will have no faith they can maintain this game on any reasonable and logical level.

 

The Secret World is right around the corner anyways...

[JadeBranch]

I'm a Scoundrel myself and I'm disappointed by the upcoming changes. I came from WoW so I'm used to nerfs. But one of the things that Blizzard found that really works is to not give huge nerfs/buffs out in a single patch, lest a class becomes over or under powered.

 

That's a pretty big nerf. You can talk about metrics all you want but it won't matter a dime until players actually get to see it themselves out in real pvp. If BW could establish perfect 'metrics' then they would have no need for class adjustments.

[Beergogglez]

If these nerfs go in, my sub will be canceled.

 

Not because they broke my class, but because I will have no faith they can maintain this game on any reasonable and logical level.

 

The Secret World is right around the corner anyways...

 

I follow Secret World. Now that's a genre breaking game. Really modern n **** ..3 factions was a good idea. Really great graphics for today's computers. Worried about gameplay, never played it, but it's got all the elements of a great mmo. GW2 will not hold interest long enough. no real pve/raid endgame. but the pvper in me loves it heh