Hunter_Este Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 See, When your working with the EU, the EU rules take the lead. But just to humor myself I'll ask you where in the 6 films does it say that Jedi cannot marry, ever. Just because a particular council disallows something doesn't mean the rules are set in stone. If your old boss gave you a 45 minute lunch break, and your new boss only gives you a 20 minute break, does that mean the 45 minute break never existed at all? You're dealing with a purist here, they wont believe anything that wasn't in episodes 4-6 no matter what anyone (even George) says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanSnowWolf Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 If you want to get technical.. there were prequel advertisements from Lucasfilm that said a jedi should not know love. Also, redeeming a parent that has sinned is not the same thing as dating your padawan. The problem with using EU as sacred text is that it gets rewritten all the time. Personally ... I don't expect an unbiased understanding from KOTOR fanboys with Jolee Bindo quotes in their sigs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerJBD Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 If you want to get technical.. there were prequel advertisements from Lucasfilm that said a jedi should not know love. Also, redeeming a parent that has sinned is not the same thing as dating your padawan. The problem with using EU as sacred text is that it gets rewritten all the time. Personally ... I don't expect an unbiased understanding from KOTOR fanboys with Jolee Bindo quotes in their sigs. Well the whole "Jedi should have no such attachments" stuff came from the prequels, and the Jedi Council of that era totally screwed the pooch and let one old coot with political ambition take over the galaxy, so forgive me if I think some of their concepts might be a bit flawed, especially since the prequels showed that loving attachments (remember the first step Anakin took toward the dark side was because of his love for his mother) could be redemptive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pencilstubs Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 If you want to get technical.. there were prequel advertisements from Lucasfilm that said a jedi should not know love. Also, redeeming a parent that has sinned is not the same thing as dating your padawan. The problem with using EU as sacred text is that it gets rewritten all the time. Personally ... I don't expect an unbiased understanding from KOTOR fanboys with Jolee Bindo quotes in their sigs. Much anger, I sense in this one. Before you go on trying to teach others, perhaps you should review the basics of the Code itself. This argument comes down to levels of canon. Some choose only to follow Lucas canon, others allow more flexibility. We can argue the various merits of both all day. The fact of the matter is, we're playing a game in the EU and the stories will evolve as such. Anything more is opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kooxy Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 While I do agree with what has been said about love being the true meaning of force, there is one argument everyone seems to forget: swtor takes place way before the events of the 6 movies. Now as it was previously stated the council were completely against the concept of marriage in episode 1 and 2. So presumably, there is no way that the council that was in store 20,000 years before would accept it . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saseav Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I do not really care much about lore and all that. But wouldn't it make sense for Jedi to get married to other Jedi that are strong in the force...to you know pass that crap on genetically? The sith do and so it seems like the Jedi are putting themselves at a disadvantage by not doing this. Maybe I just don't know how the whole force thing works. Anyway... jedi prior to this era have been doing it. they needed to refill their numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eelam Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 If you want to get technical.. there were prequel advertisements from Lucasfilm that said a jedi should not know love. Also, redeeming a parent that has sinned is not the same thing as dating your padawan. The problem with using EU as sacred text is that it gets rewritten all the time. This. I think people are confusing my point slightly. I fully get that platonic love saved the day, and the force is about understanding and tolerance. But, love as in relationship love is the forbidden kind for a Jedi. They are two very separate things. It's why we don't date our mothers. Scramble, it's referenced countless times in the films that a Jedi should not love (as in relationship style). If it wasn't such a big deal Anakin and Padme really wouldn't be going to such lengths to hide it from the council. They know the ramifications of openly being in a relationship. Also saying that the original lore should not apply to the extended universe (something which appeared AFTER the original lore), is simply silly. Why don't we just plonk the Enterprise D in the middle of space? It's all cool because it's the EU! Come on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pencilstubs Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I'm not sure I understand the opposition here. Are the purists upset that Jedi are allowed to marry in the first place, or do they feel the option should be left in the game but with more discouragement from the Council? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saseav Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I'm not sure I understand the opposition here. Are the purists upset that Jedi are allowed to marry in the first place, or do they feel the option should be left in the game but with more discouragement from the Council? I rather hoped there was an intervention type thing, then you ahve a long discussion with the masters etc. and even a remorseful break up after promising marriage, to the order must come first. but meh.(none ofthe options darksided but just a final are you sure decision? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pencilstubs Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) I rather hoped there was an intervention type thing, then you ahve a long discussion with the masters etc. and even a remorseful break up after promising marriage, to the order must come first. but meh.(none ofthe options darksided but just a final are you sure decision? I wouldn't have minded this at all, so long as I still retained the option to disagree with the Council's views and go ahead with the marriage. Would have been very interesting to see Satele Shan's input in this kind of situation, as she has a child of her own. Edited January 22, 2012 by Pencilstubs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerJBD Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Scramble, it's referenced countless times in the films that a Jedi should not love (as in relationship style). If it wasn't such a big deal Anakin and Padme really wouldn't be going to such lengths to hide it from the council. They know the ramifications of openly being in a relationship. See, this is my problem with your argument. It is never really stated in the original trilogy. Nothing about a Jedi having children or being married is mentioned in a negative way. Only in the prequels is this concept that Jedi shouldn't marry brought up. And that stance turns out to be horribly awful and leads to the virtual extinction of the Jedi because Anakin felt obligated to hide his relationship with Padme. Why should a policy that was endorsed by a clearly moronic Jedi Council be assumed to extend thousands of years into the past, especially when the extended universe clearly shows Jedi getting married and having kids all over the place? Furthermore, it is not just romantic love that is frowned upon by the Council. Anakin's first steps toward the dark side are because of his mother, and it is implied that such an attachment can lead to the dark side just as easily as a romantic relationship. It is also mentioned in KOTOR in the Bastilla companion quest. Luke relishes in those relationships both with his own father, which leads to the redemptive ending, and with Han and Leia and his other friends. Those loving relationships SAVE THE DAY in the end. I have no problem with the Jedi Council generally frowning upon romantic attachments, but it is clearly not forbidden as so many Jedi of this era were involved with others. To me, the lesson of the original trilogy is that the Jedi Council's stance against attachments to loved ones is proven wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGMetal Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Satele Shan: directly descended from 2 Jedi. No Jedi love/marriage; no Satele. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcrirTwyLar Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Every class can get married. It ties into the legacy system. Also look at Anakin, Etain, and Kento Marek, there's quite a few Jedi in lore who've been married. Um, what? It ties into the legacy system? Is that confirmed? Does that mean I miss out on some legacy stuff if I choose not to marry her? Because I find the whole marrying my padawan thing kind of disgusting. Like a teacher marrying his student. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zayta Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) I don't buy the "this is the EU" argument. On Tython there is a side quest about two Jedi padawins. Letting their love remain a secret is a dark side choice. Exposing them is a light side choice. Clearly in this game a Jedi in love is not allowed and is a dark side decision. Edited January 23, 2012 by Zayta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcrirTwyLar Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I don't buy the "this is the EU" argument. On Tython there is a side quest about two Jedi padawins. Letting their love remain a secrete is a dark side choice. Exposing them is a light side choice. Clearly in this game a Jedi in love is not allowed and is a dark side decision. Very good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pencilstubs Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I don't buy the "this is the EU" argument. On Tython there is a side quest about two Jedi padawins. Letting their love remain a secret is a dark side choice. Exposing them is a light side choice. Clearly in this game a Jedi in love is not allowed and is a dark side decision. Odd, I didn't get any dark side points for marrying Nadia. Perhaps because there's a difference between two young padawans who are trying to hide their infatuation from the people who seek to guide them and two experienced Jedi who do not feel ashamed for being in a healthy relationship. As I don't write the storylines within the game, I can only speculate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGMetal Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) I don't buy the "this is the EU" argument. On Tython there is a side quest about two Jedi padawins. Letting their love remain a secret is a dark side choice. Exposing them is a light side choice. Clearly in this game a Jedi in love is not allowed and is a dark side decision. During the JK romance questline, Kira mentions that they could go to the council about the relationship. Afterwards, she says they would allow it, but the Jedi would need to be monitored and separate much of the time. Which would suck. Also my JK married Kira in secret without one DS point in this game Edited January 23, 2012 by RGMetal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominoris Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 If it wasn't such a big deal Anakin and Padme really wouldn't be going to such lengths to hide it from the council. They know the ramifications of openly being in a relationship. Their relationship was as much a political misstep as a jedi code over step. It is hard to appear neutral when your members are married to queens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinidualia Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 "Not sure Anakin is a good example to be honest." Depends which side of the fence you sit on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyfy Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Just to stoke the flames a bit more, even in EU it would seem that relationships are frowned upon in the Jedi order. Back on Tython you have a quest to search out two Padawans that are in love per the request of a few masters that state that their love is forbidden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfumblez Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Hey, bro, don't be hating on my relationship with Nadia/Kira just because it's frowned upon. It's completely optional. Purists don't have to do it, and probably won't. I feel it adds more depth to the storyline, which is why I did it. Plus, I like the companions personalities'. The Council doesn't approve? Well, okay then, are you going to kick me out of the order? Remove my ability to interact with the Force? Doesn't matter, I've still got what you'll never experience. So, in essence, ha, ha ha ha, ha ha. Ha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saseav Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) I don't buy the "this is the EU" argument. On Tython there is a side quest about two Jedi padawins. Letting their love remain a secret is a dark side choice. Exposing them is a light side choice. Clearly in this game a Jedi in love is not allowed and is a dark side decision. The master was an old man who thought he was cursed with bad padawans, and those two padawans were if you recall were on the verge of the darkside(in ruins, that surprise can be considered a 'dark side nexus' so it was corrupting them as well.). Yes, the lightside option is to break them apart but really it would have been lightside anyways considering they were considering murdering you to keep the secret. In game, starting relationships your romance option tells you that nowhere is it forbidden/ It is heavily frowned upon, but they are theoretically allowed. Edited January 23, 2012 by Saseav Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eutoxis Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 So as long as she has no affection for her partners, casual boinking when my Consular gets the urge is perfectly fine is what I'm hearing. Love bad; romance bad; casual, zipless, one-night-stands good? Cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerJBD Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 "Frowned upon" is not the same as forbidden. And I continue to believe the concept that leads the Jedi to "frown upon" romantic attachments is flawed and even dangerous. So as a Jedi Master, I choose to marry my Padawan whether the stodgy council frowns upon it or not. The issue is being able to control and manage your emotions. If you can't do that within the framework of a romantic relationship, you probably won't be able to do so in the context of other relationships or stressful situations. I would also argue the support of a loving partner can be invaluable to a Jedi who is on the front lines of a terrible war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaldethar Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 "Attachment leads to Jealousy. The Shadow of Greed that is" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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