Rift? EvE? anything but WoW?

[Venothrax]

EVE is a great game to pvp in but the problem is you have to have been playing for months to get the skills to make you good at it but recommend it if you can wait.

[RubberSpanex]

I love EvE but the bottom line with that game is if you didnt play from start or you dont have millions of training points your screwed lol.

 

Me and a few friends tried to play EvE a couple years back. Put a few hard training months into the game and farmed like made till we were at a few million training points. Jumped in some battleships we had (after researching different builds for our ships first and getting them decked out with top notch devices) went out to nullsec to pick a fight. Found a single battlecruiser (it was a tier 1 and battlecruiser are LESSER then battleships) and he just destroyed ALL of us with little to no effort.

 

ALL because he had WAY more time put into the game then we did. Thats when we all quit lol.

 

I know EvE players would ***** an moan but IMO EvE would get a LOT more subs if they just started a new fresh server.

 

Wrong on very many levels. Having played EvE for over a year on two different accounts and done Fleet Warfare, Skirmishes and pirating, it's all about the skills actually trained. If you decide to get into a Battleship before learning level 4 of it's skills, you aren't going to perform well... at all. In fact, someone trained to 4 in Battlecruisers probably WOULD wreck a group of players in higher level ships if they didn't train up to us them. You also have to factor in the gun "sizes" Battleships equip "large" weapons, while Battlecruisers use "medium". A large weapon has a lot of difficulty hitting a smaller ship because it's tracking speed is slower, where as a "medium" weapon can hit larger ships easily because it's tracking speed is faster and the larger ships have a slower velocity. You also have "falloff" to worry about and "optimal range" of your weapons. Someone with 50m skill points vs someone with 10m skill points both going at it in Cruisers, would basically be equal. I highly doubt you were in "decked out" Battleships and lost to a Battlecruiser. If you were "decked out" and trained to use the fittings correctly you wouldn't have posted what you did. Also since your skills train even when you're not playing, you don't have to invest a damn thing into the game to train your skills, except for the monthly subscription. There's actually A LOT to EvE's PvP system, but it does get pretty dull.

 

 

 

Anyway, enough about EvE. A previous poster mentioned something about "when DAOC was out", the game is still out, it just has less than 1500 people playing it still. 10 years is a long time for an MMO. UO is still alive and kicking as well and I loved PvP in that game... was great.

 

Rift was fun, but it reminded me a lot of WoW PvP.

 

Other's mentioned Guild Wars, yes several years ago I would have brought up Guild Wars as well, however it's lost a lot of it's appeal. Pre-mades are where it's at in that game. Alliance Battles are pretty much zerg vs zerg running around control points, unless you get one of the few maps that's not set up that way. The few times it's fun, is when you do random arena's.

Edited January 22, 2012 by RubberSpanex

[Absolvus]

PvE - ToR

PvP - (for some fun) ToR

 

Real skill based PvP - Battlefield 3

[bknemesis]

You are incorrect, its a pure MMO, this is a fact.They ditched the GW1 system this is an open persistent world not like tors where everything is instanced.

 

EVE's pvp is what you make it, I was running scout last night for 2 frieghters an 35 support ships through Stain,me and another 2 scouts were the only thing between getting hot dropped an finding a clear path home.It has a full player economy, everytihng is made by the players.

 

Politics out the warzoo... an very quick instant an messy death if you mess up.

EVE is about you playing for yourself,you cant be griefed there is no such thing as calling a GM cos freddy killed me while I was fighting an NPC it isnt fair!!... GM will just say "pvp happened"

 

the best thing about eve is the don't fly it if you cant afford to lose it system, or as most 0.0 pilots put it, surprise butsecks..

 

one aspect of eve that beats any mmo is the spreadsheets in space component, everything in the game, from mods, to ships, outposts, and the materials are either made, manufactured, built, or harvested by a player. Everything from shuttles to titans are built by players, corporations, or alliances.

 

With this you run into another aspect of pvp, corporate espionage, social engineering, scamming, and other forms of piracy. I got a friend who makes billions selling "slightly damaged" "used" faction ships.

[BegaTasty]

the best thing about eve is the don't fly it if you cant afford to lose it system, or as most 0.0 pilots put it, surprise butsecks..

 

one aspect of eve that beats any mmo is the spreadsheets in space component, everything in the game, from mods, to ships, outposts, and the materials are either made, manufactured, built, or harvested by a player. Everything from shuttles to titans are built by players, corporations, or alliances.

 

With this you run into another aspect of pvp, corporate espionage, social engineering, scamming, and other forms of piracy. I got a friend who makes billions selling "slightly damaged" "used" faction ships.

 

I taught my guild in Rift about "eve spying" an I was kicked out for "anti social gameplay"... welcome to the gimmi generation that have no idea if it doesn't include shinys its bad.

(So I sold them out to the enemy when they did a outdoor raid) lol

 

I would kill to see EVE systems in a theme park like Tor, can you imagine the absolute hysterics from a BG bot when he steps out of the farming ground an loses all his shinys in 1 kill.... I would die laughing.

[Sabbathius]

You do realize "a few million" doesn't cut it for battleships?

 

You just made typical noob mistakes everyone and his mother warns you about.

 

Battleships were a mistake, yes.

 

But let's be honest for a second here. A couple of months worth of training is what, 2-3 mil SP? That's nothing. That's not enough for decent drone skills FFS!

 

Now, to continue the honesty. When these guys, with 2-3 mil SP each, run into ONE guy who's been playing for a while. As in 50+ mil. What's going to happen to them? I don't care how skilled these guys are as PLAYERS. Their CHARACTERS cannot put up a fight. EVE is the only MMO I know of where player skill is below pretty much everything, including ship fittings.

 

Let me give you an example. Me, with 50 mil SP. You, with 500 SP. You are FANTASTIC player, I mean OMG. You walk into a field, and cows tip themselves over in an 8 mile radius you're so awesome! We each grab a Rifter, best fittings money can buy (and your character's nonexistent skills can fit, hehe). As long as I have enough skill to mouse over you, click target and then mouse over my active modules and click them each once, you will die a horrible fiery death.

 

That's EVE PvP in a nutshell. Everything > player skill. As much as I love that game, I absolutely loathe the way PvP is done in it.

 

Now, imagine EVE where there ARE no character skills! Where fittings you can put in are only controlled by the hull, where a total noob is as effective with a weapon system as someone who spent 6 months maxing it, where combat is AIM based and defenses are evasion/movement based. If EVE was like that, I'd sink my teeth into it and never leave. But as it is now? Especially with recent space barbies and NEX? Stay far away.

Edited January 22, 2012 by Sabbathius

[bknemesis]

I taught my guild in Rift about "eve spying" an I was kicked out for "anti social gameplay"... welcome to the gimmi generation that have no idea if it doesn't include shinys its bad.

(So I sold them out to the enemy when they did a outdoor raid) lol

 

I would kill to see EVE systems in a theme park like Tor, can you imagine the absolute hysterics from a BG bot when he steps out of the farming ground an loses all his shinys in 1 kill.... I would die laughing.

 

Im dating myself with this, but the vitae dp, and body system for Asherons Call would work well also, where you drop your highest cash value items first, on darktide you'd see naked people with nodrop weapons trying to get to their stuff back

[BegaTasty]

Battleships were a mistake, yes.

 

But let's be honest for a second here. A couple of months worth of training is what, 2-3 mil SP? That's nothing. That's not enough for decent drone skills FFS!

 

Now, to continue the honesty. When these guys, with 2-3 mil SP each, run into ONE guy who's been playing for a while. As in 50+ mil. What's going to happen to them? I don't care how skilled these guys are as PLAYERS. Their CHARACTERS cannot put up a fight. EVE is the only MMO I know of where player skill is below pretty much everything, including ship fittings.

 

Let me give you an example. Me, with 50 mil SP. You, with 500 SP. You are FANTASTIC player, I mean OMG. You walk into a field, and cows tip themselves over in an 8 mile radius you're so awesome! We each grab a Rifter, best fittings money can buy (and your character's nonexistent skills can fit, hehe). As long as I have enough skill to mouse over you, click target and then mouse over my active modules and click them each once, you will die a horrible fiery death.

 

That's EVE PvP in a nutshell. Everything > player skill. As much as I love that game, I absolutely loathe the way PvP is done in it.

 

Now, imagine EVE where there ARE no character skills! Where fittings you can put in are only controlled by the hull, where a total noob is as effective with a weapon system as someone who spent 6 months maxing it, where combat is AIM based and defenses are evasion/movement based. If EVE was like that, I'd sink my teeth into it and never leave. But as it is now? Especially with recent space barbies and NEX? Stay far away.

 

thats a silly fps game, tor has that, its called a rail shooter... EVE is NOT that an should never be that. Dark prophecy tried it, an it is seriously bad.

EVE is about tactics an numbers not clicking faster than other guy.

[mastersloup]

I am definitely going to get GW2, but its not an MMO its a CORPG (co-op rpg).

 

Gw2 not a mmo? are you high?

[BegaTasty]

Im dating myself with this, but the vitae dp, and body system for Asherons Call would work well also, where you drop your highest cash value items first, on darktide you'd see naked people with nodrop weapons trying to get to their stuff back

 

Lemmi guess, you were....blood ? that idiot had a pole up his arse so tall you could fly a flag off his head

I was on FF third tier under Animal (god bless the patron system) lol

[aranha]

A few million is enough for Battleships nowadays since they removed the "Learning" skills alltogether!

[Rymes]

My 2 cents maybe someone mentioned it World of Tanks is a great alternative and a different game experience but well worth it, constant PvP and you actually have to think about what you are doing not just button mash or macro mash and best thing....it's free:)

[bknemesis]

Let me give you an example. Me, with 50 mil SP. You, with 500 SP. You are FANTASTIC player, I mean OMG. You walk into a field, and cows tip themselves over in an 8 mile radius you're so awesome! We each grab a Rifter, best fittings money can buy (and your character's nonexistent skills can fit, hehe). As long as I have enough skill to mouse over you, click target and then mouse over my active modules and click them each once, you will die a horrible fiery death.

 

EVE pvp is highly situational an example, I'm currently at 72mil sp, at the time of this fight i was probably 60m or so...

 

we were running a shield cruiser, bc gang of about 40 5 scimmies, vulture, 2 onyx, falcon, bb, 5mixed frigs for tackle, a ferox, rest drakes and canes, we run into a 30-35 man Armor BS gang mosly tempests, megas, geddons, with 2 scorps supported by guardians.

 

result 24 kills 8 loses, 1.4billion isk in kills 400m in loses (falcon).

most of the t1 ships were less then 20m sp, the t2 were 07-08 players, most of their gang were 05-06 players, while they had the ewar advantage, our logi was better, and we shifted primary to keep their logi off balance.

[Aribethx]

PVP? The last time PVP in an MMO impressed me was when DAOC was out.

 

This. This x 10^E10

[AriasImmortal]

EVE is about time spent playing and numbers not clicking faster than other guy.

 

fixed that for ya. I can't stand EVE. At least in other MMOs the gap between players can be closed relatively quickly if the new player is skilled.

[bknemesis]

Lemmi guess, you were....blood ? that idiot had a pole up his arse so tall you could fly a flag off his head

I was on FF third tier under Animal (god bless the patron system) lol

 

lol.. I ran halfway across the world from him once (run spec ftw).. I mainly played on Harvestgain, on played DT when i wanted to be an ***

[XphaedX]

Ok, if you are using Shadowlame as your prime example of good PvP, then your idea of good PvP is pretty much in the sewers.

 

like i said, it's the only real pvp game out there that i know of except for eve. i challenge you to name one that is as truly open like they are/were. this latest trend of the game making all the rules (i.e. factions, instanced crap) instead of the players and their politics is very carebearish, and not what i'd consider real pvp.

 

It's because every PvP-centric MMO of the past 5 years has done fairly poor commercially.

Warhammer was a huge monetary investment that lost money for EA. That was the last foray into a pvp mmo for a large company. I personally loved Warhammer and wanted to see it become more than a game in maintenance mode.

 

warhammer was factioned. if the companies had the balls to have open pvp, they might do well. eve seems to be doing just fine. in fact, it's got many more players now than when it came out...9 YEARS AGO.

Edited January 22, 2012 by XphaedX

[Aandolas]

I am definitely going to get GW2, but its not an MMO its a CORPG (co-op rpg).

 

Actually you couldnt be more wrong. SW:TOR is a Co-Op RPG... GW was a Co-Op RPG GW2 is a MMORPG.

 

Taken from their own FAQ...

 

Will Guild Wars 2 be an MMO?

Yes. Guild Wars 2 provides a massive, online persistent world.

Edited January 22, 2012 by Aandolas

[BegaTasty]

fixed that for ya. I can't stand EVE. At least in other MMOs the gap between players can be closed relatively quickly if the new player is skilled.

 

there was nothing to be fixed, nor is your place to "fix anything" You can equal any player in EVE instantly the second you stasrt playing. YOu can buy a char off the bazzar forums in game. CCP promote char transfers between players, only for isk (in game currency). I sell my chars every few years an buy 2 or 3 new ones for a change of pace. Ive been playing 7 years.

[BegaTasty]

lol.. I ran halfway across the world from him once (run spec ftw).. I mainly played on Harvestgain, on played DT when i wanted to be an ***

 

AHHA yer I had run spec'd on my alts. When they dropped a nuke on Subway town It came in handy to move to shoushi.

[bknemesis]

fixed that for ya. I can't stand EVE. At least in other MMOs the gap between players can be closed relatively quickly if the new player is skilled.

 

once you get to 50-60m you've run out of things to really train, at 72m I can fly all races t1 sub caps, amarr, and caldari carriers and dreads, exhumers, ore command ships. I have all basic gunnery to 5, all t2 guns of all sizes, large pulse spec 5, etc....

 

a character specialized in HACs at 20m sp can fly that Heavy Assault Cruiser just as well or even better than me, same with a teir 1 BS.. The most expensive ship I pvp in is a T2 fitted Alpha Mael, or a Alpha Support Scorpian, and thats only for alliance ops. In general pvp, Im in a cheap raptor, manti, ferox, harbi, cyclone, or any other t1 cruiser/bc..

 

Its acually fun to give a bunch 2 month old characters unlimited rifters and tell them to go attack this alliance.. oh wait.. thats TEST.. those TESTies are terrible at the game.

[belialle]

like i said, it's the only real pvp game out there that i know of except for eve. i challenge you to name one that is as truly open like they are/were.

Face of Mankind is truly open. There are no levels. No skills. No quests, really. Everyone has access to the same gear. In theory, someone could be as effective from the moment their character steps out into the world as someone who has played since beta. There are factions, but there's nothing to keep you from killing your own team, except fear of retribution. The factions are run by the players themselves....but I'm sure it's not hard to imagine how that could lead to drama.

 

It could be a pretty cool game if anyone played it. Unfortunately, hardly anyone plays it because it has a lot of other problems.

[wixxkruppel]

if the companies had the balls to have open pvp, they might do well. eve seems to be doing just fine.

 

For every million reasonable people with common sense, there are 90 million idiots with no common sense (or even elementary grade logic). They just want instant gratification (like graphics), not accomplishment, or challenge.

 

Companies only strive for maximum profit.

 

Therefore big PUBLISHERS will only finance games marketed to the brainless ooze of the mass. Casuals, carebears, people who are willing to buy a game because it has good graphics.

 

It's why great single player games are ra*ed by making them portable to consoles, the home field of said players.

 

It's why there will never be a truly great EA game ever again. It's why BioWare will never make a great game again (with maybe the exception of ME3).

 

It's the reason tor sucks like it does. It's the reason gaming in general has gone down the drain since the late nineties (when gaming really got off and publishers weren't afraid to take risks).

 

 

The only fresh, innovating, open world pvp MMO's will come from relatively unknown companies. The reason why something like GW2 even got financed, is because it's guild wars TWO, and the ONE did well.

 

Sad part, it's working, because we are the underdog. EA will drive their lambos counting their money, because they managed to sell the same old crap with a new coat of paint.

 

It's why the minority of vocal people are so disappointed in swtor. We always expect maybe this game will be different (and this is where the hype machine and flat out lies in marketing come into play, as is the case with swtor).

 

And yes, while these forums are filled with negative feedback, the majority of the brainless ooze mass is completely happy with the game. Those are the players who don't get involved in the community.

 

While EvE is doing fine right now, there is ZERO chance of game a like that getting made while being published by EA.

 

When EvE started, it had a SMALL player base. It was RISKY financially.

 

EA can simply publish an average garbage game, hype it to extreme, and do more with box sales than EvE probably did during it's first years.

 

EA (and most other western publishers) wants instant, maximized profit. They won't commit funds to a game that's innovative and fresh (DIFFERENT), because there's RISK.

Edited January 22, 2012 by wixxkruppel

[bknemesis]

well honestly, pvp in eve while awsome on a grand scale of everything is player driven.. is rather boring at times.. its sad that while beating on a moon goo pos that half the fleet is alt tabbed playing world of tanks to get their pew vee pew fix...

[bknemesis]

For every million reasonable people with common sense, there are 90 million idiots with no common sense (or even elementary grade logic). They just want instant gratification (like graphics), not accomplishment, or challenge.

 

Companies only strive for maximum profit.

 

Therefore big PUBLISHERS will only finance games marketed to the brainless ooze of the mass. Casuals, carebears, people who are willing to buy a game because it has good graphics.

 

It's why great single player games are ***** by making them portable to consoles.

 

It's why there will never be a truly great EA game ever again.

 

It's the reason tor sucks like it does. It's the reason gaming in general has gone down the drain since ~2000 (when gaming really got off and publishers weren't afraid to take risks).

 

 

The only fresh, innovating, open world pvp MMO's will come from relatively unknown companies. The reason why something like GW2 even got financed, is because it's guild wars TWO, and the ONE did well.

 

Sad part, it's working, because we are the underdog. EA will drive their lambos counting their money, because they managed to sell the same old crap with a new coat of paint.

 

It's why people are so disappointed in swtor. We always expect maybe this game will be different (and this is where the hype machine and flat out lies in marketing come into play).

 

Considering Arenanet is under ncsoft, a Korean based dev/pub is the reason thy can be innovative with pvp, NC and other Korean based games are geared toward a different gamer segment, one thats highly competitive and those the power grinds and open pvp. Lineage, Lineage 2, Aion, and blade & soul, all have involuntary pvp, and pvp is a major component. Even other korean pub games, like Atlantica, RF online, etc show this trend.