sabresandiego Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) No class should be able to bring another class to 30% health or less in the timespan of a surprise stunlock from stealth that does not allow the victim to move, react, respond, or do anything at all if their trinket is down. Any class caught with their CC-Break ability on cooldown is a free kill for this overpowered class right now. This is exactly what operatives and scoundrels can do to fully battlemaster geared players on live. It is absolutely broken and the fix was mandatory. The multiple fixes for patch 1.1 are excellent, despite the whines of biased Operative/Scoundrel players who cannot see past their own selfish agenda. Every other class in the game is very happy to see the fixes. Edited January 21, 2012 by sabresandiego Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshalleck Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Good thing the changes will be tested about as thoroughly as Ilum, and will be just as successful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avia Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Grats on mentioning how most of us actually don't give a **** about the hidden strike nerfs, we just don't want our PvE damage gutted due to the acid blade change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightfalll Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 No class should be able to bring another class to 30% health or less in the timespan of a surprise stunlock from stealth that does not allow the victim to move, react, respond, or do anything at all if their trinket is down. Any class caught with their CC-Break ability on cooldown is a free kill for this overpowered class right now. This is exactly what operatives and scoundrels can do to fully battlemaster geared players on live. It is absolutely broken and the fix was mandatory. The multiple fixes for patch 1.1 are excellent, despite the whines of biased Operative/Scoundrel players who cannot see past their own selfish agenda. Every other class in the game is very happy to see the fixes. This is truth............. Well said sir, well said...Obviously the ops are hollering louder then a stuck pig, but they know, KNOW, they need to be toned down. They try to justify why they shouldnt, but cant string coherent logic into the attempt. They are beyond out of control, GODMODE PVP. And they need to be put into line with other classes.. WELL DONE BIO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProsaicProse Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I don't care about your PvP. It has nothing to do with me. However, people are messing with my PvE over it and that's not cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattjgibson Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) I don't care about your PvP. It has nothing to do with me. However, people are messing with my PvE over it and that's not cool. Operatives and Scoundrels are already bottom-feeders when it comes to PvE DPS viability. After 1.1.1, no group that wants to do the best it can will bring a Scoundrel or Operative in for DPS. BioWare already proving they listen to the person who cries the loudest, and doesn't listen to reason. These nerfs are far too much and are going to completely cripple the AC. Scoundrels and Operatives may as well spec healing (which is also pretty laughable) if they want to be accepted anywhere. But hey, if they listen to the community as well as they did about Ilum, I'm sure everything will turn out A-OK. Edited January 21, 2012 by mattjgibson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_zombie Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I don't care about your PvP. It has nothing to do with me. However, people are messing with my PvE over it and that's not cool. It's bound to happen. And if it does hurt operative dps as much as everyone is saying, they'll be making changes. This is an MMO, you have to expect class changes all the time. Good or bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mardur Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 The multiple fixes for patch 1.1 are excellent, despite the whines of biased Operative/Scoundrel players who cannot see past their own selfish agenda. Every other class in the game is very happy to see the fixes. And if YOU could see past through YOUR selfish agenda, you would say FIX is mandatory rather than a nerf. Why? Because if you simply take away the stealth opening burst you left close to nothing! Play a concealment Operative and you will see why. I agree that the opening is too much, both dmg both CC wise - despite that I have a concealment operative - but the correct way is not nerf it to the ground only. For example: 1. Nerf HS/Acid blade blabla, as it is planned. 2. Give something in return, like a gap closer, or take of Shiv's cooldown to make Op/Sco viable out-of-stealth, or something 3. Make Lethalty (and the Smuggler version) tree viable to not being relied on Shiv or Kolto Injection to pull out Cull (which is quite funny that a midrange skirmisher tree relies on a melee or a healing move, ROLFMAO). Or something similar to the above list. THIS would be the right way and make Op/Scoundrel inline but stll viable and useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProsaicProse Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 It's bound to happen. And if it does hurt operative dps as much as everyone is saying, they'll be making changes. This is an MMO, you have to expect class changes all the time. Good or bad. I expect class changes, but usually, PvE takes priority over PvP and I don't think the classes involved were overpowered in PvE. The idea of an MMO being balanced around PvP is kind of... daft, considering most of the content and experience is PvE based. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_zombie Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I expect class changes, but usually, PvE takes priority over PvP and I don't think the classes involved were overpowered in PvE. The idea of an MMO being balanced around PvP is kind of... daft, considering most of the content and experience is PvE based. Look at WoW, it balances all around PvP. You just gotta roll with the punches. I wish balances were only around PvE, but the reality of it is there are a lot of people who enjoy PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awdj Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) No class should be able to bring another class to 30% health or less in the timespan of a surprise stunlock from stealth that does not allow the victim to move, react, respond, or do anything at all if their trinket is down. Any class caught with their CC-Break ability on cooldown is a free kill for this overpowered class right now. This is exactly what operatives and scoundrels can do to fully battlemaster geared players on live. It is absolutely broken and the fix was mandatory. The multiple fixes for patch 1.1 are excellent, despite the whines of biased Operative/Scoundrel players who cannot see past their own selfish agenda. Every other class in the game is very happy to see the fixes. Yeah any class caught with CC-Break on cool down is in for it. If an operative/smuggler can't stealth he is pretty much easy picking, which is the reason for the high burst damage. You work as a team in Warzones, not alone. An operative/smuggler isn't going to attack you head on like a Sentinel/Guardian would, get over it. This is just a fix for ****** players who can't figure out away to get away from a well played op/smug. Edited January 21, 2012 by awdj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fergor Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Yeah any class caught with CC-Break on cool down is in for it. If an operative/smuggler can't stealth he is pretty much easy picking, which is the reason for the high burst damage. You work as a team in Warzones, not alone. An operative/smuggler isn't going to attack you head on like a Sentinel/Guardian would, get over it. This is just a fix for ****** players who can't figure out away to get away from a well played op/smug. It's for people who don't know how to kite. If they can't stand there and go through their damage rotation they get upset. I respecced my scoundrel to healing. Played a bunch of wzs and got jumped by a few OPs. Total joke. I got up, healed and kited. That's before the nerf. After the nerf the other team may as well be down a person if they have an OP/scrapper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillinvillain Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) No class should be able to bring another class to 30% health or less in the timespan of a surprise stunlock from stealth that does not allow the victim to move, react, respond, or do anything at all if their trinket is down. Any class caught with their CC-Break ability on cooldown is a free kill for this overpowered class right now. This is exactly what operatives and scoundrels can do to fully battlemaster geared players on live. It is absolutely broken and the fix was mandatory. The multiple fixes for patch 1.1 are excellent, despite the whines of biased Operative/Scoundrel players who cannot see past their own selfish agenda. Every other class in the game is very happy to see the fixes. This complaint from a Battlemaster Sentinal...this this is just tooooooooo good. hhhhhhhhhhhhhhahahahahaahahahahhhaahahahahahahahahah. Toning was needed, but only mild tweeks for PVP. But now they have decided to nuke 3 different abilities, 2 of which the nerfs only apply to PVE. Concealment's burst/sustained damage was already lacking in Endgame PVE, and now for got knows why, they've nerfed 2 talents (31pt and a mid-teir). For ****s sake at least give us some sustainable energy recoup with these nerfs! Edited January 21, 2012 by chillinvillain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navakai Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I don't care about your PvP. It has nothing to do with me. However, people are messing with my PvE over it and that's not cool. Hello "Me" Monster. I haven't seen you in a while I don't care about your Scoundrel or Operative. It has nothing to do with me. Hey lets just remove every other class from the game, and everyone else while we are at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avia Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Hello "Me" Monster. I haven't seen you in a while I don't care about your Scoundrel or Operative. It has nothing to do with me. Hey lets just remove every other class from the game, and everyone else while we are at it. Grats on coming off as a complete idiot. His post was simply a slightly more intuitive way to say "Don't nerf PvE for PvP." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineschmidt Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) It's bound to happen. And if it does hurt operative dps as much as everyone is saying, they'll be making changes. This is an MMO, you have to expect class changes all the time. Good or bad. While this is certainly true i expect them to test things through first, something they clearly failed hard at during the beta If the numbers warrants such a massive nerf how the hell did it make it out of beta? Either way i look at it i see massive gamedesigning fail from BW here. Nerfing a class, making them completely useless in pve just one month after launch? Not exactly confidence inspiring behaviour on their part Edited January 21, 2012 by lineschmidt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pansophist Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) Just going to use my post I made in the other thread...you know the one you guys should be using to discuss the nerf: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=1998066 As an assassin, I do not think the nerf is justified. I do not do the burst than an operative does. However, ever since I hit 50 operatives have become largely a joke to me. I run around with roughly 17k gear in almost full pvp t2. An operative jumps me and usually drops me to 9-10k. Then, the fight can go several ways. Operative can blow vanish and try to do the same thing again after he regens a tad (sometimes works, but really? He just wasted his vanish to kill one person). My team notices and tosses me a small heal and/or jumps the operative. Operative dies shortly thereafter unless he vanishes. I turn around and, for the large part, can drop most operatives to 0-30% before I die, depending upon the player skill/buffs/etc. Granted, this oftentimes involves force slows, stuns, timed mauls, to kite the operative/dps him down. Being able to start at 50% and drop an operative to death or near-death shows you how little sustained DPS they have and how much burst they have. I agree with nerfing their burst damage. But, they need to be able to keep up sustained DPS as well. One small thing to note though...I do use stealth...it gives me massive energy regeneration for the first bit out of stealth Edited January 21, 2012 by Pansophist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecoffeecup Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Hello "Me" Monster. I haven't seen you in a while I don't care about your Scoundrel or Operative. It has nothing to do with me. Hey lets just remove every other class from the game, and everyone else while we are at it. He has a point though. For some of us, PvP is the bane of our existence. This is not the first PvE nerf due to PvP I've had to endure, and it won't be the last. You know what, I wouldn't mind if they just decided once and for all whether this is a PvP game or a PvE game. They are not the first developers to think you can balance both at the same time. I sincerely doubt it can be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navakai Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Grats on coming off as a complete idiot. His post was simply a slightly more intuitive way to say "Don't nerf PvE for PvP." Thanks for your input. I'm well aware of what he was saying, and I responded to it. I'm sorry you didn't understand But it's ok, I've seen you around and understand that your comprehension and people skills aren't the best. And on the topic of nerfing PVE over PVP. We don't even have a combat log, and no one has any actual hard data on anything. Sure the scoundrel rotation feels horrible, but is it really as far behind as people think? This is a seperate, but very valid issue on it's own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecoffeecup Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) And on the topic of nerfing PVE over PVP. We don't even have a combat log, and no one has any actual hard data on anything. Sure the scoundrel rotation feels horrible, but is it really as far behind as people think? This is a seperate, but very valid issue on it's own. I think the "rotation" is great. It's not about spamming one button and you have to pay attention just a little bit. That's actually why I rerolled from operative to scoundrel to see the Republic side of things. Could have chosen another class, but I liked this one. Anyway the point is not whether damage is lacking (I never really thought this was the case myself, by the way), but whether it is ahead of that of other classes. If it isn't, there is no sense in nerfing it. Keep in mind I'm talking about PvE here. Edited January 22, 2012 by thecoffeecup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exittium Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) This is truth............. Well said sir, well said...Obviously the ops are hollering louder then a stuck pig, but they know, KNOW, they need to be toned down. They try to justify why they shouldnt, but cant string coherent logic into the attempt. They are beyond out of control, GODMODE PVP. And they need to be put into line with other classes.. WELL DONE BIO want some knee pads or a cloth to wipe ur mouth when ur done? Edited January 22, 2012 by Exittium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WheezingTHC Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 ever since the implementation of the lvl 50 bracket, i have had no qualms about pvping as an op in the lowbie bracket. while i dont normally top damage in a warzone (usually 3 or 4th), my Kill death ratio as well as the killing blow/total kills ratio has always been high, more then 50% of my kills are killing blows. i dont wait around for someone to wonder around by them selves, i just jump in the battle and hack away. oh i should mention i am currently lvl 27 so hidden strike, acid blade are things i have never had the pleasure of using. i am not sure if this will change after i hit 50 but at the moment i dont see how this nerf will destroy the class as everyone says it will. without using hidden strike, i have 2 ccs to use back to back to sustain dps in most situations since they dont fill resolve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shazzi Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 There is a upcoming patch 1.1.1 where IA and smuggs are getting a nerf. Acid Blade: Now provides 30% armor penetration while active. Jarring Strike: This ability now knocks the target down for 1.5 seconds. Hidden Strike: The damage output of this ability has been decreased by approximately 20% to control burst damage and because it was enabling significantly faster than intended kills in PvP. patch notes here; http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=212341 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatham Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Just going to use my post I made in the other thread...you know the one you guys should be using to discuss the nerf: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=1998066 This is basically my experience as well. When you're talking assassin vs. operative, 1v1, if I get the jump on the assassin I win with very little health left. If they jump me, they win. If we see each other out of stealth it depends on who has cooldowns up, but I'd say the assassin wins more often than not in this situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbocat Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 The nerf to hidden strike was needed, couldnt care less, but the nerf to jarring strike is to much! This is over nerf, 1.5 sec KD same as global cd, it will be useless. I think its enough with hidden strike and armor pen nerf, but seriouse KD nerf? thanks for destroying a class Scrubware Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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