ProsaicProse Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Arguing about actual numbers is a moot point considering the fundamental argument - PvP balancing should not affect PvE. Unfortunately, it usually does and often to undesirable effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pappus Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 YOu are talking about sustained dps and took an arrow to your opener... The armorpen won't do much at all in PvE. YOu have armordebuffs on the mob already so what armor you gut in half won't even matter much anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecoffeecup Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 You can complain all you want, but if you can't prove it wasn't warrented a lot of people aren't going to take you seriously. You yourself have said that the change happened to fix an imbalance in PvP. So we're obviously on the same page about this: it's a PvP nerf. It affects PvE. Since you can't explain why that's fair you now want me to prove mathematically using the non-existant combat log that it isn't fair. We just aren't going to get very far with this, are we? A PvE nerf is justified if DPS is too high. We don't have a combat log parse to talk about, but yet again I'd like to point out that you're not seeing anyone complain about operative/scoundrel PvE DPS being too high. Isn't it a bit odd if there's a big imbalance in PvE that nobody noticed it? My main point isn't even about operatives and scoundrels at all. It's about how you balance a game. I don't think it's fair to let a PvP nerf affect PvE. I think it's fair to nerf in PvE if that is what it's all about, but when PvP whining starts dictating how we play in PvE, there's something really wrong. We can keep disagreeing forever about this. But instead I think I'll go play the game now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverWF Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 So, give to opers abylity to: 1. Deal ordinary damage, low cost and didnt requires anything. 2. Ability to not let taget just go away. Root without possiblity to cleanse it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasheth Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I agree. These changes directly effect operative PVE performance. IT SHOULD NOT. If (and that's a big if) bioware on adjusted purely because of pvp cause that would not be good judgement. If you just look around the forums it's almost 90% pvp centric. That's not biowares fault at all. Almost every thread pvp is mentioned almost every QQ pvp is mentioned. If you were new to MMO genre you would think it was designed around pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokosteef Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 For some reason my thread got closed and I got pointed to here, so my post will be placed here as requested. The PVE consequences of a Scrapper/Concealment Note: As I am a republic player, I will be using the Republic equivalent for my example. A Scrapper's opener in PVP was too strong, I am the first to admit this. However, in PvE a Scrapper was already underpowered. On a boss, it's all about a strong opener, but very low sustainable DPS. The only way to even remotely keep up the damage was to reapply Flechette round whenever avaiable. Now, with the PVE game already being heavily ranged favoured, (no disadvantages for ranged, a lot of bosses with AoE attacks, knocbacks, adds always spawning right next to the boss, there is even a boss with a pure anti-melee shield) you are making it even worse for the melee. Basically what this patch does for a PvE scrapper: 20% less armor penetration on flechette round The biggest and most important one. This decreases our already below-par sustainable dps, because it gives 20% less on all attacks. Hidden Strike decreased by approximately 20% to control burst damage Decreases our only DPS increase, and gives us nothing in return. Jarring Strike: This ability now knocks the target down for 1.5 seconds. Making this talent close to useless. For clarity, 2 point have to be put into this tree for the extra 1,5 second stun. With the 3 seconds, you had time for a blaster whip, a suckerpunch, and then a free cost backstab. The free backstab made our energy managable. Now however, you will have to open with the backstab, thus decreasing our output even more. My suggestions: Apply the 1,5 second stun, burst and penetration debuffs to Player targets only, or give Scrappers/Operatives higher sustainable dps. You are only acting on whines to statisfy the majority of the playerbase (sorcerers) and COMPLETELY overlooking the PVE perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nessirin Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) @Kai Wait wait wait... you're actually trying to say that a FLAT OUT 20% armor pen nerf on a class that gets 90% of their attacks reduced by armor... isn't a nerf, because we don't have a combat log? If you played an op, you'd know how horrible our sustain is in concealment. I bet you're not even past normal mode bonethrasher, with that much knowledge about our class. Anyone who raids will tell you that our sustain is laughable compared to every other class, combat log or not, its flat out obvious. A "there is no combat log" defense is stupid, you and I and everyone else knows these nerfs, including the armor pen nerf, were PvP nerfs, so our damage would tone down to heavy armored targets. It was flat out poor thinking on the PvE side. No one is stacking operatives. Because we're subpar in pve right now. Yes we earn our spots in the raid if we're good, and we contribute, but compared to other classes that sit there watching TV while dpsing, we're pathetically subpar. Edited January 23, 2012 by Paralassa insults Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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