Why is Watchman so good in PvP?

[LiveandDieinLA]

Im curious how hard people generally hit with merciless slash? and what is the focus cost?

 

In combat spec i generally hit with my bladestorm for 3.5-4.5 k, at cost of 2 focus on a 9 second cooldown.

[ztee]

Im curious how hard people generally hit with merciless slash? and what is the focus cost?

 

In combat spec i generally hit with my bladestorm for 3.5-4.5 k, at cost of 2 focus on a 9 second cooldown.

 

i average 5k's with bladestorm, and under the optimal conditions for MS ive only hit a 4k .... so not sure whats going on there ....

[TheRealBrave]

Just lol@ the bads that think Combat burst is better than Watchman's. Combat won't have a place until Rated Warzones. Watchmen will lose some of it's power when healers learn how to dispel more often (which they will in Rated's). Right now for Pugs, Premade 4 mans it's Watchman > Focus > Combat. (None of the specs are bad, all are more than viable).

 

People who argue that interrupts are a joke are terribads. You basically trade a global cooldown to waste 1-3 seconds of their time while your assist train wrecks the healer. All it takes is one or two global cooldowns wasted by a healer to secure that kill.

 

Combat will do better in Rated's than PUGs with more dedicated healers and tanks on both teams.

Edited January 23, 2012 by TheRealBrave

[reganomics]

the new 'disciple of Kain'?

[AASmirnov]

So what's the right rotation to make Watchmen work? There are dozens of threads about different Watchmen rotations and what to press after what to best effect, what is the current consensus on the issue?

[Notensack]

Watchmen will lose some of it's power when healers learn how to dispel more often

Watchmen loses all of it's power when the target is dead to front loaded damage.

[firesprite_ea]

I really do not understand why ppl insist that mesciless slash >>> blade storm in combat.

 

Sure, the basic number might seem big enough but then you have:

- no guaranteed crit on MS vs BS

- MS dmg will be reduced greatly by armour. Min 20% (healer class/ light armour) and 45% (tanks + kinetic shadow). This lowers the dmg greatly. BS dmg is also reduced but then we have precision slash for 100% armour penetration so it matters not what sort of armour they have.

- cooldown. 9sec on BS vs abt 10sec (lets say you used MS a couple of times for that merciless perk).

- focus price: 5 focus (1 returned, but you need to have 5 to do it) vs 2 focus.

- range: 4 meters for MS vs 10m for BS

- kinda important untill they introduce autoface target: you need to face the enemy to use MS. Wih BS direction is not important (shoot behind your back ftw).

- Oh and blade storm gets a nice +30% crit dmg from skills.

[RamzaBehoulve]

 

Combat will do better in Rated's than PUGs with more dedicated healers and tanks on both teams.

 

Been saying that for weeks.

[Shammus]

Sorry for opening a thread like this again, but it have been bugging me for quite some time. As far as I see, Watchman is a DoT tree. And DoTs are weaker in PvP due to presence of healers, so often mentioned 300K damage can be poured into one character and be not enough to kill him, if he's getting heals. Why is then Watchman considered superior to Combat in PvP? Is Merciless Slash that good?

 

They are so good in pvp because bioware is nerfing everything else.

[Yargok]

Been saying that for weeks.

 

No one has said otherwise.

 

Just happens to be so that there are no rated warzones and combat somewhat relies on a team/healer.

[Soulaufein]

Sorry for opening a thread like this again, but it have been bugging me for quite some time. As far as I see, Watchman is a DoT tree. And DoTs are weaker in PvP due to presence of healers, so often mentioned 300K damage can be poured into one character and be not enough to kill him, if he's getting heals. Why is then Watchman considered superior to Combat in PvP? Is Merciless Slash that good?

 

The healing is really the only aspect going for it.

 

People get fooled by the DPS charts, because Watchman spreads a lot of Dot, elemental (non-mitigated) damage. But a big chunk of it inconsequential, not to mention the fact ALL of it is dispellable. Once people start to get the hang of PvP and get to know each classes's specs, Watchman damage will be dispelled like no tomorrow.

 

But then again, we are overall considered a bad class and people may not even care about dispelling a Sentinel's damage. It bites them in the *** though

[RamzaBehoulve]

To be honest, after going back to Focus today after a long time time ignoring it... blows watchman out of the Water completely as far as raw killing potential goes. Sadly, its huge burst is also its downfall in organised PvP if you miss your timing because you have zero DPS so to speak past that Sweep for about 9s. Edited January 23, 2012 by RamzaBehoulve

[SunwindIon]

Because you can win by battle of attrition. You DoT them and burn them down while using your many avoidance / defensive cooldowns, CCing them and such until they're dead and you're still on full HP.

 

I rock in PvP.

[RamzaBehoulve]

Because you can win by battle of attrition. You DoT them and burn them down while using your many avoidance / defensive cooldowns, CCing them and such until they're dead and you're still on full HP.

 

I rock in PvP.

 

There is no battle of attrition if they have a competent healer. You'll just be doing meaningless damage they can counter with fast, low HPs heals and HoTs.

 

A real battle of attrition is a Necromancer/Mesmer team backed up by monks in Guild Wars. Here, it's a joke.

[SunwindIon]

There is no battle of attrition if they have a competent healer. You'll just be doing meaningless damage they can counter with fast, low HPs heals and HoTs.

 

A real battle of attrition is a Necromancer/Mesmer team backed up by monks in Guild Wars. Here, it's a joke.

 

So attack the healer. We have the -20% healing recieved ability to use on them, and multiple ways of interrupting or holding them while they get burned down.

[Xilrasis]

Not really sure why people throw around misconceptions about watchman like "Spreading dots around" and "still damaging my target even when not in melee range."

 

Its not like we have no cooldown, long duration dots that we can put on everyone.

 

We have two moderate cooldown dots with a duration that is shorter than their cooldown, so we're not "Spreading inconsequential damage". Instead, Cauterize/Overload are basically just another ability that does "x" damage, where "x" is just spread out over a duration. Its all about damage per cast time, where cast time for a Sentinel is 1.5 seconds. Cauterize/Overload just happen to be the largest damage abilities we can fit in a global. Not to mention dots spread out the pressure so that when burst comes its coupled with several dot ticks as well.

[Kyromoo]

Ways I used Crippling Throw today:

 

1. Peeled a Marauder off of my healer.

2. Peeled an Operative off of my healer.

3. Halted a charging Inquisitor in his tracks.

4. Stopped a healer from running away to his friends at the other door in Voidstar.

5. Prevented an enemy from getting line of sight on the door at voidstar, resulting in a successful plant.

 

 

Oh. And i used it to Mortal Strike when i assisted others in killing their targets. I would hardly argue it useless.

 

Master strike's immobilize may not work ALL the time, but it sure does work often enough for me to use it as a burst mechanic.

 

 

Combat might not do the overall damage that Watchman does, but i WOULD argue that Combat's burst is harder to react to than Watchman, and is more likely to get a kill on your target, especially between the autocrit 10m Blade Storm and the 15m (pvp set bonus) Dispatch.

 

 

That said, I'd also agree that Combat benefits from teamplay far more than Watchman.

[EasymodeX]

Well, this thread is entertaining.

 

Instead of responding to random bits of stupidity, I'll re-state what I've stated before in other threads with some additional information as pertains to random bits that people have posted.

 

 

1. Watchman

 

The bleeds are short in duration in general. OCS spikes high and functions as delayed burst. When you Merc Slash, it is usually within 1.0 seconds of a 1k-2k OCS tick. This is why Watchman has very functional burst. The Merc Slash alone will typically crit at 3k-5k. The OCS can crit at 1k-2k. This doesn't even factor in Cauterize. The OCS and Caut DOT ticks are also reliable, since they penetrate armor.

 

Overall, Watchman's core advantages are the 6s interrupt and reliable damage. Watchman's damage has a major spike every Merc + OCS + Caut tick. It has minor spikes every Merc or OCS + Slash. With good crit luck and preloaded focus, buffs, and cooldowns, you can melt a target pretty damn fast.

 

This combination, along with self-heals, makes Watchman the best 1v1 spec, and the best healer-harassment / leghump-you-will-die-without-assistance spec. It makes it very good in pug warfare to kill enemy healers and to otherwise abuse your opponent in 1vX situations.

 

In premades it offers group heal support or high-octane Transcendence with the fast Centering gen.

 

 

2. Focus

 

Contrary to popular belief, the spec does not only provide omega Sweeps. Exhaust itself does a ****ton of damage, the Blade Storms are buffed appropriately (20% passive armor pen and 30% crit damage), and the Slash/ZLs are buffed. It has quite decent sustained. The issue here is that it does take a lot of practice to be able to omega Sweep on reflex without thought, so that you can actually pay mental attention to using your good array of sustained attacks. Also, the first 3 Sweeps are only 9s apart.

 

The other bonus of the spec and damage methodology is that the Sweep should be timed with the Exhaust expiration, for a very sharp spike in damage. That combo can hit 8k on the same timestamp, with a 3.5k Blade Storm the next global (and due to the Sweep animation delay, all 3 damage ticks can land within 1.0 seconds with good timing).

 

Focus is also significantly harder to kite than Watchman. Over Watchman, you gain a 10m snare, a 10m charge2. You also, particularly in a premade, have perma-Transcendence, which is pretty significant.

 

Tactically, Focus is great to do raw damage. To focus fire everything and to apply significant pressure on several segments of the enemy's group. Due to the significant Sweep damage, the enemy is forced to react to you and therefore become predictable. The AOE spike and specific abuses you can unload against a guarded target provide good tactical options for a premade to crack another.

 

Focus specs are also harder to burst down due to the passive damage mitigation and fast GBTF cooldown.

 

For solo, Focus is competent, but will be blunted by many classes that can dodge Sweeps. For any pug v premade, premade v pug, or premade v premade, Focus performs effectively in all arenas, but will never be good at dropping a single healer 1v1 -- Focus has good mobility utility, but not shutdown with interrupts and 0m charge.

 

 

3. Combat

 

Combat is the least-kiteable spec. 15% run speed is a pretty good amount, and combined with the 10m root means no one will ever remove themselves from you. Removing you from them via knockback does happen, but that's what charge is for. It has the highest contact time of the 3 specs. If you're being kited, you're doing something significantly wrong.

 

Combat has some great scaling -- all its core abilities have 30% bonus crit damage, and multiproc Blade Rush can be pretty lulzy, especially when you can pop it every *********** GCD as long as your focus holds out.

 

Tactically, Combat provides pretty high sustained damage in a very continuous manner. Its burst, through Precision, allows it to spike to the 9k range, but the spike is not synchronized -- the damage is separated by GCDs. This means that Combat has the least burst of the 3 specs, despite the fact that Precision screams "HEY I'M SUPPOSED TO MAKE THIS SPEC BURST". What it does have is very reliable burst, WHEN Precision is up. The autocrit Blade Storm and multiple Ataru proc events see to that.

 

That said, Combat still retains the most flexible target switching capabilities. It has no DOTs and all its buffs are carried on the player, not the target. It also has a desireable heal debuff on top (e.g. you actually want to use it most of the time, unlike the other specs).

 

In terms of what gameplay Combat is good at ... Combat has great utility and contact time, but slightly poor defensive sustain. Its burst is actually less than Watchman/Focus, but it can target switch very quickly and its burst is very reliable.

 

In sum, it demands a premade so you can actually get the killing throughput with teammate burst. Its utility is also only really useful AGAINST a premade, where target switching actually matters, and your unkiteability is actually relevant.

 

For anything else, it's subpar for a variety of reasons.

[Miraodus]

Snip!

 

Great post EasymodeX!

 

Have you made the switch from Rift too?

[RamzaBehoulve]

About time Easy appeared.

[Swarna]

"Watchman" and "no burst" should never be in the same sentence. Edited January 23, 2012 by Swarna

[Rykzon]

Great post easy, really helped me out with my 20 sentinel to look into the specs. Im curious what would be the best spec for lower levels? I've figured it could be focus cause the longer root and 2 charge and nice crits can really mess newbs up. What would you guys say?

[EasymodeX]

Lower levels is a completely different question. The answer for that is simple: go Watchman.

 

1. The first tier talents are the best talents for a leveling Sent in all the trees. At low levels, your focus gen is poor. Focus refund and cost reduction on pretty much your only skills is major.

 

2. OCS at level 20 makes the spec good for a long time.

 

Focus as a spec does not catch up until mid levels. Combat does not catch up until 40/43. Just the way the specs are set up. Watchman scales well quickly. Combat is too top-heavy for synergy.

 

The other specs are playable at low levels, but it's just way easier as Watchman.

 

 

Have you made the switch from Rift too?

 

Yes. I've posted pretty frequently and accrued a good pile of warnings and infractions on this and the Marauder forums o.O. I dumped Rift when Skyrim came out .

 

 

About time Easy appeared.

 

I don't post on weekends. I'm in the game smashing faces or playing my alts, lol.

Edited January 23, 2012 by EasymodeX

[thanealpha]

Well, this thread is entertaining.

 

.

 

I agree with everything in your post, with one caveat.

 

Combat is HOSED if you're affected by the Stuttering issue. Bladestorm taking 3-4 animations to fire is crippling to our dps output.

[Miraodus]

Yes. I've posted pretty frequently and accrued a good pile of warnings and infractions on this and the Marauder forums o.O. I dumped Rift when Skyrim came out .

 

lol well you'll have to forgive me for missing your posts. Since I started playing SWTOR, I've been playing a Jedi Shadow and therefore have been lurking about their forums. It wasn't until recent that I came across Jedi Sentinel. Therefore, you'll see me on these forums more often (provided I have something useful to contribute lol).

 

As for me and Rift, let's just say I'm done playing that game for awhile. I love Rift but until they fix my darn MDPS Cleric, I'mma gonna stick with SWTOR and wreck some faces with my level 10 Sentinel (was top damage, kills, accrued 6 medals that game AND had a modest amount of objective points as well)!